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Does anyone on high fat low carb diet find they need MORE insulin?

J

JudeCo

Newbie
Messages
2
Type of diabetes
Type 1
I've tried to eat a very low calorie diet, which means virtually no fat, and I lost a bit of weight but not much.

Then I just tried 'sensible' eating, again with not much fat, just cutting most things down a bit. No real impact.

Now I'm on a hgh fat low carb diet I'm losing weight quite quickly, but have found I need more insulin than I used to take, not less which was what I expected. 4 units more lantus per day and about (20 - 24) and nearly twice as much novorapid 3 times a day (3 - 5 and occasionally another 2 because BS so high).

Has anyone else experienced this or any explanation why it might be happening?
 
Low carb diets can increase insulin resistance. Which is a bit of a pain for type 1s.
 
I take pretty much the same insulin on low carb as I was taking before, although at different time because I bolus for protein on a low carb diet, this is usually a delayed bolus.

If you are very low carb your body will decide it needs to get its glucose from an alternative source, it will do this by turning some of the protein you are eating into glucose by a process called gluconogenesis. Guconogenesis can take a few bours after eating. And it's often unpredictable how much of the protein will turn into glucose.

If you are high fat then you also need to bear in mind that high fat meals will often need more insulin, because the fat causes insulin resistance.

Low carbing has done nothing to reduce my TDD.

If I was to go back to normal carb intake I would, at least temporarily, need significantly more insulin because low carbing has adversly impacted on my insulin sensitivity. Pre low carb I was 1:22, currently I am 1:15 but as I'm bolusing for protein and it's a bit hit and miss how much is needed for protein some of my protein bolus is, instead, probably covering carbs. On moderate/ normal carbs I would probably need at least 1:10, if not 1:5, and I'm far too anxious about dealing with likely spikes to try it at the moment, even though I would like to.
 
For me the TYPE of far matters. If I eat fatty animal protein I need more insulin but if I stick to plant fats like avocado, olive oil, may a sensible amount of nuts then no, I need less than carbs.

Animal fat doesn't work so well for me and makes me IR however plant fats don't. So I eat lean proteins in modest amounts and add some avocado, oil or mayo.
Have you possibly upped your protein during your change?

My motto is vlc, moderate protein and just enough fat to satisfy.
 
Kristin251 said:
For me the TYPE of far matters. If I eat fatty animal protein I need more insulin but if I stick to plant fats like avocado, olive oil, may a sensible amount of nuts then no, I need less than carbs.

Animal fat doesn't work so well for me and makes me IR however plant fats don't. So I eat lean proteins in modest amounts and add some avocado, oil or mayo.
Have you possibly upped your protein during your change?

My motto is vlc, moderate protein and just enough fat to satisfy.
Click to expand...

That's really helpful! Thank you so much, I shall try a couple of different strategies.
 
I take a similar amount of insulin now I eat lower carb, which initially surprised me, as I had thought my need for it would go down. Not the case, though - and I've learned so much on here about how to deal with protein.
 
Fatty protein slows my overnight bgs so I need less for breakfast.
So low carbing gives me a lower need of insulin. Not more.
Ive halved my 300units of insulin with low carbing. I was more insulin resistant on high carb diet.
 
JudeCo said:
That's really helpful! Thank you so much, I shall try a couple of different strategies.
Click to expand...
Example. Last night on a rare occasion we ate out. Hubby got a burger with cheese and bacon. I got a side salad. I ate the same amount of protein and limited the omga 6 dressing and needed 3 times the insulin than if I had an egg or tuna with mayo. I took twice my normal dose pre meal ( as I know what happens) then needed a correction bolus. Added an extra unit basal and still woke up high.
Now some white fish, turkey, chicken ( no skins) egg, shrimp I'd need 1\3 less with same sized portions of fat, protein and carbs. Tested this over and over. Some people aren't effected but nice to have something to pay attention to.
On the other hand, lamb chops with all visible fat cut off or lean beef slices are fine!! I certainly need my fat but the animal fat does me no good. Thank goodness I love avocado, mayo, garlic olive oil and nuts!!! Easier to digest too
 
Snapsy said:
I take a similar amount of insulin now I eat lower carb, which initially surprised me, as I had thought my need for it would go down. Not the case, though - and I've learned so much on here about how to deal with protein.
Click to expand...

Hi @Snapsy ! I hope you're well!!
How are you dealing with protein?
 
Kristin251 said:
Hi @Snapsy ! I hope you're well!!
How are you dealing with protein?
Click to expand...
Hi @Kristin251 ! All good, thanks!

My learning about protein is simply that it does make a difference to blood glucose that it simply didn't when I would eat a more starch-based diet. I can't give you an equation that I work from!

For instance, to cover a small bowl of porridge (20g CHO), in the old days, I would take 2u insulin if I wasn't swimming after, or 1u if I was. For two boiled eggs, which is what I have now instead of porridge, I take around 1.7u insulin. I tell my pump calculator to consider 2 eggs (when consumed, as I do, with no CHO), as containing 12g CHO. If my BS is 6.0, I'll have 1.7u - or more/less than that if my BS is higher/lower than that.

:)
 
Snapsy said:
Hi @Kristin251 ! All good, thanks!

My learning about protein is simply that it does make a difference to blood glucose that it simply didn't when I would eat a more starch-based diet. I can't give you an equation that I work from!

For instance, to cover a small bowl of porridge (20g CHO), in the old days, I would take 2u insulin if I wasn't swimming after, or 1u if I was. For two boiled eggs, which is what I have now instead of porridge, I take around 1.7u insulin. I tell my pump calculator to consider 2 eggs (when consumed, as I do, with no CHO), as containing 12g CHO. If my BS is 6.0, I'll have 1.7u - or more/less than that if my BS is higher/lower than that.

:)
Click to expand...
I had to re read that a couple times as in the US CHO is cholesterol haha. And it's morning!!!!

This is making sense that it's not the TYPE of diabetes that protein effect bg but rather the amount of carbs in the meal. I've seen many T2's starting out very low carb and not seeing results but when further asked they had replaced the carbs with protein rather than fat.

Here's what happens with me. If I just ate eggs, no carbs and no fiber I spike as high as if it were carbs. And it comes on fast. Now if I add some avocado ( sorry, avo is back again haha) that has a few carbs but lots of fiber I keep low and slow. I don't know if it's the fat, fiber or the few carbs. What ever it is, every time I eat a meal without it there's no telling what's going to happen!!

I wonder what would happen with you if you added one third of an avo to your eggs. Or replaced one egg if that would be too much food. Might be time to experiment!!!
 
I don't use insulin, so it might not be at all relevant, but if your change to low carb is fairly recent then you might see things changing after a while - I kept to the same foods for a few weeks, setting 10 percent carbs as a maximum for everyday foods, and then saw my average BG levels falling - plus my waist was shrinking.
I suspect that our metabolisms are complex systems and making a single change can have a cumulative effect as different cycles and levels adjust in response to it and then to eachother. As you are losing weight as well - I think it would be brave to make any sort of guess as to what is going on - other than 'a lot'.
 
catapillar said:
I take pretty much the same insulin on low carb as I was taking before, although at different time because I bolus for protein on a low carb diet, this is usually a delayed bolus.

If you are very low carb your body will decide it needs to get its glucose from an alternative source, it will do this by turning some of the protein you are eating into glucose by a process called gluconogenesis. Guconogenesis can take a few bours after eating. And it's often unpredictable how much of the protein will turn into glucose.

If you are high fat then you also need to bear in mind that high fat meals will often need more insulin, because the fat causes insulin resistance.

Low carbing has done nothing to reduce my TDD.

If I was to go back to normal carb intake I would, at least temporarily, need significantly more insulin because low carbing has adversly impacted on my insulin sensitivity. Pre low carb I was 1:22, currently I am 1:15 but as I'm bolusing for protein and it's a bit hit and miss how much is needed for protein some of my protein bolus is, instead, probably covering carbs. On moderate/ normal carbs I would probably need at least 1:10, if not 1:5, and I'm far too anxious about dealing with likely spikes to try it at the moment, even though I would like to.
Click to expand...
Do you find different fats act differently? Can you take a guess as to how much protein you eat in a day? Carbs? Just curious.
 
JudeCo said:
I've tried to eat a very low calorie diet, which means virtually no fat, and I lost a bit of weight but not much.

Then I just tried 'sensible' eating, again with not much fat, just cutting most things down a bit. No real impact.

Now I'm on a hgh fat low carb diet I'm losing weight quite quickly, but have found I need more insulin than I used to take, not less which was what I expected. 4 units more lantus per day and about (20 - 24) and nearly twice as much novorapid 3 times a day (3 - 5 and occasionally another 2 because BS so high).

Has anyone else experienced this or any explanation why it might be happening?
Click to expand...
Me too although officially type 2 I’m beginning to think I’ve been type 1 all along. I might have to go and get the tests which I never got in the first place. Because I was overweight and 36 they just said type 2. I was put on tablets the usual suspects, but that was only a year. I have just experienced the LCHF this year and now am finding my insulin resistance is definitely is raised. I think I will need to cut out the butter!
 
Snapsy said:
Hi @Kristin251 ! All good, thanks!

My learning about protein is simply that it does make a difference to blood glucose that it simply didn't when I would eat a more starch-based diet. I can't give you an equation that I work from!

For instance, to cover a small bowl of porridge (20g CHO), in the old days, I would take 2u insulin if I wasn't swimming after, or 1u if I was. For two boiled eggs, which is what I have now instead of porridge, I take around 1.7u insulin. I tell my pump calculator to consider 2 eggs (when consumed, as I do, with no CHO), as containing 12g CHO. If my BS is 6.0, I'll have 1.7u - or more/less than that if my BS is higher/lower than that.

:)
Click to expand...
I needed to cover my protein with insulin in the absence of enough carbs for energy, for me.
 
Kristin251 said:
I wonder what would happen with you if you added one third of an avo to your eggs.
Click to expand...
When I have a hardboiled egg for elevenses I have it with a sachet of mayo - no insulin required then! Avocado would probably be the same, I would think.

Funny re the CHO thing! It's basically a simpler format of the chemical formula for carbohydrate - C6 H12 O6 - and it's the nomenclature that all the books over here used back in the 80s when I was diagnosed. These days it's all 'carb' this and 'carb' that - heck, I also say it myself sometimes! Hadn't realised that CHO was also an official abbreviation for cholesterol - how very confusing!

:)
 
Kristin251 said:
I had to re read that a couple times as in the US CHO is cholesterol haha. And it's morning!!!!

This is making sense that it's not the TYPE of diabetes that protein effect bg but rather the amount of carbs in the meal. I've seen many T2's starting out very low carb and not seeing results but when further asked they had replaced the carbs with protein rather than fat.

Here's what happens with me. If I just ate eggs, no carbs and no fiber I spike as high as if it were carbs. And it comes on fast. Now if I add some avocado ( sorry, avo is back again haha) that has a few carbs but lots of fiber I keep low and slow. I don't know if it's the fat, fiber or the few carbs. What ever it is, every time I eat a meal without it there's no telling what's going to happen!!

I wonder what would happen with you if you added one third of an avo to your eggs. Or replaced one egg if that would be too much food. Might be time to experiment!!!
Click to expand...
2 slices of toasted protein bread plus 2 fried eggs in non-stick frying pan with butter; does the same for me. Reduces my IR. 1 Slice, even more.
I have to be careful not to get bored with eggs thou.
 
I would be interested to hear if reducing animal fats makes a difference. It might take a few days as when I eat too much animal fat ( like chicken wings with skin or a juicy burger ) it can take up to three days to get back to normal.
Cheese doesnit too but I limit myself to one ounce with my cocktail before dinner and then I'm ok.

It took me some time to notice/ realize it was the animal fat that was the problem. EVERY time I had a burger or chicken wings I was messed for days. Finally it clicked. I don't know how everyone eats all this dairy and fat off steaks and doesn't have a problem. I'm just thankful I can eat lamb chops haha. And chicken thighs but boneless skinless.
 
Snapsy said:
When I have a hardboiled egg for elevenses I have it with a sachet of mayo - no insulin required then! Avocado would probably be the same, I would think.

Funny re the CHO thing! It's basically a simpler format of the chemical formula for carbohydrate - C6 H12 O6 - and it's the nomenclature that all the books over here used back in the 80s when I was diagnosed. These days it's all 'carb' this and 'carb' that - heck, I also say it myself sometimes! Hadn't realised that CHO was also an official abbreviation for cholesterol - how very confusing!

:)
Click to expand...
I am mayo junky!! Always have been. Best on cold hard boiled eggs!! I have that for dinner often. Post meal and fastings are always spot on with that meal. I love it on a crunchy lettuce wrap !!
 
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