Ketosis

[SueJB]

I've read that to get into ketosis, you have to watch the amount of protein you eat. I've also read that it should be limited to 1g per kilo of weight. Any thoughts on this please? @bulkbiker you seem to be the person who knows lots about this, any ideas?

 

[BrianTheElder]

All I can say is, I am in ketosis and I have to watch my protein very carefully. But it's not the same for everyone.
The general recommendations are 1-2 g per kilo of target body weight, but the only way to find out is to see how it affects your body by trying higher and lower inputs.

 

[Goonergal]

I find that too much protein impacts my fasting blood glucose levels, but it doesn’t throw me out of ketosis. Seems to vary between individuals.

 

[kamsamji]

...and how (quickly)do you know if you have been thrown out of ketosis or not? Very curious about this.

 

[shelley262]

I find that too much protein impacts my fasting blood glucose levels, but it doesn’t throw me out of ketosis. Seems to vary between individuals.

Same with me @Goonergal i stay at quite a high level of ketosis despite eating a reasonable amount of protein I don’t measure my macros though just my carbs

 

[bulkbiker]

I've read that to get into ketosis, you have to watch the amount of protein you eat. I've also read that it should be limited to 1g per kilo of weight. Any thoughts on this please? @bulkbiker you seem to be the person who knows lots about this, any ideas?

I'm afraid I overeat my protein macro all the time with apparently little effect last year I averaged about 135g per day with a lean body mass of say 80kg so I should be having about 80g but it doesn't seem to have an adverse impact on my blood sugars so....
From what I have read it would seem that for most people with a partially "normalised" metabolism gluconeogensis could be a demand driven process rather than one that just happens which neatly explains my situation.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

To check for ketosis you can use Ketostix (urine) or a blood tester.

I only test very occasionally but have always found ketones present.

I still get confused over the difference between being in ketosis and being fat adapted; I think that I have read that dietary ketosis is just a stepping stone to full fat adaptation and once you are fully fat adapted then your ketone levels can drop right down. However I usually can't find the reference when I need it.

It will probably be buried somewhere in Volek and Phinney.

 

[Goonergal]

...and how (quickly)do you know if you have been thrown out of ketosis or not? Very curious about this.

I use a meter (Caresens Dual) to check. Not very often as the strips are very expensive. Tend to do it when I’m concerned I might have dropped out of ketosis.

 

[bulkbiker]

To check for ketosis you can use Ketostix (urine) or a blood tester.

I only test very occasionally but have always found ketones present.

I still get confused over the difference between being in ketosis and being fat adapted; I think that I have read that dietary ketosis is just a stepping stone to full fat adaptation and once you are fully fat adapted then your ketone levels can drop right down. However I usually can't find the reference when I need it.

It will probably be buried somewhere in Volek and Phinney.

That is certainly my experience. Except when fasting my ketone levels are usually sub 1.0 mmol usually around 0.5.
When fasting they can go a lot higher.

Edit to add.. this might of course because I am having so much protein.. lightbulb moment.. but I'm afraid I enjoy carnivory too much to stop!

 

[kamsamji]

Cheers. Of you do get kicked out, and needless to say you get back into the low card train, is it a case of starting the whole process again to get your body to a fat adapted state? Or can it be recovered quicker as you were 'temporarily kicked' out?

 

[Bluetit1802]

I have no idea if and when I'm in ketosis. I have never bothered about it. However, I lost weight very easily, around 30g carbs, and normal blood sugars. I eat at least 100g protein and weigh about 57kg. I am not an exerciser. I have said this many times, I am a great believer in protein and have never restricted it. We need it for building and repairing, and healing. Every single cell needs it. As we get older we need it even more for general strength. If I fall over I want to be able to get up again.

 

[bulkbiker]

Cheers. Of you do get kicked out, and needless to say you get back into the low card train, is it a case of starting the whole process again to get your body to a fat adapted state? Or can it be recovered quicker as you were 'temporarily kicked' out?

Personally I don't eat many carbs... usually fewer than 20g per day never more than 30g.. so I reckon I have been in ketosis for the past 18 months. I think once you are in then you can get back quite quickly especially if you fast.

 

[Brunneria]

If your body is running comfortably with v low carbs then you are in ketosis.
You have to be.

The body needs fuel to function. It would take a heck of protein to offset enough carbs to fuel a nonketotic person through a day - so if those ‘normal’ carb levels are removed, then that fuel is either MASSIVE amounts of protein or reasonable amounts of fat. Dietary or body fat.

 

[SueJB]

I'm afraid I overeat my protein macro all the time with apparently little effect last year I averaged about 135g per day with a lean body mass of say 80kg so I should be having about 80g but it doesn't seem to have an adverse impact on my blood sugars so....
From what I have read it would seem that for most people with a partially "normalised" metabolism gluconeogensis could be a demand driven process rather than one that just happens which neatly explains my situation.

Thanks, I'll try but 56g seems so little for me

 

[bulkbiker]

Thanks, I'll try but 56g seems so little for me

If you are just starting I wouldn't worry too much about keeping it low..eat enough to feel full is way more important IMHO.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Thanks, I'll try but 56g seems so little for me

I don't weigh protein, but I think that most protein rich foods also have other stuff in.

Just for the hell of it I looked up the amount of protein in steak. 25 grams per 100 grams of steak.

 

[bulkbiker]

I don't weigh protein, but I think that most protein rich foods also have other stuff in.

Just for the hell of it I looked up the amount of protein in steak. 25 grams per 100 grams of steak.

That seems a bit high .. I thought most steaks were about 20g per 100g.

 

[Bluetit1802]

That seems a bit high .. I thought most steaks were about 20g per 100g.

Perhaps depends on the cut. Fillet steak is about 21g per 100g.
100g of tinned salmon is about the same. The tins I use are 105g in weight
Hard cheese is even more.

 

[Robbity]

I've never willingly restricted the amount of protein I eat - I agree with @Bluetit1802 that i'ts essential to maintain our bodies. My husband used to cook for both of us after he retired, andt he could be a real cheap skate with protoein, and I definitely siuffered from the lack before I begain to cook for myself again. So I eat low carb (generally under 50g carbs a day), adequate protein, and enough full fats to keep me from hunger.

Going down very low carb 20-25g carbs a day got me into ketosis, and continued low carbing re-started my body in fat burning mode, which I now believe is more important than actually being "in ketosis". My body uses whtever source of fuel is to hand, preferentially the few carbs i eat because they are quick and easy to process, then dietary and stored fat. I go in and out of ketosis, usually at fairly low levels and according to what fuel is currently available. Once our bodies are fat adapted (which is our natural state unless we are scoffing high carb foods like there's no tomorrow!), ketosis shouldn't be a real issue - IMO!

Roobbity

 

[SueJB]

I don't weigh protein, but I think that most protein rich foods also have other stuff in.

Just for the hell of it I looked up the amount of protein in steak. 25 grams per 100 grams of steak.

I didn't know that. 56g a day might not be too bad then