Diabetes and liver problems

[Annb]

I've been as close as possible to zero carbing (obviously not actually possible) for the last 3 weeks and my sugars are really excellent now - even a bit on the low side, so I'm reducing insulin even faster now to keep within range. I hope to get insulin so low that it no longer keeps my weight up because the extra 7 stone I am carrying plays havoc with my other health issues.

I finished my course of antibiotics so started on the recommended artichoke pills - no ill effects during this trial week so tomorrow I will add the sasarparilla pills and see what happens. Clearly I won't see results yet in terms of liver repair, but as long as I continue to feel fitter (which I already do) I'll keep going.

Today, though, for some odd reason I started thinking about a bacon roll - haven't had one since I retired 8 years ago but suddenly felt the urge - no bread or rolls in the house, so I couldn't - just as well. Then I thought longingly about a chip butty - I've never had one of those in my life - no spuds and no bread, so nothing doing. I tell myself I didn't really want one anyway. I did have the urge to sneak one of the chocolate biscuits I keep as very occasional treats for the grandchildren, but I was good - I don't actually like them, but I do crave them.

Whatever the effect of low carbing on my liver, it is clearly helping something, so I'll keep it up for the forseeable future. Since I have a problem with fats, I have been eating lean meat and last week got my son to take me to the town - 7 miles away since I couldn't drive or walk (arthritis) and I went to a good butcher where, amongst other things I bought a single rib of beef for roasting - some for dinner that night and the rest to have as cold meat - it was quite a large piece of meat for one person and I was really looking forward to it. Cooked it to perfection, sliced some off - onto the plate with vegetables - beef jus poured over it, but I couldn't eat it. My stomach just said no! I had to give it all to my son's wife to do something with it because I knew that I wouldn't be able to look at beef again for months now. Back to the eggs, chicken and ham I suppose. Can't get edible fish out here in the villages and can't get into town to get my own. That's one problem of living in a fairly isolated place - our village shop is a lifesaver but doesn't stock much of a range and costs about twice as much as shops in the town. And I'm getting a bit bored of the lovely, locally produced, free range eggs. I mean, how many eggs can you eat in a day?

Keep well all. I hope to join you in that happy state sometime soon.

Ann

 

[Kristin251]

I've been as close as possible to zero carbing (obviously not actually possible) for the last 3 weeks and my sugars are really excellent now - even a bit on the low side, so I'm reducing insulin even faster now to keep within range. I hope to get insulin so low that it no longer keeps my weight up because the extra 7 stone I am carrying plays havoc with my other health issues.

I finished my course of antibiotics so started on the recommended artichoke pills - no ill effects during this trial week so tomorrow I will add the sasarparilla pills and see what happens. Clearly I won't see results yet in terms of liver repair, but as long as I continue to feel fitter (which I already do) I'll keep going.

Today, though, for some odd reason I started thinking about a bacon roll - haven't had one since I retired 8 years ago but suddenly felt the urge - no bread or rolls in the house, so I couldn't - just as well. Then I thought longingly about a chip butty - I've never had one of those in my life - no spuds and no bread, so nothing doing. I tell myself I didn't really want one anyway. I did have the urge to sneak one of the chocolate biscuits I keep as very occasional treats for the grandchildren, but I was good - I don't actually like them, but I do crave them.

Whatever the effect of low carbing on my liver, it is clearly helping something, so I'll keep it up for the forseeable future. Since I have a problem with fats, I have been eating lean meat and last week got my son to take me to the town - 7 miles away since I couldn't drive or walk (arthritis) and I went to a good butcher where, amongst other things I bought a single rib of beef for roasting - some for dinner that night and the rest to have as cold meat - it was quite a large piece of meat for one person and I was really looking forward to it. Cooked it to perfection, sliced some off - onto the plate with vegetables - beef jus poured over it, but I couldn't eat it. My stomach just said no! I had to give it all to my son's wife to do something with it because I knew that I wouldn't be able to look at beef again for months now. Back to the eggs, chicken and ham I suppose. Can't get edible fish out here in the villages and can't get into town to get my own. That's one problem of living in a fairly isolated place - our village shop is a lifesaver but doesn't stock much of a range and costs about twice as much as shops in the town. And I'm getting a bit bored of the lovely, locally produced, free range eggs. I mean, how many eggs can you eat in a day?

Keep well all. I hope to join you in that happy state sometime soon.

Ann

Hi Ann!! I still have my gallbladder but to be honest different fats digest different. Animal fats are harder to break down. Have you tried avocado? Canned tuna or salmon is small amounts for omega 3's? Are nuts and seeds ok in small amounts? A Small piece of cheese here and there? I do well with protein and PLANT fats but never in large quantities. Low carb high fat is more about the lower carb percentages and higher fat percentages rather than gobbling fat. I eat 80% fat but it's hardly a high fat diet.

Good luck with sarsaparilla and artichoke. Best blood and liver purifier ever. No need to overdose. Work up gradually as is best for most things

 

[zand]

Not sure if it's the same for you, but I discovered that those bacon roll cravings could be curbed by putting a little butter onto the bacon.

You're doing really well Ann

 

[Annb]

Hi Ann!! I still have my gallbladder but to be honest different fats digest different. Animal fats are harder to break down. Have you tried avocado? Canned tuna or salmon is small amounts for omega 3's? Are nuts and seeds ok in small amounts? A Small piece of cheese here and there? I do well with protein and PLANT fats but never in large quantities. Low carb high fat is more about the lower carb percentages and higher fat percentages rather than gobbling fat. I eat 80% fat but it's hardly a high fat diet.

Good luck with sarsaparilla and artichoke. Best blood and liver purifier ever. No need to overdose. Work up gradually as is best for most things

Actually - the bit about lack of protein variety was tongue in cheek. I do eat a little cheddar cheese, but my stomach doesn't like it much. I eat cottage cheese, but the shop only stocks low fat. I have to add cream or yoghurt to make it palatable last time I did that I was sick for the rest of the day.

Never managed to eat tinned salmon or tuna without my stomach objecting, but I do get "fresh" salmon delivered once in a while. Despite living on an island, fresh fish is hard to come by - it all gets exported or sold in a Saturday market in the town - which I can't get to.

I'm eating more and more avocado these days and I use olive oil to lubricate the pan for frying things like eggs and bacon. I also eat a few pork sausages - one pack of 8 lasts a week or so (I prefer the cheaper ones - not the butchers' choice type of thing, so there will be more carb in them than in other types). Strangely I can eat sardines in oil, but can't get them in olive oil so have to use the sunflower oil variety. I do have an issue with nuts and seeds (actually most nuts make me quite ill) although I can take peanuts and cashews and some pistachios.

I treat myself with my favourite drink of what I call "lemon fizz" - 2 tbsp lemon juice, 4 tbsp apple juice topped up to 300 ml with soda water. Probably not good for me, but I only have it about 3 times a week.

Anyway, so far so good - just about to take the first sarsaparilla capsule.

Ann

 

[Annb]

Not sure if it's the same for you, but I discovered that those bacon roll cravings could be curbed by putting a little butter onto the bacon.

You're doing really well Ann

I find that the best thing for me is just to tell myself that I can do without it - giving in would be more like giving an inch and taking a mile, because I wouldn't want to stop there. I suppose I'm a masochist. I would quite like to reach the stage my son is at - he has Crohn's disease and because of serious allergies, can't take the prescribed medication so treats it himself with diet - quite successfully. He now treats food just as fuel and eats when he needs refuelling, but not for enjoyment - that's because his diet is so restricted. A bit sad really, but I could do with a bit of that myself.

Ann

 

[zand]

he eats when he needs refuelling, but not for enjoyment ...I could do with a bit of that myself.

I think that's what we should all do really. I often see food as just fuel too until I have something I really like.

 

[ringi]

Have you tried frozen fish?

 

[Annb]

Have you tried frozen fish?

Yes - I have some from a supermarket in the freezer. Had one fish out of the pack and it was so awful that I've left the rest in the box and wouldn't want to eat it. I used to get fish fingers when our sons were young but latterly they became more coating and less fish, tasteless and hardly worth eating. The same applies to other prepared fish dishes. I used to love fish but can't get the quality or variety that I used to.

Salmon is available, but boring after a while and it's expensive; as is most "fresh" fish. I looked online for my favourite, dog fish which the fishermen here throw back as worthless. It was being sold for £15+ per kilo. And it wouldn't have been fresh. I didn't bother.

Just had a banana to lift my BS - the only one left in the house and I was supposed to be keeping it for my granddaughter. Ah well. Try to be stronger tomorrow.

Ann

 

[Kristin251]

Actually - the bit about lack of protein variety was tongue in cheek. I do eat a little cheddar cheese, but my stomach doesn't like it much. I eat cottage cheese, but the shop only stocks low fat. I have to add cream or yoghurt to make it palatable last time I did that I was sick for the rest of the day.

Never managed to eat tinned salmon or tuna without my stomach objecting, but I do get "fresh" salmon delivered once in a while. Despite living on an island, fresh fish is hard to come by - it all gets exported or sold in a Saturday market in the town - which I can't get to.

I'm eating more and more avocado these days and I use olive oil to lubricate the pan for frying things like eggs and bacon. I also eat a few pork sausages - one pack of 8 lasts a week or so (I prefer the cheaper ones - not the butchers' choice type of thing, so there will be more carb in them than in other types). Strangely I can eat sardines in oil, but can't get them in olive oil so have to use the sunflower oil variety. I do have an issue with nuts and seeds (actually most nuts make me quite ill) although I can take peanuts and cashews and some pistachios.

I treat myself with my favourite drink of what I call "lemon fizz" - 2 tbsp lemon juice, 4 tbsp apple juice topped up to 300 ml with soda water. Probably not good for me, but I only have it about 3 times a week.

Anyway, so far so good - just about to take the first sarsaparilla capsule.

Ann

Dairy can certainly cause issues of all Linda for people. I can tolerates small amounts of some cheeses but not others. No liguidy ones like milk, cream, sour cream, cream cheese, cottage cheese. Though I love them all. Nor do I tolerate very aged cheese like Parmesan, Romano, pecorino. I do however tolerate semi soft like Brie, Colby jack, pepperjack. Maybe play around with the dairy choices. You don't HAVE to eat dairy. I went for many years without any but recently added an ounce back in with my wine at the end of the day. That's my treat. Haha.

If you're eating avocado, bacon, oil, sausages with fat you're probably getting enough. My fat in a day is a whole avocado ( not at one sitting), some olive oil drizzled ( about a tsp ) on a small salad, mayo on different proteins like tuna or egg ( one T) and about an ounce of nuts, again not in one sitting. They are my snacks and I'll have a Mac or two, 2 pecans, a pinch of pumpkin seeds multiple times through the day. A few olives as well. My proteins are lean as I don't do well with lots of animal fats. I MUST eat small meals regardless of what it is or the tummy bucks up.

I'm kinda like your son. Limited diet and eat to live. However I eat NOTHING that doesn't taste good.
There's nothing wrong with chicken turkey egg if you don't like or can't source fish.
Other than the apple juice I do the same with lemon in sparking water.

I hope the sarsaparilla works out! Did you get artichoke as well? It's the combination of the two that work their magic. As a side benefit, for me anyway, when you take them with alcohol you literally have zero hangover. This just says they clean the liver! There was a company that sold them for just that reason.

 

[Annb]

Yes I did get the artichoke and have been taking it for a week with no ill effects so now I am adding the sarsaparilla and I'll see what effect the combination has. My insulin dosage is dropping - gone from 30/30/30/78 to 12/0/10/70 over the last couple of weeks. It can't be bad. Not worried about the alcohol - I'm a lifelong teetotaller, which is why I felt aggrieved about the cirrhosis diagnosis. I realise now that this form of liver disease has nothing to do with alcohol, but someone might have warned me! Joke!

Ann

 

[Kristin251]

Yes I did get the artichoke and have been taking it for a week with no ill effects so now I am adding the sarsaparilla and I'll see what effect the combination has. My insulin dosage is dropping - gone from 30/30/30/78 to 12/0/10/70 over the last couple of weeks. It can't be bad. Not worried about the alcohol - I'm a lifelong teetotaller, which is why I felt aggrieved about the cirrhosis diagnosis. I realise now that this form of liver disease has nothing to do with alcohol, but someone might have warned me! Joke!

Ann

I have to ask a personal question. Feel free to not answer. Has your elimination changed?
I stopped taking them but going to start again.

Which ones did you get and how much are you taking?

Sounds like few hypos!

 

[Annb]

No - no changes. Such problems as I have are caused by metformin and 2 diuretics (Spironolactone and Furosimide). The new pills haven't had any effect.

The artichoke extract is from "Fair and Pure" German label which is a pity since my German is very rusty and there's a lot there that I can't make out. The sasarparilla is from "Health Aid". I don't find either label very helpful and I'm just playing it by ear.

Ann

 

[Kristin251]

No - no changes. Such problems as I have are caused by metformin and 2 diuretics (Spironolactone and Furosimide). The new pills haven't had any effect.

The artichoke extract is from "Fair and Pure" German label which is a pity since my German is very rusty and there's a lot there that I can't make out. The sasarparilla is from "Health Aid". I don't find either label very helpful and I'm just playing it by ear.

Ann

HA! I finally found the thread.
How is the artichoke working out ? Still needing reduced insulin??
I got some and now I'm having some hypos. Too soon to confirm but looking suspicious haha.
I'm taking 3 a day from swamsonvitamins.

Any thing else you're noticing?

 

[Indy51]

A new tweet from our own @Southport GP on a GGT/low carb study in his practice:

https://twitter.com/lowcarbGP/status/899335584019345408

 

[lindisfel]

It seems a bit odd Ann they have put you a potassium sparing diuretic and
non potassium sparing diuretic? You realized that spironolactone is given to reduce the effects of aldosterone holding on to sodium? If you were able to cut down on sodium you probably would correct your bp with just the Spironolactone. I was once on three bp meds and now I am just on Eplerenone. Re: another potassium sparing aldosterone antagonist. You know that spironolactone often affects male and female hormones?
regards Derek

 

[Annb]

HA! I finally found the thread.
How is the artichoke working out ? Still needing reduced insulin??
I got some and now I'm having some hypos. Too soon to confirm but looking suspicious haha.
I'm taking 3 a day from swamsonvitamins.

Any thing else you're noticing?

Yes - I find it difficult to find the threads sometimes.

No obvious problems with the artichoke extract, but I am only taking one a day as yet. I tried adding in the sarsaparilla - just one tablet and found the small pain I usually have around where my gall bladder used to be became much more serious so - just in case - I didn't take any more for a week and the symptom improved, more or less back to normal. Then, yesterday, I tried again with one sarsaparilla tablet and the pain was excruciating for most of the day. So - none today. I'll give it another week and try again and see what happens. No more drops to hypo level, although some readings down to 4.

Strange thing is, I used to be aware around 4.5 that the level was dropping because my hands would start to shake. That doesn't happen any more and I can be well down in the 3s before I can tell.

Also noticed the last couple of days the readings have been higher - between 8 and 10 around 10 or 11 o'clock and I have been very hungry. Not sure if I am having larger portions because I am hungry or if something else is going on. At 10 am today I did have breakfast of cottage cheese rolled up in thin slices of ham (3 and then another 2 to fill the bottomless pit of my stomach). It didn't so I gave up and went hungry. Right now at 3.50 pm it's at 7.2 - no lunch yet either. Might have to put the insulin up again - I took 12 units of Humilin S before breakfast.

It's a bit disconcerting because I thought I was finally getting it right. I did lose a couple of pounds in weight last week though, so it's not all bad

It's good to "talk" otherwise I might just give in and eat.

Ann

 

[Annb]

It seems a bit odd Ann they have put you a potassium sparing diuretic and
non potassium sparing diuretic? You realized that spironolactone is given to reduce the effects of aldosterone holding on to sodium? If you were able to cut down on sodium you probably would correct your bp with just the Spironolactone. I was once on three bp meds and now I am just on Eplerenone. Re: another potassium sparing aldosterone antagonist. You know that spironolactone often affects male and female hormones?
regards Derek

I hadn't realised that one of my diuretics was non potassium sparing. Actually, the only thing I have salt in is processed meats (bacon, ham, sausages). I have never really enjoyed anything salted. No - I wasn't aware of the possible effect of spironolactone on hormones. Still, I'm too old to worry about female hormones any more. Having enough trouble with parathyroid issues just now and I seem to be turning into a man (not really but I think, with old age, male and female become less distinguishable - certainly my husband, who has been on his death bed for the last 7 years, has become much less masculine, probably due to hormone treatment for prostate cancer.)

Hey ho, all part of life's rich tapestry. When we made promises all those years ago about better, worse, sickness and health, neither of us realised just how sick or how bad the worse could be. We're still here though and struggling on. Maybe I should cut out the processed meats as well as the carbs.

Ann

 

[Kristin251]

Yes - I find it difficult to find the threads sometimes.

No obvious problems with the artichoke extract, but I am only taking one a day as yet. I tried adding in the sarsaparilla - just one tablet and found the small pain I usually have around where my gall bladder used to be became much more serious so - just in case - I didn't take any more for a week and the symptom improved, more or less back to normal. Then, yesterday, I tried again with one sarsaparilla tablet and the pain was excruciating for most of the day. So - none today. I'll give it another week and try again and see what happens. No more drops to hypo level, although some readings down to 4.

Strange thing is, I used to be aware around 4.5 that the level was dropping because my hands would start to shake. That doesn't happen any more and I can be well down in the 3s before I can tell.

Also noticed the last couple of days the readings have been higher - between 8 and 10 around 10 or 11 o'clock and I have been very hungry. Not sure if I am having larger portions because I am hungry or if something else is going on. At 10 am today I did have breakfast of cottage cheese rolled up in thin slices of ham (3 and then another 2 to fill the bottomless pit of my stomach). It didn't so I gave up and went hungry. Right now at 3.50 pm it's at 7.2 - no lunch yet either. Might have to put the insulin up again - I took 12 units of Humilin S before breakfast.

It's a bit disconcerting because I thought I was finally getting it right. I did lose a couple of pounds in weight last week though, so it's not all bad

It's good to "talk" otherwise I might just give in and eat.

Ann

Hmm... I was googling sarsaparilla and decided to pass. There was something about kidneys ( I have / had stones) and some other contraindications but I don't remember if gallbladder was included.

I've been taking 3-4 day after just one the first two days. It has stopped or at least reigned in my DP. As well as my morning rise. I'm always going to take one before bed and one with bf. You may not be taking enough. Is pass on the sarsaparilla for now and just stick with artichoke. See if one before bed and one with bf helps. One is usually for recommended for maintenance but when addressing an issue more are usually required. I can tell my liver isn't detoxing a bit.

Funny about the hunger as I'm not hungry. I just eat because my insulin runs out as lantus is no where to be seen. I used to start rising around two hours and now it's more like 3. I always needed a dose an hour after bf to stop the morning rise. Now my initial dose is dropping me a bit and I don't start rising for 2 hours. This is happening for 4 days ever since I upped my dose. If you have live tissues I would up yours rather than take a maintainence dose.

Is that your normal bf? I would be hungry with the carbs in the cottage cheese. I smash and roll up avo in chicken or turkey

At 7.2 I think I'd be hungry. Sometimes I just FEEL like I need insulin and test. Most often I need a small correction and soon feel better. I also prebolus 20 min before bf.

Is your insulin requirements still lower even if you have to up it a bit ?

It is nice comparing. I was wondering how you were getting on.

 

[Annb]

I have often wondered if all this fatty liver problem has anything to do with a bout of hepatitis A I had in 1972. There was a minor epidemic of it in Dumbarton apparently at that time. Don't know how I got it but felt awful for about a week. No treatment and the doctor didn't seem too bothered - "There's a lot of it about at the moment" was all he had to say. I did ask a GP here in the Western Isles when we moved here in 1974 if there might be any ill effects and he took a blood sample and reassured me that there was nothing wrong with my liver. But I still wonder...

 

[Kristin251]

I have often wondered if all this fatty liver problem has anything to do with a bout of hepatitis A I had in 1972. There was a minor epidemic of it in Dumbarton apparently at that time. Don't know how I got it but felt awful for about a week. No treatment and the doctor didn't seem too bothered - "There's a lot of it about at the moment" was all he had to say. I did ask a GP here in the Western Isles when we moved here in 1974 if there might be any ill effects and he took a blood sample and reassured me that there was nothing wrong with my liver. But I still wonder...

I wonder if a nasty virus I had led me to type 1. Guess I'll never know.
I just think anything that helps the live is a good thing. And I can tell artichoke is. I boarded it yesterday as it was not only on sale but buy one get one free. I did loads of research on dosing and I'm very comfortable even if I take 4. It would just get expensive!! My liver tests have all been normal, knock on wood, but I do have a cocktail or two every night so a little help can't hurt. I feel no negative side effects.

The lower bs could just be a whimsical diabetes thing but this DP and much slower morning rise has never happened so I do believe it's artichoke. The first two days I on,y took one and really didn't notice anything. It was after I bumped up that it became apparent.