Prediabetes Can liver dump be in the middle of the day too? I am confused of my measurings.

[Seda0]

Hello, I, (34yo female) was diagnosed with reactive hypoglycemia years ago (having a mother typeII diabetes) fairly symptomless I didn't cared about much until now. (because of other health issues in my life having precedence). in the last weeks I got excessive fatigue after certain meals (to my surprise the redmeat involved ones) to the point I need another sleep at the middle of the day! so I started to measure my blood glucose levels with eating more mindfully. seeing numbers 1hr and 2 hour after meals like 185mg/dl and 165mg/dl I never knew I had before and most of the time 2nd hour measurement is higher than the 1st hour and seeing very weird fluctuations and weird measurements like in the below Which got me very puzzled as I started learning about Diabetes very new.

Here is an example from today which my questions will be in it:

1st of June

Last measurement before bed is: 95mg/dl
before measurement ate a carbonhydrate rich food (2 bananas and some plain cereals with milk)
__________________
2nd of June (TODAY)
after 14 hour of fasting from last night my blood glucose was: 122mg/dl (so First Question: is this LIVER dump?)
then I only drink water and measure 1 hour after, my glucose was 73mg/dl. Somehow my body reminded to cover this blood glucose for late? and pump insulin it seems at this point yeah? Or how did it happen? Confused again here.

2 hours later (16th hour of waterfasting)
I ate: 1 boiled egg, some crackers and 2 slices of white cheese (75+185+120kcal)
Blood Glucose levels:
15min after eating: 83mg/dl
1hr after eating: 70mg/dl
2nd hour after eating: 61mg/dl *** This puzled me again since I have no idea what triggers this much insulin.

when I saw 61mg/dl I drank 450ml Milk Kefir (homemade)

15min after Kefir: 66mg/dl
30min after Kefir: 83mg/dl
1hr20min after KEfir: 87mg/dl
2hr after Kefir: 83mg/dl
3hr after Kefir: 121mg/dl *** (is this another Liver dump again now?) <<< Second Question
then I took a 50min of walking for groceriers when I turned back
4hr after Kefir + walk: 91mg/dl


so, How would you interpret this? It looked Like kefir made me go 2.5 hours and at the 3rd hour my glucose started to rise again because? Another Liver Dump? I am so confused about my overall readings fluctuating 60mgs to 185mgs on different days. I am not on any medications by the way.

 

[Lamont D]

Hello, I, (34yo female) was diagnosed with reactive hypoglycemia years ago (having a mother typeII diabetes) fairly symptomless I didn't cared about much until now. (because of other health issues in my life having precedence). in the last weeks I got excessive fatigue after certain meals (to my surprise the redmeat involved ones) to the point I need another sleep at the middle of the day! so I started to measure my blood glucose levels with eating more mindfully. seeing numbers 1hr and 2 hour after meals like 185mg/dl and 165mg/dl I never knew I had before and most of the time 2nd hour measurement is higher than the 1st hour and seeing very weird fluctuations and weird measurements like in the below Which got me very puzzled as I started learning about Diabetes very new.

Here is an example from today which my questions will be in it:

1st of June

Last measurement before bed is: 95mg/dl
before measurement ate a carbonhydrate rich food (2 bananas and some plain cereals with milk)
__________________
2nd of June (TODAY)
after 14 hour of fasting from last night my blood glucose was: 122mg/dl (so First Question: is this LIVER dump?)
then I only drink water and measure 1 hour after, my glucose was 73mg/dl. Somehow my body reminded to cover this blood glucose for late? and pump insulin it seems at this point yeah? Or how did it happen? Confused again here.

2 hours later (16th hour of waterfasting)
I ate: 1 boiled egg, some crackers and 2 slices of white cheese (75+185+120kcal)
Blood Glucose levels:
15min after eating: 83mg/dl
1hr after eating: 70mg/dl
2nd hour after eating: 61mg/dl *** This puzled me again since I have no idea what triggers this much insulin.

when I saw 61mg/dl I drank 450ml Milk Kefir (homemade)

15min after Kefir: 66mg/dl
30min after Kefir: 83mg/dl
1hr20min after KEfir: 87mg/dl
2hr after Kefir: 83mg/dl
3hr after Kefir: 121mg/dl *** (is this another Liver dump again now?) <<< Second Question
then I took a 50min of walking for groceriers when I turned back
4hr after Kefir + walk: 91mg/dl


so, How would you interpret this? It looked Like kefir made me go 2.5 hours and at the 3rd hour my glucose started to rise again because? Another Liver Dump? I am so confused about my overall readings fluctuating 60mgs to 185mgs on different days. I am not on any medications by the way.

Hi @Seda0

Welcome to the forum.

Your blood glucose levels are classic RH.

If not in control of your levels, for some time the residual amounts of insulin, glucose and insulin resistance are bound to make your blood levels fluctuate wildly.
It does seem that your are still trying to work out how to get to grips with your RH!
The advice out there is not great and because of lack of research and endocrinologist not certain how food affects us so much. And our own individual tolerance to certain types of foods namely carbs and sugars,

Please read the the sticky in the RH forum as this will give you a clue, what we all face.

What tests have you had to diagnose RH?
What sort of dietary advice is have you had?

And, yes, it could have been a liver dump.

What happens with RH.
Well, you eat what everyone would consider a healthy meal. Including carbs.
Your blood is already awash with insulin and glucose, too much. Your digestion causes more glucose and your blood levels rise quickly because the balance is in favour of glucose. The insulin resistance will exacerbate the imbalance in your body.
As it is digested the trigger for your second insulin response goes into overshoot.
That's why you get really low blood levels.
You eat because your body, brain, blood is deprived of glucose and the viscous circle continues.
Uncontrolled reactive hypoglycaemia.

I've been there and now have really good control of my condition.
It is possible.

Keep asking,

Best wishes and welcome to the forum.

 

[Seda0]

Thank you for welcoming me and for your valuable repy! Sorry for seeing it late and responding now. (I cannot login to the site from mobile for some reason. weird.)

I never had extensive tests before nor I was monitoring my glucose levels and to be honest I wasn't watching myself strictly either. Now this has changed.

Diagnosis was doctor's interpretation after A1c test showing very lower than normal values. (it was years ago couldn't find the results now and not remembering) But I wasn't having any consequences of it back then (as I was aware of). ((until now))

Dietary Advice was following a diabetic diet template with 3 middle snacks and 3 main meals. I wasn't following that too.

My fasting blood glucose in the past years was always at 70's or 80's the most in the unrelated hospital visits. So seeing it 122 for the first time is worrisome. And 2 days ago while measuring compulsively I even saw it at 250 in the first 5 minutes after meal. (when I had a large portion of pasta) It was so much worrying. Going to check with doctor in the following week maybe i will get more extensive tests this time.

Thank you for your reply again. going to read the article now! Right away...

 

[Lamont D]

Thank you for welcoming me and for your valuable repy! Sorry for seeing it late and responding now. (I cannot login to the site from mobile for some reason. weird.)

I never had extensive tests before nor I was monitoring my glucose levels and to be honest I wasn't watching myself strictly either. Now this has changed.

Diagnosis was doctor's interpretation after A1c test showing very lower than normal values. (it was years ago couldn't find the results now and not remembering) But I wasn't having any consequences of it back then (as I was aware of). ((until now))

Dietary Advice was following a diabetic diet template with 3 middle snacks and 3 main meals. I wasn't following that too.

My fasting blood glucose in the past years was always at 70's or 80's the most in the unrelated hospital visits. So seeing it 122 for the first time is worrisome. And 2 days ago while measuring compulsively I even saw it at 250 in the first 5 minutes after meal. (when I had a large portion of pasta) It was so much worrying. Going to check with doctor in the following week maybe i will get more extensive tests this time.

Thank you for your reply again. going to read the article now! Right away...

Hi again.
If your doctor was concerned and giving you a courtesy diagnosis of RH, why didn't he refer you to a specialist endocrinologist?
The tests needed for definitive diagnosis can only be done in hospital.
You do need to stop with the carbs, pasta is not a good option. Even the whole wheat version, nor is wheat! Start thinking in terms that what raises your blood levels is not viable!

Educate yourself, that is the most important thing at the moment.
RH is dietary controlled and knowledge of the food that makes you ill is best to stay away from!

Keep asking, best wishes.

 

[DCUKMod]

Hello, I, (34yo female) was diagnosed with reactive hypoglycemia years ago (having a mother typeII diabetes) fairly symptomless I didn't cared about much until now. (because of other health issues in my life having precedence). in the last weeks I got excessive fatigue after certain meals (to my surprise the redmeat involved ones) to the point I need another sleep at the middle of the day! so I started to measure my blood glucose levels with eating more mindfully. seeing numbers 1hr and 2 hour after meals like 185mg/dl and 165mg/dl I never knew I had before and most of the time 2nd hour measurement is higher than the 1st hour and seeing very weird fluctuations and weird measurements like in the below Which got me very puzzled as I started learning about Diabetes very new.

Here is an example from today which my questions will be in it:

1st of June

Last measurement before bed is: 95mg/dl
before measurement ate a carbonhydrate rich food (2 bananas and some plain cereals with milk)
__________________
2nd of June (TODAY)
after 14 hour of fasting from last night my blood glucose was: 122mg/dl (so First Question: is this LIVER dump?)
then I only drink water and measure 1 hour after, my glucose was 73mg/dl. Somehow my body reminded to cover this blood glucose for late? and pump insulin it seems at this point yeah? Or how did it happen? Confused again here.

2 hours later (16th hour of waterfasting)
I ate: 1 boiled egg, some crackers and 2 slices of white cheese (75+185+120kcal)
Blood Glucose levels:
15min after eating: 83mg/dl
1hr after eating: 70mg/dl
2nd hour after eating: 61mg/dl *** This puzled me again since I have no idea what triggers this much insulin.

when I saw 61mg/dl I drank 450ml Milk Kefir (homemade)

15min after Kefir: 66mg/dl
30min after Kefir: 83mg/dl
1hr20min after KEfir: 87mg/dl
2hr after Kefir: 83mg/dl
3hr after Kefir: 121mg/dl *** (is this another Liver dump again now?) <<< Second Question
then I took a 50min of walking for groceriers when I turned back
4hr after Kefir + walk: 91mg/dl


so, How would you interpret this? It looked Like kefir made me go 2.5 hours and at the 3rd hour my glucose started to rise again because? Another Liver Dump? I am so confused about my overall readings fluctuating 60mgs to 185mgs on different days. I am not on any medications by the way.

Seda0 - Hello. We have a number of members who have reactive hypoglycaemia, but I'll tag @Brunneria who is also a wealth of information.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi @Seda0
sorry it has taken so long to post this.

There is a lot going on in your post, so I will try and take it step by step

Hello, I, (34yo female) was diagnosed with reactive hypoglycemia years ago (having a mother typeII diabetes) fairly symptomless I didn't cared about much until now. (because of other health issues in my life having precedence). in the last weeks I got excessive fatigue after certain meals (to my surprise the redmeat involved ones) to the point I need another sleep at the middle of the day! so I started to measure my blood glucose levels with eating more mindfully. seeing numbers 1hr and 2 hour after meals like 185mg/dl and 165mg/dl I never knew I had before and most of the time 2nd hour measurement is higher than the 1st hour and seeing very weird fluctuations and weird measurements like in the below Which got me very puzzled as I started learning about Diabetes very new.

Readings of 185-165mg/dl are considered normal, by a lot of people, including some medical professionals.

My opinion (speaking as a non-medically qualified Reactive Hypoglycaemic) is that it is worth discovering how fast your blood glucose drops after the peak. I find that the faster it drops, the more likely you are to have over-produced insulin, and the more likely you are to hypo. Sometimes it is worth testing more frequently than at 1 or 2 hours, to find things out.

In my case, the more carb I eat, the higher the spike, and the sharper the drop, when the insulin kicks in.

1st of June

Last measurement before bed is: 95mg/dl
before measurement ate a carbonhydrate rich food (2 bananas and some plain cereals with milk)

I'm afraid that unless we know your readings before AND after food like this, we have no idea how high the banana/cereal meal sent you, or whether you had a low afterwards. If you ate these before bed, your blood glucose will have been doing its thing while you were asleep. In my case, carbs at that time of night might well cause disturbed sleep, night sweats, nightmares, and waking up feeling grotty. Not everyone has these experiences, of course, and I envy them!

2nd of June (TODAY)
after 14 hour of fasting from last night my blood glucose was: 122mg/dl (so First Question: is this LIVER dump?)

Could be. Have you heard of Dawn Phenomenon?
It is a perfectly normal thing, but in people with glucose intolerance, things can get rather out of wack. There are lots of different options to try, from eating less carb the night before, to snacking before getting out of bed in the morning, etc. etc. People tend to vary greatly in their response to these things, so worth doing some reading, and some experimenting to see what works for you.

then I only drink water and measure 1 hour after, my glucose was 73mg/dl. Somehow my body reminded to cover this blood glucose for late? and pump insulin it seems at this point yeah? Or how did it happen? Confused again here.

Glucose levels rise and drop for a lot of different reasons. insulin plays a part, but then so do climbing stairs, moving around, stress levels, getting ready for work, etc. etc. It may just be that your normal morning activities used up some of the glucose in your bloodstream.

2 hours later (16th hour of waterfasting)
I ate: 1 boiled egg, some crackers and 2 slices of white cheese (75+185+120kcal)
Blood Glucose levels:
15min after eating: 83mg/dl
1hr after eating: 70mg/dl
2nd hour after eating: 61mg/dl *** This puzled me again since I have no idea what triggers this much insulin.

83 and 70 are in the healthy normal range (they equate to 4.5mmol/l and 3.8mmol/l in British blood glucose units).
Insulin using diabetics consider '4 is the floor' which means they consider blood glucose under 4mmol/l should be treated as a hypo. But for non-diabetics, being in the 3s can be perfectly normal and not needing any treatment.

Consequently, your reading of 61mg/dl would be considered a hypo (it equates to 3.3mmol/l) if you were diabetic, and the low end of normal if you aren't. Personally, I would have a low carb snack at that point. Something like nuts, a mouthful of kefir, a couple of squares of dark chocolate. Diabetics tend to eat sugar (jellybabies or lucozade or similar) at that point, but I prefer slower release foods. I also try and eat them before I hit the low numbers, because I feel better if I never go too low.

If your body works like mine, then it looks like those crackers you ate were too high carb, or your portion size was too big, and you went up and then dropped down again. You may have had a bigger spike in the first hour, that isn't shown on your readings.

when I saw 61mg/dl I drank 450ml Milk Kefir (homemade)

15min after Kefir: 66mg/dl
30min after Kefir: 83mg/dl
1hr20min after KEfir: 87mg/dl
2hr after Kefir: 83mg/dl

I have tried kefir too, and found it be excellent in stopping a hypo, and in stabilising my blood glucose for a while.

3hr after Kefir: 121mg/dl *** (is this another Liver dump again now?) <<< Second Question
then I took a 50min of walking for groceriers when I turned back
4hr after Kefir + walk: 91mg/dl

I think you would need to do a bit more investigation to answer your second question.
It could have been a liver dump, or it could all depend on how much kefir you had...

I am so confused about my overall readings fluctuating 60mgs to 185mgs on different days. I am not on any medications by the way.

I think the more testing you do, and the more you get to know your own body's reaction to food, stress, exercise, etc. then the more you will understand.

It is very easy to see numbers of 185 and 61 and think that terrible things are happening, because the difference between the numbers is so big. But these are both within the range for 'normal' people, because it is perfectly normal for blood glucose to rise and fall with food. It happens daily, after every meal, to some extent.

However, as a Reactive Hypoglycaemic, it is important to realise that the more steady we keep our blood glucose, the better we feel. And the faster our blood glucose rises and falls, the worse we feel. So if you can identify and avoid the foods (bananas, cereal, crackers) that send your blood glucose up so quickly, then it won't fall so fast afterwards, and you can learn to avoid the hypos.

Hope that helps!