My personal hypothesis - T2 - Low insulin Diet

[CherryAA]

I'm not a lover of celery - do you think psyllium husk would do the trick (stirred in to water and drink before a meal?)

Fibre comes in two kinds - soluble fibre and insoluble fibre.

When you eat real food fibre you are eating to- two things

Insoluble fibre ( the stringy bits) that forms a lattice work to which the soluble fibre sticks - when you then ingest food , it has to penetrate the filled lattice work before it can start sending your glucose through the roof, so taken as a whole food, fibre slows down the glucose.

All real high fibre foods has a mix of both - celery is 58% insoluble, various seeweeds are 48% to 15% insoluble as per here.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jsfa.2740540410/abstract

I have read two different articles about the contents of pysllium husk - some saying its entirely soluble, other saying that as part of fibrogel ( the stuff @oldkentlady1 used) its about 1/3 insoluble. So I guess if it is 1/3 soluble then it probably works, but I've no clue if that is because the stuff they put in fibrogel is any different to the stuff for sale commercially on its own.

 

[Chook]

Fibre comes in two kinds - soluble fibre and insoluble fibre.

When you eat real food fibre you are eating to- two things

Insoluble fibre ( the stringy bits) that forms a lattice work to which the soluble fibre sticks - when you then ingest food , it has to penetrate the filled lattice work before it can start sending your glucose through the roof, so taken as a whole food, fibre slows down the glucose.

All real high fibre foods has a mix of both - celery is 58% insoluble, various seeweeds are 48% to 15% insoluble as per here.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jsfa.2740540410/abstract

I have read two different articles about the contents of pysllium husk - some saying its entirely soluble, other saying that as part of fibrogel ( the stuff @oldkentlady1 used) its about 1/3 insoluble. So I guess if it is 1/3 soluble then it probably works, but I've no clue if that is because the stuff they put in fibrogel is any different to the stuff for sale commercially on its own.

Thanks - I'll give it a go tomorrow and let you know how I get on.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I currently eat olive oil and cod liver oil, the cod liver oil has a much bigger content of Om 3, it also has huge quantities of Vit D ( which most people with diabetes will be deficient of) and Vit K (Vit D is only absorbed in the presence of K) - just that people can't sell books based on it ! ( though beware taking too much codliver oil it has so much Vit A that you really don't need to have much of it!- so neither do you get so many calories from it.

I believe all the gurus state that fish oil, as opposed to cod liver oil (or any fish liver) is the better choice.

http://foodwatch.com.au/blog/fats-a...rence-between-fish-oil-and-cod-liver-oil.html

Fish oil is extracted from the flesh of tuna, herring, cod and other deep-sea oily fish species. It’s rich in omega-3 fatty acids such as EPA and DHA but doesn’t have much vitamin A or D.

Cod Liver oil comes from the liver of the cod fish. It has less omega-3s but is very rich in vitamins A and D.

If you like numbers, cod liver oil contains less EPA and DHA (around 8% EPA and 10% DHA) than fish oil (at 18%EPA and 12%DHA).

So basically it depends on whether one prefers more omega 3, or more vitamin A and D.

 

[CherryAA]

I believe all the gurus state that fish oil, as opposed to cod liver oil (or any fish liver) is the better choice.

http://foodwatch.com.au/blog/fats-a...rence-between-fish-oil-and-cod-liver-oil.html

Fish oil is extracted from the flesh of tuna, herring, cod and other deep-sea oily fish species. It’s rich in omega-3 fatty acids such as EPA and DHA but doesn’t have much vitamin A or D.

Cod Liver oil comes from the liver of the cod fish. It has less omega-3s but is very rich in vitamins A and D.

If you like numbers, cod liver oil contains less EPA and DHA (around 8% EPA and 10% DHA) than fish oil (at 18%EPA and 12%DHA).

So basically it depends on whether one prefers more omega 3, or more vitamin A and D.

Agreed entirely - I chose it for now ( in small doses) because I am seriously vitamin D deficient. But having said that I am also happy to add other fish oils and for that matter olive oil - but then I'm also happy to add butter, goose fat, duck fat, lard , grass fed beef and properly raised fowl.

My quest is quite simply to get as close as I can to 100% nutrients, omega 3m 6 matched coming as far as possible from real foods without supplementation where the omega 6 is the proper ALA stuff coming from real foods not industrial seed oils .
.

 

[CherryAA]

Day 21 of the Low Insulin Diet (starting weight 91.6 kg, current 85.4 kg )
Waist size 86.0 cm (starting 94 cm)

Overall 0.6 kg down
Yesterday I ate 1800 calories as per the plan, in three small meals 67% fat overall , 22g carbs, and including 4 single malts I also went for a walk and swimming. , breath ketones still 6.6 ppm. Average glucose the day after my 3000 calorie binge 5.5 mmol, with a liver dump high of 7.8 mmol. bp 134/82.
try again today - 3 small meals in eating window 2- 8 pm

 

[Kentoldlady1]

Thanks - I'll give it a go tomorrow and let you know how I get on.

I use fibregel because I find it really difficult to eat enough fibre from real food. Even before t2d I had problems.
It tastes OK as long as you drink it quickly!
Tbh I find it very useful.

 

[Kristin251]

Mentioned in despatches!!

I agree with you absolutely about the fibre. I would say that at the beginning of my t2d I was trying whole meal every thing. It didn't seem to make much difference to my numbers which still stayed high.

For me, I have decided that I need a lot more fibre than recommended. I have started with the celery (thank you cherry) but admit I find it hard to eat enough.

I am not going to make a habit out of eating high carb anything, but will use more fibre before my next national trust scone.

Thanks again for this very informative thread cherry.

Try avocado!! 12 g fiber in 5 oz. This is why I eat some with every meal. Keeps things low and slow.

 

[BrianTheElder]

Hi Cherry. I have a question. Do you use rapeseed oil in your quest to equalise omega 3 and omega 6? I would like to use it because it is grown in the UK and lots of farms produce their own varieties, mostly cold pressed. It is quite similar to olive oil and flaxseed oil, being slightly higher in polyunsaturates, but with a useful dollop of omega 3. Currently, I tend to use olive oil and butter instead, but I feel rapeseed oils should be better to cook in
I understand there is quite a lot of resistance in USA because of Monsanto and the canola oil debate, but our stuff is unadulterated anyway.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Hi Cherry. I have a question. Do you use rapeseed oil in your quest to equalise omega 3 and omega 6? I would like to use it because it is grown in the UK and lots of farms produce their own varieties, mostly cold pressed. It is quite similar to olive oil and flaxseed oil, being slightly higher in polyunsaturates, but with a useful dollop of omega 3. Currently, I tend to use olive oil and butter instead, but I feel rapeseed oils should be better to cook in
I understand there is quite a lot of resistance in USA because of Monsanto and the canola oil debate, but our stuff is unadulterated anyway.

http://www.healthyfood.co.uk/article/olive-oil-vs-rapeseed-oil-which-is-healthier/

 

[CherryAA]

http://www.healthyfood.co.uk/article/olive-oil-vs-rapeseed-oil-which-is-healthier/

A good run down, but it presumes that saturated fats are bad for you - and thus anything with low saturated fat must be a good thing.

I don't particularly buy that at all. So I don't try to eat olive oil in preference to butter, lard, goose fat or duck fat because I like the fact that butter raises both HDL and LDL whilst keeping triglycerides low. My own view is that I probably want my cholesterol levels to be high - i.e. to become a hyper responder in terms of lipids ( high hdl, hgh ldl, low trigs) as I think that is the best place to be for an older woman in terms of all cause mortality.

Olive oil has been touted as the " ideal" fat because it both raises HDL and lowers LDL - I think that is a hangover from the whole LDL causes heart diseases nonsense. Specific types of LDL are implicated in heart disease and these appear to be a function of carbohydrate intake not oil intake so I am not sure why I want to get my LDL to be low other than the carb related bad stuff . I already did an apoB/ apoA test that shows that my own lipid profile is excellent in terms of the bad stuff and that has been from eating plenty of saturated fats - so I'm happy to continue doing that.

I am not disputing for a second that olive oil is good for me, just I don't think its any better for me than butter. So I use it for taste where I want to.

Rapeseed oil takes that debate one step further because basically it switches up more poly unsaturated fats in place of saturated fats . That is entirely the opposite of what I think I need to do - which is get down my polyunsaturated fats and increase both HDL and LDL. hence my diet is currently a mix of olive oil ( high mono, medium sat low poly) and butter ( high sat, medium mono and low poly) but where I do eat om 3 and 6 I try to match them.

Rapeseed oil has three times as much poly as olive oil, and ten times as much poly as butter. If you buy the theory that matching om 3 and om 6 is important, then rapeseed oil is the best high poly one to choose overall because its got a closer Om 3 to 6 ratio that most, however in absolute terms you will end up getting a lot more volume om 6 oil. 19g per 100g rapeseed, 10g per 100g olive oil, 3 g 100g butter.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I hate olive oil with a vengeance. Ruins a good salad in my opinion, but I do use Hellmanns Mayo, made from rapeseed oil, instead. We always fry in butter and roast in duck/goose fat and butter. Butter goes on everything in our house! I also eat more salmon than is probably good for me, plus milled flaxseed, and half a Lidl roll every day, sometimes twice.

 

[CherryAA]

I hate olive oil with a vengeance. Ruins a good salad in my opinion, but I do use Hellmanns Mayo, made from rapeseed oil, instead. We always fry in butter and roast in duck/goose fat and butter. Butter goes on everything in our house! I also eat more salmon than is probably good for me, plus milled flaxseed, and half a Lidl roll every day, sometimes twice.

I think for all of this, finding the stuff you like and building a diet around it is the prime thing. if you are conscious what is in the foods you eat, then its easy to figure out how to balance it - Hellman's mayo is a classic " go to" for many - and I love it myself. I must admit I used to have it on everything and now I am trying to turn it more into "treat" and use it when I am eating fish to offset the om 6 . It sounds like you have that well sussed

 

[hankjam]

I've wondered about Rapeseed oil and was put off by a fairly lively discussion with some Canucks, who as mentioned above are not so keen. With consideration I don't think we are talking about the same oil, ours being cold pressed and the like...

and on the other hand olive oil must be one of the most suspect oils when you see, "a Product of EU" on the label rather than a country of origin... I think the level of adulteration is not small.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=olive+oil+adulteration&atb=v40-2a_&ia=recipes

So I blend them both with some ground nut oil....

 

[CherryAA]

Fascinating article from Butter Bob about measuring insulin, which shows you can actually do the Kraft Insulin Assay at home with Meridian Valley Labs. I assume that the timing of the blood spots probably means can't do it from abroad - though might be worth a chat to them as to whether they know where it can b done on the other side of the pond

If you want to find out what your own insulin production is - you can do two things
a) arrange for a fasting insulin test which will tell you the ball park levels of your fasting insulin
an b) do an OGTT insulin assay - which shows your insulin responds over time since eating. ( look up Kraft curves for details) - in the US you can do this as a home test via Meridian valley labs

http://meridianvalleylab.com/Kraft-Prediabetes-Profile

Some of us outside the US have done home OGTT tests of glucose only which give an approximation based on the shape of the curve and the data here using Rapilose which you can buy on amazon. You can then correlate that with the data provided by the Kraft labs .. ( example attached)

This is a worked example of Butter Bob using the Meridian Valley lab tests
http://www.buttermakesyourpantsfalloff.com/glucose-insulin/

Finally here is the paper butter bob mentions which which correlates fasting insulin with HDL, Triglycerides , belly fat, waist to height ratios and BMI in adolescents - pity I can't find one for adults but the principles look the same.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/86/1/33.full.pdf Butter bob correlated these figures in the attached chart - the curves pretty much hold true for me. HDL change, Trig change, waist to height ratio change, and belly fat change and fasting insulin change. from diagnosis 90 Hba1c to today Hba1C 42

 

[CherryAA]

I've wondered about Rapeseed oil and was put off by a fairly lively discussion with some Canucks, who as mentioned above are not so keen. With consideration I don't think we are talking about the same oil, ours being cold pressed and the like...

and on the other hand olive oil must be one of the most suspect oils when you see, "a Product of EU" on the label rather than a country of origin... I think the level of adulteration is not small.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=olive+oil+adulteration&atb=v40-2a_&ia=recipes

So I blend them both with some ground nut oil....

Yes another good reason I prefer butter - when I've bought it from a farm shop, I'm pretty sure its real.

 

[CherryAA]

I've applied Butter Bob's charts at diagnosis, 6 months and fasting insulin at diagnosis is a guess - the number is just " sky high " after that all the date is real, red at diagnosis, blue at 6 months, green at 12 months .

 

[CherryAA]

Well yesterday, I tried my old method of dieting , three small meals and I hated it. I felt drawn to the fridge the entire time, my entire being wanted to snack and I ended up eating way more crisps than I should have done. It is quite simply not the way for my body to go and I felt out of sorts all day long. If I haven't switched it up enough yet, tough. Today I am eating one meal again.

 

[CherryAA]

@kokhongw has made a great find on his blog

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5131405/

This piece of research shows that when in the presence of high insulin, the human body reacted completely differently to the ingestion of carbohydrates than it did for those with low insulin levels, whereas it did not do so for high fat or high protein. This seems to confirm Dr Gary Fettkes, view of the same phenomenon as regards the increase in endogenous fructose production in the presence of high insulin.

Looking at the starting profiles of the individuals concerned -
Blood pressure 110 /60 lean 119/ 71 not particularly interesting.

Lean was 22 BMI, fat was 30 BMI
Total cholesterol 5.09 lean, 5.28 fat nothing interesting
LDL 3.09 lean 3.20 fat nothing interesting
These two items have been the prime focus of lipid tests for the last 30 years and they are utterly meaningless.

HDL 1.71 lean 1.19 fat - 43% lower
Trigs 0.62 lean 1.98 fat - 319% higher

So that is starting to get us somewhere - though for years doctors have been ignoring the trigs figure ( listen to Dr Unwin on the subject) or even worse saying" ah - that's fat in your blood stream , eat less fat" and commenting on low HDL - "ah you need to exercise" more in preference to saying "eat less carbs and more fats and do some exercise" - )

FASTING INSULIN 4.21 lean 21.04 fat 500% higher
This confirms once again how ludicrous that this is not in the standard lipid profile.

This confirms once again to me that trying to reduce the insulin has to be the way to go - via low FII foods and infrequent meals. I'm back to once a day ! (or less if I can stand it )

 

[CherryAA]

Day 22 of the Low Insulin Diet (starting weight 91.6 kg, current 86.6 kg )
Waist size 87.0 cm (starting 94 cm)

1.2 kg on! I assume from returning water weight, I ate about 2000 calories 60% fats and having given into some crisp ended up with 27g om 6compared to 4.6 om 3 ( still less than5:1 - which is the target talked about a a realistic goal) . I felt rubbish compared with the one meal a day approach - no idea specifically what that might be though I assume that having spread the carbs out I ended up with all the bad stuff outlined in the paper above and I compounded it with the Om 6. The difference in how I feel physically is quite remarkable.

 

[CherryAA]

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/healt...eat-blamed-for-pacific-diabetes-epidemic.html

This type of stuff is just appalling. the text states "Health specialists say sugary food as well as fatty meat from New Zealand are contributing to a diabetes epidemic in the Pacific. There are calls for price controls on widely available processed products in the Pacific. The foods include high-fat Kiwi corned beef, biscuits and sugary soda.

The headline blames cheap fatty meats, so the one thing that might help them - the import of perfectly nutricious cheap cuts of fatty meat - the stuff I make the staple of my diet - may be stopped because its not the "perfect looking fat free" nutrient deficient lean cuts of meat we have been taught is the only good stuff. Sometimes I just want to cry.