DESMOND Course .

[rab5]

I have been forced by my better half and daughter to attend this course on Thursday..

I have also been told to be compliant. The problem is I dont believe the NHS advice. From the moment I met my specialist DN I have had no confidence in the information given to me. Some of it was downright bollicks!

SO can anyone tell me how to deal with this course, is it worth asking questions etc etc. Or is it a lost cause

Funny answers are most welcome

\Rab

 

[Bluetit1802]

I didn't attend the course that was arranged by my surgery because the course leader was my own nurse.

 

[Guzzler]

I did not attend the course simply because these NHS courses seem to aim for the lowest common denominator but my gob doesn't understand this and runs away with itself.

I recently attended a pain management course nagged on by my family. Six seesions of which just one was useful. Never again.

 

[Kentoldlady1]

I have just done the xpert course. The leader was really nice, but didn't really know much.

She was t1d and told us that it was all our own fault. Not in so many words, but she did say that she keeps telling her husband that if he does not watch his weight he will end up with t2d.
She said that there are no long term studies of lchf, didn't know about its use for other health problems or why its a good idea.
She said take metformin with food because it works on the food response (?) and that it is useless to take it without food. Not because of tummy problems, but because of the insulin response!
She took time to explain the starvation mode (I kid you not) and said that t2ds must not use intermittent fasting.
She said that we could eat up to 260grms carbs a day, but less was ok. But not too much less. But we needed to eat carbs because that is brain food.
She said we can eat anything we like, so long as we don't eat too much. No mention of carb craving, hunger response etc.
She di9dnt know anything about reasons for t2d, except we are all fat. Not everyone in class is overweight. I am not, but she made no mention of that)
She did give us all a glucose metre and said she would ensure we all get given strips. Hurray!! But then said we only need to test once or in exceptional circumstances, twice a month. Not a day. A month. How that helps I am not sure.

On the other hand she did explain food labels, which was correct.

It has taken nearly a year to get on this course, and I am so glad for the delay. If I had got on it at the beginning I would not have gone looking for myself and found this forum, Jason fung and keto.

I did start out thinking I was going to argue, but decided not to--not because I am shy but because I think that for about 2/3 of the class this was probably the only input they have had into t2d. Some of us had already done a fair bit of digging, but most had not. Some had never heard of carbohydrates although we all had heard of calories.

Nothing I said was going to make any difference to her and it would have confused some of the others. I did disagree with her on the section about carbs and fasting, but she just skated over the bits I disagreed with--and just carried on.

My experience has just shown me that no one size fits all. Some people needed a great deal more than the few classes that were offered and some (like me) probably didn't need any. It is not a good system but is better than nothing.

There is a written appraisal and I will be honest. But I don't think much will change. It takes actual money to change anything. And as long as the nhs is willing to pay for this rubbish it will keep getting pushed on us as helpful.

Strangely enough, the book was far more helpful, more balanced and much more up to date. Think there might be a problem with the training.

Sorry, not a funny response!!!

 

[Guzzler]

I have just done the xpert course. The leader was really nice, but didn't really know much.

She was t1d and told us that it was all our own fault. Not in so many words, but she did say that she keeps telling her husband that if he does not watch his weight he will end up with t2d.
She said that there are no long term studies of lchf, didn't know about its use for other health problems or why its a good idea.
She said take metformin with food because it works on the food response (?) and that it is useless to take it without food. Not because of tummy problems, but because of the insulin response!
She took time to explain the starvation mode (I kid you not) and said that t2ds must not use intermittent fasting.
She said that we could eat up to 260grms carbs a day, but less was ok. But not too much less. But we needed to eat carbs because that is brain food.
She said we can eat anything we like, so long as we don't eat too much. No mention of carb craving, hunger response etc.
She di9dnt know anything about reasons for t2d, except we are all fat. Not everyone in class is overweight. I am not, but she made no mention of that)
She did give us all a glucose metre and said she would ensure we all get given strips. Hurray!! But then said we only need to test once or in exceptional circumstances, twice a month. Not a day. A month. How that helps I am not sure.

On the other hand she did explain food labels, which was correct.

It has taken nearly a year to get on this course, and I am so glad for the delay. If I had got on it at the beginning I would not have gone looking for myself and found this forum, Jason fung and keto.

I did start out thinking I was going to argue, but decided not to--not because I am shy but because I think that for about 2/3 of the class this was probably the only input they have had into t2d. Some of us had already done a fair bit of digging, but most had not. Some had never heard of carbohydrates although we all had heard of calories.

Nothing I said was going to make any difference to her and it would have confused some of the others. I did disagree with her on the section about carbs and fasting, but she just skated over the bits I disagreed with--and just carried on.

My experience has just shown me that no one size fits all. Some people needed a great deal more than the few classes that were offered and some (like me) probably didn't need any. It is not a good system but is better than nothing.

There is a written appraisal and I will be honest. But I don't think much will change. It takes actual money to change anything. And as long as the nhs is willing to pay for this rubbish it will keep getting pushed on us as helpful.

Strangely enough, the book was far more helpful, more balanced and much more up to date. Think there might be a problem with the training.

Sorry, not a funny response!!!

Her advice on Metformin is possibly why so many people think that it actively lowers their blood glucose to the extent that they can carry on eating all the foods they always have but in smaller quantities. If the lady is a trained HCP then someone needs to take her to one side and have a quiet word.... or a small smack.

 

[Goonergal]

I attended the DESMOND course. Did ask some questions and made a few pointed remarks that didn’t go down too well. Waste of a day - and they handed out biscuits!

 

[eggs11]

I have just done the xpert course. The leader was really nice, but didn't really know much.

She was t1d and told us that it was all our own fault. Not in so many words, but she did say that she keeps telling her husband that if he does not watch his weight he will end up with t2d.
She said that there are no long term studies of lchf, didn't know about its use for other health problems or why its a good idea.
She said take metformin with food because it works on the food response (?) and that it is useless to take it without food. Not because of tummy problems, but because of the insulin response!
She took time to explain the starvation mode (I kid you not) and said that t2ds must not use intermittent fasting.
She said that we could eat up to 260grms carbs a day, but less was ok. But not too much less. But we needed to eat carbs because that is brain food.
She said we can eat anything we like, so long as we don't eat too much. No mention of carb craving, hunger response etc.
She di9dnt know anything about reasons for t2d, except we are all fat. Not everyone in class is overweight. I am not, but she made no mention of that)
She did give us all a glucose metre and said she would ensure we all get given strips. Hurray!! But then said we only need to test once or in exceptional circumstances, twice a month. Not a day. A month. How that helps I am not sure.

On the other hand she did explain food labels, which was correct.

It has taken nearly a year to get on this course, and I am so glad for the delay. If I had got on it at the beginning I would not have gone looking for myself and found this forum, Jason fung and keto.

I did start out thinking I was going to argue, but decided not to--not because I am shy but because I think that for about 2/3 of the class this was probably the only input they have had into t2d. Some of us had already done a fair bit of digging, but most had not. Some had never heard of carbohydrates although we all had heard of calories.

Nothing I said was going to make any difference to her and it would have confused some of the others. I did disagree with her on the section about carbs and fasting, but she just skated over the bits I disagreed with--and just carried on.

My experience has just shown me that no one size fits all. Some people needed a great deal more than the few classes that were offered and some (like me) probably didn't need any. It is not a good system but is better than nothing.

There is a written appraisal and I will be honest. But I don't think much will change. It takes actual money to change anything. And as long as the nhs is willing to pay for this rubbish it will keep getting pushed on us as helpful.

Strangely enough, the book was far more helpful, more balanced and much more up to date. Think there might be a problem with the training.

Sorry, not a funny response!!!

Wow!

 

[daisyduck]

I have just done the xpert course. The leader was really nice, but didn't really know much.

She was t1d and told us that it was all our own fault. Not in so many words, but she did say that she keeps telling her husband that if he does not watch his weight he will end up with t2d.
She said that there are no long term studies of lchf, didn't know about its use for other health problems or why its a good idea.
She said take metformin with food because it works on the food response (?) and that it is useless to take it without food. Not because of tummy problems, but because of the insulin response!
She took time to explain the starvation mode (I kid you not) and said that t2ds must not use intermittent fasting.
She said that we could eat up to 260grms carbs a day, but less was ok. But not too much less. But we needed to eat carbs because that is brain food.
She said we can eat anything we like, so long as we don't eat too much. No mention of carb craving, hunger response etc.
She di9dnt know anything about reasons for t2d, except we are all fat. Not everyone in class is overweight. I am not, but she made no mention of that)
She did give us all a glucose metre and said she would ensure we all get given strips. Hurray!! But then said we only need to test once or in exceptional circumstances, twice a month. Not a day. A month. How that helps I am not sure.

On the other hand she did explain food labels, which was correct.

It has taken nearly a year to get on this course, and I am so glad for the delay. If I had got on it at the beginning I would not have gone looking for myself and found this forum, Jason fung and keto.

I did start out thinking I was going to argue, but decided not to--not because I am shy but because I think that for about 2/3 of the class this was probably the only input they have had into t2d. Some of us had already done a fair bit of digging, but most had not. Some had never heard of carbohydrates although we all had heard of calories.

Nothing I said was going to make any difference to her and it would have confused some of the others. I did disagree with her on the section about carbs and fasting, but she just skated over the bits I disagreed with--and just carried on.

My experience has just shown me that no one size fits all. Some people needed a great deal more than the few classes that were offered and some (like me) probably didn't need any. It is not a good system but is better than nothing.

There is a written appraisal and I will be honest. But I don't think much will change. It takes actual money to change anything. And as long as the nhs is willing to pay for this rubbish it will keep getting pushed on us as helpful.

Strangely enough, the book was far more helpful, more balanced and much more up to date. Think there might be a problem with the training.

Sorry, not a funny response!!!

Ditto ! I was so frustrated by my course and did try to ask a few things. It wasn't very successful. They did a bit where they had plastic foods on a table and we had to put sugar cubes next to them to guess how much they contained. Ok in itself but I asked .. "How many of these "sugar cubes" are we aiming for in a day ?" After a bit of faffing around she came up with 22 !! and didn't know how many carbs that entailed. I kept my trap shut for the second session and just smiled and nodded.

 

[Mr_Pot]

If you have educated yourself from this site or elsewhere then the DESMOND course is probably not going to help you. However many people on the course I attended did not have even basic knowledge about diabetes and some of them had been diagnosed years ago, so for them the course was very useful. If you want to know what the course contains it is available online.
https://www.mydesmond.com/public/

 

[sally and james]

I have been forced by my better half and daughter to attend this course on Thursday.

When you get home, tell them that it was a brilliant course and that the latest advice is that you should cut right down on all carbs and that it is strongly advised that families support you by eating a broadly similar diet.
Perhaps you could secretly print off some of the excellent food "posters" showing where the carbs are, from Diet Doctor https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/visual-guides before you go and then stick them on the front of the fridge when you get home.
That should sort it!
Sally

 

[Kentoldlady1]

Her advice on Metformin is possibly why so many people think that it actively lowers their blood glucose to the extent that they can carry on eating all the foods they always have but in smaller quantities. If the lady is a trained HCP then someone needs to take her to one side and have a quiet word.... or a small smack.

No idea about her work history, but she is not a hcp. She has t1d and has done the course for 10 years, so is very "qualified"!!!!!

 

[bulkbiker]

I have just done the xpert course. The leader was really nice, but didn't really know much.

She was t1d and told us that it was all our own fault. Not in so many words, but she did say that she keeps telling her husband that if he does not watch his weight he will end up with t2d.
She said that there are no long term studies of lchf, didn't know about its use for other health problems or why its a good idea.
She said take metformin with food because it works on the food response (?) and that it is useless to take it without food. Not because of tummy problems, but because of the insulin response!
She took time to explain the starvation mode (I kid you not) and said that t2ds must not use intermittent fasting.
She said that we could eat up to 260grms carbs a day, but less was ok. But not too much less. But we needed to eat carbs because that is brain food.
She said we can eat anything we like, so long as we don't eat too much. No mention of carb craving, hunger response etc.
She di9dnt know anything about reasons for t2d, except we are all fat. Not everyone in class is overweight. I am not, but she made no mention of that)
She did give us all a glucose metre and said she would ensure we all get given strips. Hurray!! But then said we only need to test once or in exceptional circumstances, twice a month. Not a day. A month. How that helps I am not sure.

On the other hand she did explain food labels, which was correct.

It has taken nearly a year to get on this course, and I am so glad for the delay. If I had got on it at the beginning I would not have gone looking for myself and found this forum, Jason fung and keto.

I did start out thinking I was going to argue, but decided not to--not because I am shy but because I think that for about 2/3 of the class this was probably the only input they have had into t2d. Some of us had already done a fair bit of digging, but most had not. Some had never heard of carbohydrates although we all had heard of calories.

Nothing I said was going to make any difference to her and it would have confused some of the others. I did disagree with her on the section about carbs and fasting, but she just skated over the bits I disagreed with--and just carried on.

My experience has just shown me that no one size fits all. Some people needed a great deal more than the few classes that were offered and some (like me) probably didn't need any. It is not a good system but is better than nothing.

There is a written appraisal and I will be honest. But I don't think much will change. It takes actual money to change anything. And as long as the nhs is willing to pay for this rubbish it will keep getting pushed on us as helpful.

Strangely enough, the book was far more helpful, more balanced and much more up to date. Think there might be a problem with the training.

Sorry, not a funny response!!!

Wow and I thought that the Xpert course would have been a bit more up to date than the DESMOND.. obviously not. Thanks for sitting through it for us though.

 

[bulkbiker]

When you get home, tell them that it was a brilliant course and that the latest advice is that you should cut right down on all carbs and that it is strongly advised that families support you by eating a broadly similar diet.
Perhaps you could secretly print off some of the excellent food "posters" showing where the carbs are, from Diet Doctor https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/visual-guides before you go and then stick them on the front of the fridge when you get home.
That should sort it!
Sally

Pure evil genius! And I say that in the most complementary way imaginable..

 

[Guzzler]

No idea about her work history, but she is not a hcp. She has t1d and has done the course for 10 years, so is very "qualified"!!!!!

Well, the info on Metformin is wrong now and was wrong ten years ago so someone obviously dropped the ball. As I said earlier, I did not accept the invitation to attend but I am absolutely shocked that someone leading a class could make such a fundamental error.

 

[Daibell]

Based on many posts over the years a good deal of any diabetes course content will be useless NHS advice, but some trainers are up to date and good and there will always be good points. Be prepared to bite your lip and either keep quiet or argue; your choice. I'm glad I've never been invited to any course by my surgery in 15 years but I'm a nerdy 'know it all'!

 

[Guzzler]

When you get home, tell them that it was a brilliant course and that the latest advice is that you should cut right down on all carbs and that it is strongly advised that families support you by eating a broadly similar diet.
Perhaps you could secretly print off some of the excellent food "posters" showing where the carbs are, from Diet Doctor https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/visual-guides before you go and then stick them on the front of the fridge when you get home.
That should sort it!
Sally

A Cunning Plan! I love it.

 

[DJC3]

I’m booked on this course later in the month so look forward to your take on it @rab5.

Bit disappointing that DESMOND and Xpert both seem so rubbish, but maybe not surprising sadly.

I had to laugh at the handing out of biscuits at the course @Goonergal attended. Brilliant! Good old NHS.

 

[caroline_92]

I attended the DESMOND course. Did ask some questions and made a few pointed remarks that didn’t go down too well. Waste of a day - and they handed out biscuits!

Same experience for me! Including the biscuits.
I did appreciate talking to, and empathizing with, other newly diagnosed diabetics on the course. It did make me realise how much I actually knew already (mainly from the Atkins diet and Dr Bernstein in those days) and armed with this, I was going to be absolutely fine.
And I was, having put T2 into remission in just a few months after eating low carb and following my meter. Ignoring the NHS diet advice. That was nearly 7 years ago now...

 

[Bluetit1802]

I’m booked on this course later in the month so look forward to your take on it @rab5.

Bit disappointing that DESMOND and Xpert both seem so rubbish, but maybe not surprising sadly.

I had to laugh at the handing out of biscuits at the course @Goonergal attended. Brilliant! Good old NHS.

So much depends on the trainer. I don't know about the Desmond course, but the x-pert course trainers are invited to regular update training sessions. I know my nurse-trainer goes on them and has a very good knowledge about all things diabetic. This wasn't the case 4 years ago when I was invited, but Tracy Deakin has run/organised some sessions since then. My nurse even had a copy of her "Eat Fat" book.

 

[SueJB]

I have just done the xpert course. The leader was really nice, but didn't really know much.

She was t1d and told us that it was all our own fault. Not in so many words, but she did say that she keeps telling her husband that if he does not watch his weight he will end up with t2d.
She said that there are no long term studies of lchf, didn't know about its use for other health problems or why its a good idea.
She said take metformin with food because it works on the food response (?) and that it is useless to take it without food. Not because of tummy problems, but because of the insulin response!
She took time to explain the starvation mode (I kid you not) and said that t2ds must not use intermittent fasting.
She said that we could eat up to 260grms carbs a day, but less was ok. But not too much less. But we needed to eat carbs because that is brain food.
She said we can eat anything we like, so long as we don't eat too much. No mention of carb craving, hunger response etc.
She di9dnt know anything about reasons for t2d, except we are all fat. Not everyone in class is overweight. I am not, but she made no mention of that)
She did give us all a glucose metre and said she would ensure we all get given strips. Hurray!! But then said we only need to test once or in exceptional circumstances, twice a month. Not a day. A month. How that helps I am not sure.

On the other hand she did explain food labels, which was correct.

It has taken nearly a year to get on this course, and I am so glad for the delay. If I had got on it at the beginning I would not have gone looking for myself and found this forum, Jason fung and keto.

I did start out thinking I was going to argue, but decided not to--not because I am shy but because I think that for about 2/3 of the class this was probably the only input they have had into t2d. Some of us had already done a fair bit of digging, but most had not. Some had never heard of carbohydrates although we all had heard of calories.

Nothing I said was going to make any difference to her and it would have confused some of the others. I did disagree with her on the section about carbs and fasting, but she just skated over the bits I disagreed with--and just carried on.

My experience has just shown me that no one size fits all. Some people needed a great deal more than the few classes that were offered and some (like me) probably didn't need any. It is not a good system but is better than nothing.

There is a written appraisal and I will be honest. But I don't think much will change. It takes actual money to change anything. And as long as the nhs is willing to pay for this rubbish it will keep getting pushed on us as helpful.

Strangely enough, the book was far more helpful, more balanced and much more up to date. Think there might be a problem with the training.

Sorry, not a funny response!!!

I had to hit the like button although I found the situation appalling. I think I'd have had the same response and kept quiet and then home and had a good rant. I really do expect people who run training courses to be more knowledgeable than course participants. They want to put me on a Daphne!! Shan't go!