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Does a low carb/high fat diet include saturated fat?

ringi said:
In someone with very high insulin resistance excess protein is converted into BG quickly and requires a lot of insulin to control. This insulin regardless of where it comes from can stop someone with very high IR burning fat - and hence removing the fat from their liver. So filling up on protein does not work for people with the highest insulin resistance, this just happens to be lots of people with Type2! (
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Is it not the case that excess protein is only converted to blood glucose when there is an absence of glucose from carbs? So only those on a very low carb (keto) diet could suffer from this?
 
No, but if someone is not on a very low carb diet, the carbs are more of an issue...... So if someone can get control on a moderate carb diet, it is unlikely to be a problem for them, but could slow down or stop weight loss.
 
ringi said:
No, but if someone is not on a very low carb diet, the carbs are more of an issue...... So if someone can get control on a moderate carb diet, it is unlikely to be a problem for them, but could slow down or stop weight loss.
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So you are agreeing with me, that protein is only converted to BG in the absence of glucose from carbs? That someone not on a very low carb diet will not have a problem with excess protein? Weight issues would depend not just on excess protein but also on the amount of carbs and fats eaten. It is a matter of balance.

Personally, I have never had a problem with protein. It didn't in any way hinder my excellent weight loss, and it hasn't made any significant difference to my BS control.
 
ringi said:
In someone with very high insulin resistance excess protein is converted into BG quickly and requires a lot of insulin to control. This insulin regardless of where it comes from can stop someone with very high IR burning fat - and hence removing the fat from their liver. So filling up on protein does not work for people with the highest insulin resistance, this just happens to be lots of people with Type2! (But lots of people with Type2 can get great results on the Egg and Ribeye Steak diet, as both of these foods have about 50% energy from fat.)

I also expect it is impossible for someone to increase the fat on their liver if the carb level is very low, and the protein is only moderate regardless of how much fat they eat. Hence even if someone does not lose weight, their Type2 will not get worse.

(In Type1 there are also issues with the insulin half-life not matching how slowly protein is converted into BG. But that can be coped with by changing the timing of the insulin.)

However there should never be many carbs flying about with a high-fat diet, the worse diet of all is high fat and high carbs!.
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There’s no need for any excess protein, that is where problems will come in. If you just take what you need and get the balance right for your needs you shouldn’t experience the above said problems. I’m not at all insulin resistant and it still becomes problematic and I will spike after a meal without the extra insulin on board to cover the extra protein. I was way off with my needs at first.

That’s why I switched over to humulin s. Splitting my novorapid was becoming a pain quite literally. Not only was timing quite crucial with the split doses the novorapid was still sometimes to quick with some protein sources.
 
Remember that a lot of people with Type2 can produce enough insulin of their own to give good BG control with protein but not carbs. The issue is if they have very high insulin resistance, the high level of insulin will result in more fat in the liver and no weight loss.
 
I've just read the replies in this post (thankyou) but have to say I'm more confused than ever now. :(

For example "protein is only converted to BG in the absence of glucose from carbs? That someone not on a very low carb diet will not have a problem with excess protein Weight issues would depend not just on excess protein but also on the amount of carbs and fats eaten"

For me as a relative newbie the above is like tryng to understand a poem written by Keates....
 
Hampshire_Lad said:
I've just read the replies in this post (thankyou) but have to say I'm more confused than ever now. :(

For example "protein is only converted to BG in the absence of glucose from carbs? That someone not on a very low carb diet will not have a problem with excess protein Weight issues would depend not just on excess protein but also on the amount of carbs and fats eaten"

For me as a relative newbie the above is like tryng to understand a poem written by Keates....
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As a relative newby stop worrying about the little things and get started on removing carbs from your diet.
That will have the biggest benefit for your blood sugars.
So cut out bread, pasta, rice, root veg anything with sugar or flour in it.
Once you have done that you'll be left with nice things like meat, fish, green veg, eggs, cheese, cream.
Base your meals around those foods and you won't go far wrong.
Once you get used to the low carb way of eating then if you want you can start to tweak things and can investigate things like sat fat and what it my or may not be doing to you. The science on fats is changing and it looks like they have been demonised incorrectly.
 
bulkbiker said:
As a relative newby stop worrying about the little things and get started on removing carbs from your diet.
That will have the biggest benefit for your blood sugars.
So cut out bread, pasta, rice, root veg anything with sugar or flour in it.
Once you have done that you'll be left with nice things like meat, fish, green veg, eggs, cheese, cream.
Base your meals around those foods and you won't go far wrong.
Once you get used to the low carb way of eating then if you want you can start to tweak things and can investigate things like sat fat and what it my or may not be doing to you. The science on fats is changing and it looks like they have been demonised incorrectly.
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Thanks. Maybe I am over complicating things as you suggest- I will do as you advise and go from there
 
Hampshire_Lad said:
Thanks. Maybe I am over complicating things as you suggest- I will do as you advise and go from there
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Its very easy to make something simple like reducing carbs quite complicated and all of us here have a slightly tweaked way of eating so the best thing to do is make a start. You've got the rest of your life to make adjustments.
 
bulkbiker said:
Its very easy to make something simple like reducing carbs quite complicated and all of us here have a slightly tweaked way of eating so the best thing to do is make a start. You've got the rest of your life to make adjustments.
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Time to repeat your excellent adage "Don't let the pursuit of perfection stand in the way of progress". If I remember correctly.
 
Mr_Pot said:
Time to repeat your excellent adage "Don't let the pursuit of perfection stand in the way of progress". If I remember correctly.
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That adage helped me when I kind of lost the plot trying to work out mid, low, no carbs, mid, high, low fat at the beginning. With all the information to hand, as @bulkbiker says above, it is easy to over-complicate things and forget that, at the beginning cutting out the 'big ones' - bread, pasta, flour etc - is the way to start. Once you are comfortable with the cutting-out, then start tweaking. Good luck @Hampshire_Lad, you'll get there. Rome wasn't built etc etc!
 
Sue192 said:
it is easy to over-complicate things and forget that, at the beginning cutting out the 'big ones' - bread, pasta, flour etc - is the way to start. Once you are comfortable with the cutting-out, then start tweaking. Good luck @Hampshire_Lad, you'll get there. Rome wasn't built etc etc!
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The problem with that is "cutting out the big ones" may not be necessary for everyone. It hasn't been necessary for me to completely cut out potatoes for example. Additionally, some people are able to do cold turkey. Others aren't. I would have hated it and may even have failed at the first hurdle. I will never know of course, but I do know I never suffered with cravings or carb flu. I found it very easy. Eating to my meter worked for me. (with a little help from a few Libre sensors)
 
I didnt need to cut out the big ones. I have gradually lowered my bread and potatoes to a level which gives me good blood sugar readings. Through testing I know that i can only have a very small helping of rice or pasta, but have dropped those now so I can eat more wholemeal bread, which helps with my other issues.

I dropped all obvious sweet stuff, got a meter, tested and recorded, and found my level.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
The problem with that is "cutting out the big ones" may not be necessary for everyone
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I'll agree it may not be necessary but it is certainly beneficial especially for the newly diagnosed with a high HbA1c. Personally I don't think anyone needs any of the big ones so to continue having them just introduces carb cravings which for many are way too strong.
 
bulkbiker said:
I'll agree it may not be necessary but it is certainly beneficial especially for the newly diagnosed with a high HbA1c. Personally I don't think anyone needs any of the big ones so to continue having them just introduces carb cravings which for many are way too strong.
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On this one we will have to agree to disagree! :)
 
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