Huge spike in BG readings tonight - just sharing

[ixi1429]

I had 'flu (proper 'flu 40+ temp for four days) about 2 weeks ago. Now recovered (well kind of - I am still coughing). I am still coughing well. Decided to treat the family and I tonight, so we had a take away - Pizza for the boy, while the wife and I had an Indian. I had the Tandoori Mixed grill, sag ponir and a Roti. I have had this before and know that my BG will spike a little. Last time it went from 5.2 to 6.6.

Tonight it went from 4.8 to 8.7 (ARGHHHH!).

This is the highest it has ever been since I started testing my BG (early Dec). My average BG is 5.5 with my average fasting is 5.9. so a little concerning. In fact my BG when I was diagnosed last summer was 7.8. I am obviously blaming the food but I have had this meal before without the huge jump. I have just tested (3 hours after I started to eat) and it is 7.6.

My fasting BG this morning was 6.7 - the highest it has been first thing. my carb intake before the Indian was 41g. I calculates that the Indian added another 30 so I still below my daily target of 75 but even so...

 

[ringi]

Never have a Roti again! Gram for Gram, flour can increase BG more than sugar. Its likely your insulin resistance is still higher than normal due to the flu, hence the greater BG response.

(A 10 minute walk may have helped just before or after the meal.)

Maybe it would be worth reducing your carb intake to 50g a day, or try intermittent fasting until your BG is back under full control. Just having the evening meal as early as possible help, as it gives your body a longer fast before breakfast.

Remember most people would not even know anything was going wrong until months later when they got their next A1C, hence by self-testing you are ahead of the game.

 

[pleinster]

I had 'flu (proper 'flu 40+ temp for four days) about 2 weeks ago. Now recovered (well kind of - I am still coughing). I am still coughing well. Decided to treat the family and I tonight, so we had a take away - Pizza for the boy, while the wife and I had an Indian. I had the Tandoori Mixed grill, sag ponir and a Roti. I have had this before and know that my BG will spike a little. Last time it went from 5.2 to 6.6.

Tonight it went from 4.8 to 8.7 (ARGHHHH!).

This is the highest it has ever been since I started testing my BG (early Dec). My average BG is 5.5 with my average fasting is 5.9. so a little concerning. In fact my BG when I was diagnosed last summer was 7.8. I am obviously blaming the food but I have had this meal before without the huge jump. I have just tested (3 hours after I started to eat) and it is 7.6.

My fasting BG this morning was 6.7 - the highest it has been first thing. my carb intake before the Indian was 41g. I calculates that the Indian added another 30 so I still below my daily target of 75 but even so...

To be honest, given the food you are eating...I don't think the level is ridiculously high. How is you HbA1c ? If you want to keep it well under that 8mmol mark (ideally averaging a couple of mmols under that) you need to be stricter...but you know that.

 

[ixi1429]

Both,

Thanks for the input/

@pleinster
HBa1C was 52 back in June when I was diagnosed and then 48 in Oct. I am going for another one at the end of next week so I am managing it through diet. I was just really surprised / concerned at the huge jump in BG.

@ringi
I have had the same meal before (inc. the Roti) and my BG did jump but less than two points which is why I was surprised at the huge spike. The 75g limit I set my self seems to be working for me - I allow 15 per meal and 15 for tea (with milk) and any extra's. My average tends to be less than 70g per day. My average BG (including last nights spike over the same period is 5.7
I will see what my HbA1C is after my test next week and adjust accordingly.

 

[AdamJames]

I had 'flu (proper 'flu 40+ temp for four days) about 2 weeks ago. Now recovered (well kind of - I am still coughing). I am still coughing well. Decided to treat the family and I tonight, so we had a take away - Pizza for the boy, while the wife and I had an Indian. I had the Tandoori Mixed grill, sag ponir and a Roti. I have had this before and know that my BG will spike a little. Last time it went from 5.2 to 6.6.

Tonight it went from 4.8 to 8.7 (ARGHHHH!).

This is the highest it has ever been since I started testing my BG (early Dec). My average BG is 5.5 with my average fasting is 5.9. so a little concerning. In fact my BG when I was diagnosed last summer was 7.8. I am obviously blaming the food but I have had this meal before without the huge jump. I have just tested (3 hours after I started to eat) and it is 7.6.

My fasting BG this morning was 6.7 - the highest it has been first thing. my carb intake before the Indian was 41g. I calculates that the Indian added another 30 so I still below my daily target of 75 but even so...

I've found that my 2-hour post-meal readings vary hugely for the same meal. Even in a regular, very price test I do, involving 34g of carbs, always in the morning, always after the same amount of sleep, always with me sitting perfectly still for 2 hours after eating, and always taking 3 readings before and after to minimise inaccuracy due to meter readings, I can get anything from a 0.5 mmol/l rise to a 3 mmol/l rise.

There seem to be many factors that could influence that. Last-meal effect is looking likely to be one of the bigger factors (if my last meal the night before had a fair few carbs, then I might get the lower result in the test the next morning). But things change so often that I'm sure by this time next month I'll no longer even feel sure about that.

So personally, I'd say yes, having had the flu may be a factor. But really, what I'd say is, that particular meal gives you a 2 hour post-prandial increment of somewhere between +1.4 mmol/l and +3.9 mmol/l.

One of the many factors that causes such variance, I suspect, is that the 'shape of the graph' of blood sugar after a high-carb meal can have quite a steep downward slope. So if for example you take a measurement at 2 hours, you could get a very different reading than at 2 hours and 20 minutes. So the +1.4 result vs the +3.9, being just snapshots, may actually belong on two curves which were more similar than they might lead us to believe.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I've found that my 2-hour post-meal readings vary hugely for the same meal. Even in a regular, very price test I do, involving 34g of carbs, always in the morning, always after the same amount of sleep, always with me sitting perfectly still for 2 hours after eating, and always taking 3 readings before and after to minimise inaccuracy due to meter readings, I can get anything from a 0.5 mmol/l rise to a 3 mmol/l rise.

The meal has 34g carbs. What else does it have and are they always the same? Is it always the exact same meal, all measured out?

If you are going to continue doing this experiment, if I were you I would do it much later in the day - evening meal. Doing it in the mornings may be affected by liver dumps interfering with the post meal levels.

 

[AdamJames]

The meal has 34g carbs. What else does it have and are they always the same? Is it always the exact same meal, all measured out?

If you are going to continue doing this experiment, if I were you I would do it much later in the day - evening meal. Doing it in the mornings may be affected by liver dumps interfering with the post meal levels.

Re the details of the test, it's the same as I've always done since first mentioning it, see post 14 here:

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/great-hba1c-very-disappointed.130806/

I don't *think* liver dumps are a factor, but of course they could be. I started this type of test a while after getting a feel for what happens to my bgs overnight, after waking up and throughout the day. If I get dawn or shortly-after-waking-up liver dumps, I've never seen one yet.

However that might be about to change! I've never had a morning bg of 3.9 until recently after a fast the previous day. I'd expect to get a liver dump shortly after getting up in that case. I've verified that when my bg gets down to 3.7, all it takes is less than 2 minutes of easy exercise for it to go up to 4.7, so it seems my body regulates to fairly common levels.

But prior to that my morning bg is routinely at about 5 or just over, and I've never witnessed a liver dump shortly after waking up.

I may try switching to doing it in the evening, as it would certainly be nice if that ironed out any interfering factors, but so far the previous meal seems to be the biggest factor.

 

[Bluetit1802]

If you have a lot of insulin resistance and/or a fatty liver, you will get liver dumps. They don't always happen first thing in the morning. It wasn't until I started to use a Libre sensor that I realised my liver dumps commenced a while after getting up, and continued throughout the morning until just before lunch time. This was a bit of a shock to me because my bedtime level and my FBG were always almost identical, and always low 5's. (I have never ever had a problem with FBG since I started testing). I no longer get these morning dumps, but I do get minor ones after exercising.

It may be worth shifting your 34g carb fest to evening meal and see what happens. There has to be a reason why there is such a big difference in the 2 hour rise amount. (0.5 to 3 is a huge difference).. Last meal effect can play a part, but I find this unlikely as it takes 2 or 3 days of carbs rather than 1 single meal the previous evening.

 

[AdamJames]

If you have a lot of insulin resistance and/or a fatty liver, you will get liver dumps. They don't always happen first thing in the morning. It wasn't until I started to use a Libre sensor that I realised my liver dumps commenced a while after getting up, and continued throughout the morning until just before lunch time. This was a bit of a shock to me because my bedtime level and my FBG were always almost identical, and always low 5's. (I have never ever had a problem with FBG since I started testing). I no longer get these morning dumps, but I do get minor ones after exercising.

It may be worth shifting your 34g carb fest to evening meal and see what happens. There has to be a reason why there is such a big difference in the 2 hour rise amount. (0.5 to 3 is a huge difference).. Last meal effect can play a part, but I find this unlikely as it takes 2 or 3 days of carbs rather than 1 single meal the previous evening.

Interesting...

Anything to reduce unknown influencing factors would be great. I like the idea of being able to use the test to see if my metabolism is improving, but so far it's not helpful because of the variance.

What I can say, is that right from the start, +3mmol/l seemed to be worst case, and that's still the case - it appears to be a 'magic number' for me.

Things like not eating much fat the day before, and being in a period of regular exercise the night before, also seemed to help.

If you wanted to come up with a whole list of protocols to try to ensure this test was meaningful from one result to the next, what would you suggest?

I'm thinking it really needs to be very strict. The previous meal would need to be the same, the exercise levels the day before and the current day would need to be the same, the balance of macro nutrients in the days leading up to it would need to be the same, and possibly even the starting bg would need to be the same, but that last bit in particular would make things impossible.

I think what I'll do, is confirm that my bg is more stable in the evenings as you suggest it may be. Perhaps if I get in the habit of:

1) Doing it for the 'evening meal'.

2) Doing it at least 6 hours after the previous meal, in the hope my bg is on a long, slow, steady decline and not about to do anything interesting independent of food, such as a liver dump.

3) Take a reading 1 hour before the test. If the bg an hour later, at the start of the test, is not very close to the previous result, then abandon the test, as clearly my body is doing something interesting. Also abandon the test if my bg is close to 4, as I'd expect my bg to shoot up if I did the smallest amount of movement in that scenario, based on recent experience.

 

[Bluetit1802]

@AdamJames
Have you considered a couple of Libre sensors? OK they are expensive, but as a one off they will teach you a heck of a lot about what your body is doing 24/7. The starter pack includes 2 sensors plus the reader and USB cable etc. (some people use their phone rather than buy the reader). You clearly want to know what your body is doing, and this is an excellent way of tracking things and finding trends.

 

[AdamJames]

@AdamJames
Have you considered a couple of Libre sensors? OK they are expensive, but as a one off they will teach you a heck of a lot about what your body is doing 24/7. The starter pack includes 2 sensors plus the reader and USB cable etc. (some people use their phone rather than buy the reader). You clearly want to know what your body is doing, and this is an excellent way of tracking things and finding trends.

Yes, I do keep thinking about getting one. I'd love to get a good feel for what my body is doing.

Unfortunately I was so ill with T2 (well that's an exaggeration - people have it much worse than me, I just basically couldn't stay awake for more than 4 hours a day and mentally I couldn't actually do my job, it's very much a mental/problem solving job) for the second half of last year that I had to have a sort of sabbatical from work for a few months, which didn't exactly help my finances or savings!

I'm very lucky to still have the same job and be back at work full time now, my employers have been very understanding. But it will take a month or two before I feel like I have money to spend on something like that. I think it's pretty likely I'll end up getting one.

 

[AdamJames]

@AdamJames
Have you considered a couple of Libre sensors? OK they are expensive, but as a one off they will teach you a heck of a lot about what your body is doing 24/7. The starter pack includes 2 sensors plus the reader and USB cable etc. (some people use their phone rather than buy the reader). You clearly want to know what your body is doing, and this is an excellent way of tracking things and finding trends.

I realised what you meant after I responded and I've just remembered to read up on it.

So am I right in thinking that you are normally supposed to get the reader with the sensors, but that someone has done a sort of a hack so that you can use a phone with a certain app instead? I.e. not officially supported, but it works? That does make it more tempting, but it seems that your smartphone needs NFC? Unfortunately my phone doesn't have NFC

PS: I like the new avatar. Is it the same dog? He/she/it is lovely I didn't used to like dogs with that shape of head until we adopted one from a rescue centre and fell in love with her.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I realised what you meant after I responded and I've just remembered to read up on it.

So am I right in thinking that you are normally supposed to get the reader with the sensors, but that someone has done a sort of a hack so that you can use a phone with a certain app instead? I.e. not officially supported, but it works? That does make it more tempting, but it seems that your smartphone needs NFC? Unfortunately my phone doesn't have NFC

PS: I like the new avatar. Is it the same dog? He/she/it is lovely I didn't used to like dogs with that shape of head until we adopted one from a rescue centre and fell in love with her.

Using a phone and the app is official, but the phones do have to comply with the criteria as you say. I haven't got a posh phone and don't use apps. If you order the starter pack you get the reader, the 2 sensors, and the accessories, and you can download the software for free. Thereafter you just order how ever many sensors you want. The reader has several purposes. It not only reads the sensors, but is also a blood glucose meter in its own right (with the appropriate test strips, useful as a back up or for calibration of the sensors) and also measures ketones (again with the appropriate strips). I am a part time user. I find them more than useful on holidays to save testing, and of course to teach me what my levels are doing 24/7. I think you especially would benefit from trying it with 2 sensors so you get a month's worth of readings every 15 minutes 24/7. You do need to get plenty of advice on how best to use them as they can be tricky.

Yes, that is the same dog. She is a Boston Terrier and totally gorgeous, 100% lunatic, crazy, lovable, amazing, and makes me laugh constantly

 

[AdamJames]

Using a phone and the app is official, but the phones do have to comply with the criteria as you say. I haven't got a posh phone and don't use apps. If you order the starter pack you get the reader, the 2 sensors, and the accessories, and you can download the software for free. Thereafter you just order how ever many sensors you want. The reader has several purposes. It not only reads the sensors, but is also a blood glucose meter in its own right (with the appropriate test strips, useful as a back up or for calibration of the sensors) and also measures ketones (again with the appropriate strips). I am a part time user. I find them more than useful on holidays to save testing, and of course to teach me what my levels are doing 24/7. I think you especially would benefit from trying it with 2 sensors so you get a month's worth of readings every 15 minutes 24/7. You do need to get plenty of advice on how best to use them as they can be tricky.

Yes, that is the same dog. She is a Boston Terrier and totally gorgeous, 100% lunatic, crazy, lovable, amazing, and makes me laugh constantly

She is very cute. Dogs are just about the best things in life. Our one is now almost totally blind, and has always been a bit brain damaged since we 'rescued' her, but I've never known a creature more filled with love!

I didn't know about the libre's ability to measure ketones. It's getting more and more tempting. I'm hopefully going to be selling my car soon, if I get the higher end of what I'm hoping for perhaps I should get one of these sooner rather than later.

Good point about being a part-time user - I stupidly compared the price of the sensors to my cheap testing strips and thought I couldn't afford the monthly outlay. But of course you are not committed to using it constantly! I reckon I could learn a heck of a lot with just one sensor and that would guide me for months to come. I probably wouldn't feel the need to use another sensor till a few months later just to see if things are still behaving in the same way.