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eat meat drink water

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Really interesting reading, have noticed that I don't feel the need to include veg every day anymore and as a result most days are under 10g carbs, some days closer to 3..... I would say that I feel brighter mentally and am now looking to reduce my veg intake as feel there is enough evidence here to convince me that they are not an absolute necessity.
Not sure that zero carb is for me as the occasional keto shortbread biscuit and double cream do feature!
 
I have never been a veg eater. A few with the Sunday roast and apart from that just lots of mushrooms daily and peas a couple of times a week. I have survived so far.
 
Contralto said:
I have no idea why you quoted me. My only point was that there is no ONLY meat and water traditional diet on the planet and that all diets primarily meat (or fish) and water on the planet do have other additions to that diet. If you have teste data for your hypothesis that no other additions than meat/fish and water are necessary, please post them
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I quoted you because you you said that ‘even indigenous communities... supplement with seasonal veg’. (Not a verbatim quote) implying that the supplementation is necessary.

And, as I stated, the onus should not be on whether veg is commonplace or widespread, but rather for others to demonstrate that eating without veg won't meet all requirements.

I have no interest in providing examples of indigenous populations’ ways of eating, since they are irrelevant to my lifestyle and my available food sources.

Can I be active, healthy, and nutritionally supplied without eating vegetable matter?

I think so. My reading supports it. I am finding it sustainable.
So far it has worked like a dream.
In fact I am feeling better than when I was eating several portions of veg a day.
My gut health has improved delightfully.

Edited for clarity.
 
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like most I was grew up with the must eat your veg mantra , 5 day[or is that 10 a day now?] fruit n veg.
once the low carb requirement kicked in and carby veg went out the window my desire for veg diminished.[as well as appetite]
I did have some concern about this, people saying you need veg for vitamins etc, this and that veg or fruit is a rich source of vit etc etc.
But when you compare animal product to veg the veg tends to have a laughably small content compared animal products.
Obvious when you think about how nature works.
These days I still enjoy my salads but meat n fat are primary food.
Though to be able to gobble up anything like a garbage compactor without biological consequences would still be a nice attribute to have when needed!
 
I just checked out in some of the medical archives. And found out (to my own surprise actually :)) that it is indeed possible to survive entirely just by drinking water and eating meat. But. There is always that 'but' isn't there? :)
You will have to engage in eating some variations of meat and also many parts of the animal that you typically don't engage in if just buying your meats at your local supermarket or butcher.

Reason being that normal meat offerings do not contain all nutrient components that you do need long-term to survive. So you need to have access and eat a borad selection of meats like e.g. the traditional Inuit's do/did. (seals, whale, caribou and fish) and its important you indulge also in the very fatty parts, as they contain nutrients that only at fat diluted and therefore not accessible in sufficient quantities in plain meat pieces. And next to this, you literally need to eat every part of the animal! And some of it you will be required to eat raw! E.g. raw meat contains vitamin C which is otherwise lost if cooked. Next you have the skins, hooves, bones etc that also needs to be taken in. But yes, its definitely possible.

Bon appétit ! :)
 
Yuck! Can't think of anything worse, but good luck to those who enjoy eating meat, I'm a little envious, but it's not for me (or my bowels!). I'm interested in this thread though :)
 
I love offal. :wacky:

Regarding the old Vit C chestnut, things are now appearing quite different, and the established ideas are being debunked (aren't they always?)
https://zerocarbzen.com/vitamin-c/
The key thing though, is that this alternate Vit C 'pathway' only activates in the presence of extremely low carbs.

I mean, everyone 'knows' that we get scurvy without fresh veg, don't we? Lime juice needed for sailors, etc. etc.
But they were eating a diet of salt pork AND ships biscuits (and weavils, presumably) which is both high protein, and high carb, so the alternate pathway didn't switch on...
 
Brunneria said:
I love offal. :wacky:
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Darn, you are pretty exotic! :)
Personally I am ok with well prepared and cleaned liver, heart and kidney stuff. Well prepared and with right sauce/veggies it can be top class (Hannibal Lector anyone?)
But lung tissue and tripe and that kind I find revolting. Though have been lost in the Galicia region in Spain and some Asian corners as a poor student exploring the world, where it was the local delicatessen and the way to survive on next to no money... :eek:

With regards to the C vitamins I am pretty happy with the raw steak tartare!
But please, can I have my herbs and preferred veggies aka olive oil, onion, capers, parsley, salt & pepper with it???
 
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My indigenous friends enjoy their "bush tucker" which includes roots / tubers / bulbs of certain plants to go with Wichety Grubs and Goanna.

The only meat they will not eat is Koala.
 
Not all that glitters is gold, so please lets throw in a little bit of a broader perspective.
Changing diet is no easy feat and should be done with care and attention, especially so for diabetics.
Keeping your eyes and ears open and be observant of symptoms of worsening health of various kind is therefore always a must no matter what other individuals may say of whatever diet regime they appear to succeed with.
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/11/danger-of-zero-carb-diets-iii-scurvy/
 
Celsus said:
Not all that glitters is gold, so please lets throw in a little bit of a broader perspective.
Changing diet is no easy feat and should be done with care and attention, especially so for diabetics.
Keeping your eyes and ears open and be observant of symptoms of worsening health of various kind is therefore always a must no matter what other individuals may say of whatever diet regime they appear to succeed with.
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/11/danger-of-zero-carb-diets-iii-scurvy/
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Yes, everyone should always be observant of symptoms of worsening health regardless whether there has been a change of diet or not.

However, scurvy and vitamins C were already addressed previously in this thread. After almost three years of zero carb I've see no signs of scurvy in me. I've never heard of anyone on a zero carb diet getting scurvy.

The person writing "Danger of Zero-Carb Diets III: Scurvy" did not follow a zero carb diet (i.e. animal derived food only). He describes his diet as follows: " I ate a lot of vegetables but no starches and hardly any fruit." He says he developed scurvy despite "eating many vegetables plus taking a multivitamin containing 90 mg of vitamin C." So obviously his scurvy had nothing to do with being on a zero carb (i.e. meat only) diet, since he wasn't on such a diet.

I think it would have been helpful if he had provided a lot more detail on his diet, since he claims his diet was partly responsible for him getting scurvy.

He concludes that his scurvy was the result of a chronic bacterial infection and a chronic fungal infection combined with a very low carb diet. It's odd that he cured his scurvy with massive vitamin C supplements, not by curing his infections or eating more carbs. If he had cured his scurvy by changing his diet to include more carbs, I might be persuaded that his so called "zero carb" diet had something to do with his scurvy.

Clearly his experience was very atypical (he got scurvy while consuming enough vitamin C that should have prevented it) and it likely had little to do with his diet.
 
Tipetoo said:
My indigenous friends enjoy their "bush tucker" which includes roots / tubers / bulbs of certain plants to go with Wichety Grubs and Goanna.

The only meat they will not eat is Koala.
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They have started to behave more responsibly after they did in the Dodo? :D
 
Celsus said:
Not all that glitters is gold, so please lets throw in a little bit of a broader perspective.
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/11/danger-of-zero-carb-diets-iii-scurvy/
Click to expand...

I agree that glittery stuff is often misleading.
But so is that article.

The author seems very confused about the differences between paleo, keto and zero carb diets (he says he was on a diet with lots of veg and ‘hardly any fruit’) which he describes as being ‘a near zero carb diet’.
Not in my book. Or in the books of the zero carbers I have read about and interacted with.

He also says he had chronic bacterial and fungal infections, while eating this ‘near ZC diet’ AND supplementing with Vitamin C.
Then, because he developed scurvy, he blames it on ZC???
Later in the article he acknowledges that infections will increase Vit C needs.

I think that his claims that this proves ZC => scurvy is illogical.

Having said that, scurvy is a nasty thing, and if anyone wants to supplement to avoid risking getting scurvy, then that is their choice. I encourage choice.

I think supplementation can be very useful.
I supplement with Vit D3 because I had a blood test that showed a deficiency. Then I add in magnesium, K2 and vit C because they all work together for max benefit.

So I am not claiming that personally forswear all supplements as ZCer. But i don’t find the info in that article useful to inform my views of ZC, or scurvy.

Edited to add: oops, @NoCrbs4Me posted while I was typing - and he did so more coherently. :)
 
Brunneria said:
I agree that glittery stuff is often misleading.
But so is that article.

The author seems very confused about the differences between paleo, keto and zero carb diets (he says he was on a diet with lots of veg and ‘hardly any fruit’) which he describes as being ‘a near zero carb diet’.
Not in my book. Or in the books of the zero carbers I have read about and interacted with.

He also says he had chronic bacterial and fungal infections, while eating this ‘near ZC diet’ AND supplementing with Vitamin C.
Then, because he developed scurvy, he blames it on ZC???
Later in the article he acknowledges that infections will increase Vit C needs.

I think that his claims that this proves ZC => scurvy is illogical.

Having said that, scurvy is a nasty thing, and if anyone wants to supplement to avoid risking getting scurvy, then that is their choice. I encourage choice.

I think supplementation can be very useful.
I supplement with Vit D3 because I had a blood test that showed a deficiency. Then I add in magnesium, K2 and vit C because they all work together for max benefit.

So I am not claiming that personally forswear all supplements as ZCer. But i don’t find the info in that article useful to inform my views of ZC, or scurvy.

Edited to add: oops, @NoCrbs4Me posted while I was typing - and he did so more coherently. :)
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Agreed, I don't see ZC as a direct road to scurvy misery, as the choice of veggies to easily avoid it are plenty!
So when removing the adored potato from your diet, you just need to replace its c-vitamins to come from something else.
I think it is more of an issue for the pure 'water and meat only' kind of diets, which was the subject of this thread and reason why I think some broader sensitivity about the potential dietary consequences should always be well considered!
 
Celsus said:
Agreed, I don't see ZC as a direct road to scurvy misery, as the choice of veggies to easily avoid it are plenty!
So when removing the adored potato from your diet, you just need to replace its c-vitamins to come from something else.
I think it is more of an issue for the pure 'water and meat only' kind of diets, which was the subject of this thread and reason why I think some broader sensitivity about the potential dietary consequences should always be well considered!
Click to expand...

I think you have misunderstood.
This thread is about ZC which is a meat and water only diet.

Therefore, debating adding veg alternatives to replace ‘the beloved potato’ is not on topic, and not relevant to any discussion about ZC.

Dietary consequences should always be considered when switching ways of eating. That is common sense.
That is why I spent weeks researching ZC before i decided to trial it.
Hopefully anyone else would do the same.

But I also hope they would be sure to check their sources were both relevant and reputable, rather than misinformed and misleading.
 
Brunneria said:
I think you have misunderstood.
This thread is about ZC which is a meat and water only diet.

Therefore, debating adding veg alternatives to replace ‘the beloved potato’ is not on topic, and not relevant to any discussion about ZC.

Dietary consequences should always be considered when switching ways of eating. That is common sense.
That is why I spent weeks researching ZC before i decided to trial it.
Hopefully anyone else would do the same.

But I also hope they would be sure to check their sources were both relevant and reputable, rather than misinformed and misleading.
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Just highlighting the difference between zero carb and low carb would have been fine.
Thank you very much.
 
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