Interesting view on Fats and Protein.

[Guzzler]

It was great to see a TOFI GP T2. I was interested in his view on levels of fat and protein while on LCHF.
A dedicated Clinic is a great idea and I hope that this concept is soon proven to be a worthwhile investment for our NHS.

 

[Goonergal]

Thanks @Guzzler not got all the way through it yet - have to get to work - but interesting so far and will pick up again tonight.

 

[Begonia]

Also interesting comment that fructose ignites the flame and then glucose adds logs to the fire. So pointing at fructose as the trigger.
I thought I was eating healthily with my 7 a day of bananas grapes and melon !!

 

[SueJB]

It was great to see a TOFI GP T2. I was interested in his view on levels of fat and protein while on LCHF.
A dedicated Clinic is a great idea and I hope that this concept is soon proven to be a worthwhile investment for our NHS.

Interesting. I find death by powerpoint annoying when the info could be better presented.

 

[SueJB]

Also interesting comment that fructose ignites the flame and then glucose adds logs to the fire. So pointing at fructose as the trigger.
I thought I was eating healthily with my 7 a day of bananas grapes and melon !!

I was interested in the fructose idea. I've cut out fruit except the berries and can't go in the fruit aisle in shops anymore

 

[Guzzler]

Interesting. I find death by powerpoint annoying when the info could be better presented.

I did thi k at one point that this was his first presentation for that reason and because of the way he was holding tne mike.

 

[Guzzler]

I was interested in the fructose idea. I've cut out fruit except the berries and can't go in the fruit aisle in shops anymore

I am currently halfway through a lengthy lecture by Dr. Gary Fettke whose pet is Fructose. He is an orthopaedic surgeon so his endocrinology background is not tip top, or it wasn't, so his explanation of the metabolic pathway for fructose was something I could understand as it is put in its simplest way.
He mentions fructose in connection with LDL which I have not heard of before, however, this is not an up to date lecture. Fascinating nonetheless.

 

[AloeSvea]

Well, yeah. I guess it does make sense. I eat LCHF for weight maintenance/better BG regulation, so don't think about eating low-carb for weight loss, but it makes a lot of sense to get your healthy fat with your protein source (if not a vegetarian/vegan) ie from meat, poultry, fish and seafood, and non-starchy veg.

I liked his way of talking about the big-time fats like cheese and cream as being condiments only, if going for weight loss. Makes sense!

And diabetics/those with metabolic dysfunction watching the fats, but not the protein, because you may want your body to be burning the fat actually stored in your body, not eating it. (Can't help thinking it's all very Atkins, which is handy if you were wanting to recommend this way of eating to someone who wants neat graphics and pix to help them along - just direct them to Atkins phase 1 (if that is what it is called from memory?). All makes sense.

 

[Robbity]

I think a lot of what he says is really just plain low carb common sense.

My understanding has been that protein is the piviot around which you balance carbs and fats. As I see it the aim is to keep carbs low, eat sufficient protein for you "ideal" body weight, and if wanting to maintain weight, eat enough fat. If you want to lose weight then you eat less fat, so that you then use your body's stored fat - or eat more if you need to gain. Protein uis used for body maintenance/repair, and carb/fats as fuel for energy needs.

I don't know what the current Atkins diet is like, but I based my initial journey into low carb/ketogenic eating four years ago on his "Induction Phase" (as opposed to my initial reduced carbs effort) , then later added low carb fruit and nuts ad a bit more fat, and these are what I would cut out again first if I ever intend to lose more weight.

And as long as I'm burning fat of some sort, I don't actually worry about my ketone levels now. As long as I'm no longer suffering from serious brain fog and can think straight!, I know I'm getting enough fat/ ketones to keep it happy.

@Begonia, I wasn't aware of issues with fructose either, until recently when @Bluetit1802 pointed this out. I'd believed that simply cutting out high carb fruits completely , and cutting right down on acceptable low carb ones was all I (as a fruit lover) very reluctantly needed to do. I found some useful info on fructose content on a site run by Gary Fettke's wife, Belinda, but if you Google there's a lot more information, including some useful information here: http://janeshealthykitchen.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Fructose-grams-in-fruit.jpg?x59486

From memory - there's a thread somewhere with a graph showing tthat fructose consumption in the USA crept up from around 10g a day in the 1960s to around a rather scary 70g 40 years later, and I imagine that much of it comes from additons to food and drnks, presumably due in part to their use of high fructose corn syrup. (I hink the same graph is on the healthy Kithcen site too.) 20g fructose a day is apparenty the maximum amount our bodies can handle, and low carb fruits are well below this level, but there are also (usually very) small amounts of fructose to be found in vegetables too, so it's possibly a case of how much is OK/safe to consume rather than avoiding it completelty?

Robbity

PS I thought the good doctor was very nervous and rather woffly, so maybe due to first time speaking in public?

 

[rab5]

My understanding is that eating more fat doesnt make you gain weight. Eating less fat doesnt make you lose weight.
`Carbs (insulin) are the problem when it comes to weight gain/loss
Low Carbs High Fat........ Carbs being the major player in diabetes.

I could be wrong .

 

[Bluetit1802]

My understanding is that eating more fat doesnt make you gain weight. Eating less fat doesnt make you lose weight.
`Carbs (insulin) are the problem when it comes to weight gain/loss
Low Carbs High Fat........ Carbs being the major player in diabetes.

I could be wrong .

The problem with fructose is that it is dealt with in the liver rather than the stomach and is a major culprit in giving us a fatty liver and weight gain.

https://www.dietdoctor.com/fructose-fatty-liver-sugar-toxin

and have a look at how insulinogenic many common fruits are (high insulin levels = weight gain)
https://public.tableau.com/profile/christoffer.green#!/vizhome/InsulinogenicFoodData/Dashboard1

 

[Guzzler]

They added to their problems in North America by the widespread use of High Fructose Corn Syrup.

 

[Hotpepper20000]

They added to their problems in North America by the widespread use of High Fructose Corn Syrup.

Also it used to be that you couldn’t buy tropical fruits all year round. Except canned and frozen and then they where expensive and where only consumed occasionally. Who heard of fresh pineapple and mangos in the northern hemisphere in January in the 70s and early 80s? Now they are shipped all year round from all other the world.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Also it used to be that you couldn’t buy tropical fruits all year round. Except canned and frozen and then they where expensive and where only consumed occasionally. Who heard of fresh pineapple and mangos in the northern hemisphere in January in the 70s and early 80s? Now they are shipped all year round from all other the world.

Indeed. And goodness knows what they have been subjected to to preserve them. Quite apart from travelling thousands of miles, supermarkets often store them in central warehouses for a long time, along with their veggies.

We always had tinned fruit when I was growing up in the 50s, and when I was first married in the 60s and 70s. We didn't have freezers then (and were lucky to have a fridge) so no frozen ones. Tinned peaches and Carnation cream is one of my memories of Sunday tea at grandma's house. (weirdly, with a slice of bread!)

 

[AloeSvea]

My understanding is that eating more fat doesnt make you gain weight. Eating less fat doesnt make you lose weight.
`Carbs (insulin) are the problem when it comes to weight gain/loss
Low Carbs High Fat........ Carbs being the major player in diabetes.

I could be wrong .

Yeah, I operated on this basis, and have talked about this to folks asking me about low-carbing for weight loss too.

But it is true it seems - that many online talk about not losing weight on LCHF with the HF well and truly there. And I have to admit that I have never eaten this way to lose weight. So this dude, and Amy Berger too have addressed this rather eloquently, or - trying to be Szabo-ishly! .

I had already lost my bulk post diagnosis, before going LCHF - just on moderate carbing actually, and walking heaps. And I mean heaps. (It also operated as stress management - I was diagnosed at a level of 93! I got so afraid of losing my feet I wanted to use those feet as much as I could.) I lost so much weight that way and so quickly that they couldn't read my cholesterol levels, like at all, I had so much fat swishing around in my bloodstream the triglycerides were so OTT from being released from my fat cells. So for me LCHF is about weight maintenance. (I just need to look at carbs and I get plump.)

But as Robbity says - it is common sense if you think about it. Low-carb common sense. If you have fat on your body that you need to lose, and your body needs to use it as energy in order for it to, you know, go - it won't use it as energy if it has plenty of fat coming in (she says sipping her morning coffee with a big dollop of cream swimming on the top) .

But, it is also true that fat and carbs are used and stored differently on the body. In a keto/very low carb bod the cheese and cream and pork crackling get used as energy rather than glucose, and apparently fat burning is a good slow burn, which is great if your liver is wrongly spitting out selfmade glucose all the time and you can't afford to put any more in.

But easy to test how higher protein lower fat will affect you and your blood glucose, and your creeping belly fat (speaking for myself here) - you can experiment with it. Test your blood glucose levels. Use your tape measure around your waist and see what happens.

 

[AloeSvea]

Yes - dedicated low-carb clinics to treating metabollic diseases and dysfunction is a great idea. Good that you posted this @Guzzler.

I would never be able to afford it, so yeah - our socialised medicine countries would have to invest in them for it to really work.

Now I feel sad. Low-carbing clinics vs bariatric surgery clinics. (I started watching my own countries TV-love song to bariatric surgery - 'The Big Ward' last night.)

How long will we have to wait for it? For attendance to be on subsidised prescription?

 

[Guzzler]

Yes - dedicated low-carb clinics to treating metabollic diseases and dysfunction is a great idea. Good that you posted this @Guzzler.

I would never be able to afford it, so yeah - our socialised medicine countries would have to invest in them for it to really work.

Now I feel sad. Low-carbing clinics vs bariatric surgery clinics. (I started watching my own countries TV-love song to bariatric surgery - 'The Big Ward' last night.)

How long will we have to wait for it? For attendance to be on subsidised prescription?

A very, very long time, I fear. Private health care bodies, perhaps smelling the big bucks, would charge exorbitant amounts for a service like this first. There would have to be a lot more long term studies done to convince the old guard that a lowered carb lifestyle would save lives, improve the quality of life and save Social Health Care systems dosh. I can't see this happening any time soon.

 

[Robbity]

@rab5: Yes - eating normal amounts of fat won't make you fat - it's regularly eating more than you need for your energy requirements that is likely to do so. Assuming that you have the right balance of fats and (low) carbs to start with your body can use both as a source of fuel. If you eat more fat than your body needs for fuel then being efficient and frugal it will store it away for future use; conversely If you eat less than your basic energy requirements then your body will turn to stored fats to make up the deficit. Carbs provide short term fuel which can be stored, but on a high carb diet, can't be retrieved again to use as fuel. Persuading your body into ketosis/fat burning mode re-activates the ability to access and use stored fat as fuel so when you regularly eat less than you need, you'll be burning off some of this stored fat, and so eventually end up lighter.

But I see that @AloeSvea has beaten me to it, and expained it very nicely.

Robbity

 

[Guzzler]

@rab5: Yes - eating normal amounts of fat won't make you fat - it's regularly eating more than you need for your energy requirements that is likely to do so. Assuming that you have the right balance of fats and (low) carbs to start with your body can use both as a source of fuel. If you eat more fat than your body needs for fuel then being efficient and frugal it will store it away for future use; conversely If you eat less than your basic energy requirements then your body will turn to stored fats to make up the deficit. Carbs provide short term fuel which can be stored, but on a high carb diet, can't be retrieved again to use as fuel. Persuading your body into ketosis/fat burning mode re-activates the ability to access and use stored fat as fuel so when you regularly eat less than you need, you'll be burning off some of this stored fat, and so eventually end up lighter.

But I see that @AloeSvea has beaten me to it, and expained it very nicely.

Robbity

I agree. In the simplest way I think of my levels of dietary fat as 'topping up' so that I can maintain my weight rather than gain/lose it. It is a balancing act, though and may take time to fine tune this for the individual. I find that maintaining is harder than actually losing.

 

[Robbity]

I agree. In the simplest way I think of my levels of dietary fat as 'topping up' so that I can maintain my weight rather than gain/lose it. It is a balancing act, though and may take time to fine tune this for the individual. I find that maintaining is harder than actually losing.

I've found just the opposite - after initially losing a lot of weight very quickly, I've remained the same (within a kilo or so up or down) for nearly four years now. I used to joke on the Frday weigh in thread that my scales were permanently stuck at 95 kilos. But since my glucose levels are reasonably low and normally very stable I've actually become disinclined to bother about losing any more... And well padded Robbities are definitely much better suited to cope with all this nasty cold snowy stuff currently floating around.

Robbity