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Sorry if a repeat... High carb dangerous obesity diet.

Interesting. The current advise to have 1/3 of your calories in the form of carbs has got a lot to answer for. I, for one have benefited a lot by not following the current guidelines, having thrown away 3 different prescribed drugs.

In the interests of fairness, I must mention that I know several people who would be unable to follow a low carb diet for health reasons, my wife included. I've seen her when she's tried to cut carbs and when she goes "weak and wobbly" as she calls it, she's close to collapsing. I also know several people who can eat like a horse and eat a lot more than me, but are considerably lighter than me. I think the major problem with the advice is that they've tried for the one size fits all and it doesn't work. We are all so very different.
 
DavidGrahamJones said:
Interesting. The current advise to have 1/3 of your calories in the form of carbs has got a lot to answer for. I, for one have benefited a lot by not following the current guidelines, having thrown away 3 different prescribed drugs.

In the interests of fairness, I must mention that I know several people who would be unable to follow a low carb diet for health reasons, my wife included. I've seen her when she's tried to cut carbs and when she goes "weak and wobbly" as she calls it, she's close to collapsing. I also know several people who can eat like a horse and eat a lot more than me, but are considerably lighter than me. I think the major problem with the advice is that they've tried for the one size fits all and it doesn't work. We are all so very different.
Click to expand...

We don’t need carbs since they are not essential

Your skinny friends are insulin sensitive I believe the term is lol
 
Can that even be repeated often enough? It's scary. "It is estimated that prescribed medication is the third most common cause of death after heart disease and cancer.". Big pharma = Big business.
Just for fun I checked the Danish recommendations, and they're just as bad. (I translated a few words, hence the weird Danglish)
  • 45-60 procent fra kulhydrat, of which max. 10 procent added sugar.
  • 25-40 procent fra fedt
  • 10-20 procent fra protein
 
DavidGrahamJones said:
Interesting. The current advise to have 1/3 of your calories in the form of carbs has got a lot to answer for. I, for one have benefited a lot by not following the current guidelines, having thrown away 3 different prescribed drugs.

In the interests of fairness, I must mention that I know several people who would be unable to follow a low carb diet for health reasons, my wife included. I've seen her when she's tried to cut carbs and when she goes "weak and wobbly" as she calls it, she's close to collapsing. I also know several people who can eat like a horse and eat a lot more than me, but are considerably lighter than me. I think the major problem with the advice is that they've tried for the one size fits all and it doesn't work. We are all so very different.
Click to expand...
I suffer with severe weakness but not sure if it's definitely low carb diet manifesting the problem.
I'm being treated for diabetes neuropathy but same meds for fibromyalgia.
I cannot walk far at all now. It's getting worse but iron deficiency hasn't helped. Asthma is virtually none existant. Just goes to show how anaemia was affecting me so much. Still only half way through anaemia treatment but breathlessness nearly gone. Swelling in stomach far better too but not totally gone. I've added 2st due to loss of metformin whilst treating ibs, an old infection and this anaemia. Looking forward to restarting metformin safely in the future.
Low carbing is an excellent tool to keep bgs under control and gives me the control back. It's very healthy for my mental health too. I prefer to be in control with my diabetes, than not.
Low carbing shouldnt be an issue for any diabetic, especially via the nhs but the horror stories are horrendous. Just today a poster claimed she was told off for having her hba1c too low.... misunderstood by practice nurse as her patient is low carbing so lower bgs as a result. Poster was this said patient. Ok a type1 patient but a consciousness diabetic never the less.
Low carbing shouldn't be snubbed or rebuffed by the nhs. It will save them millions.
We are trying to stop the nhs going bankrupt!!!
 
rab5 said:
We don’t need carbs since they are not essential
Click to expand...

They may not be "essential" and I certainly don't need the amount currently recommended. However, when I tried the Atkins diet which starts with zero carb, I experienced headaches, fatigue, weakness, difficulty concentrating, nausea, constipation, bad breath, basically the sort of things I was warned about before trying zero carb. We're better off with some carbs, my weight by date software calculates that I get 40 gms carb from all the veg I eat.
 
DavidGrahamJones said:
They may not be "essential" and I certainly don't need the amount currently recommended. However, when I tried the Atkins diet which starts with zero carb, I experienced headaches, fatigue, weakness, difficulty concentrating, nausea, constipation, bad breath, basically the sort of things I was warned about before trying zero carb. We're better off with some carbs, my weight by date software calculates that I get 40 gms carb from all the veg I eat.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a classic case of "keto flu" which after a few days goes away once your body gets used to running on fat rather than carbs.
 
bulkbiker said:
after a few days goes away
Click to expand...

I stuck at it for three weeks, just felt awful. I did a little googling and as you say it should only last a few days, however, I found one article which adds "although could be 1-2 weeks for some unlucky people with high metabolic resistance". In my case I was taking Rosiglitazone at the time, so many years ago. My weight increased to 163 kgs without eating more or exercising less (although the heavier I got, the more difficult exercise became) and in fact trying to eat less, hence a stab at Atkins. I'm guessing I would come under the "high metabolic resistance" category. The weight loss didn't start until I came off Rosiglitazone, thanks to my liver function deteriorating. Again, no change in diet. I blame Rosiglitazone for a lot, I feel it messed my metabolism up considerably and obviously messed the liver function up which is all connected. I blame my GP's ridiculous attitude to my weight gain for a lot, but that's another story.
Pleased to say that cutting carbs to 40gms per day has not had anything like the same effect as going for zero carbs. I'm more than happy with the way I feel, mentally and physically, just need to shed a few more stone (6 actually).
 
DavidGrahamJones said:
I stuck at it for three weeks, just felt awful. I did a little googling and as you say it should only last a few days, however, I found one article which adds "although could be 1-2 weeks for some unlucky people with high metabolic resistance". In my case I was taking Rosiglitazone at the time, so many years ago. My weight increased to 163 kgs without eating more or exercising less (although the heavier I got, the more difficult exercise became) and in fact trying to eat less, hence a stab at Atkins. I'm guessing I would come under the "high metabolic resistance" category. The weight loss didn't start until I came off Rosiglitazone, thanks to my liver function deteriorating. Again, no change in diet. I blame Rosiglitazone for a lot, I feel it messed my metabolism up considerably and obviously messed the liver function up which is all connected. I blame my GP's ridiculous attitude to my weight gain for a lot, but that's another story.
Pleased to say that cutting carbs to 40gms per day has not had anything like the same effect as going for zero carbs. I'm more than happy with the way I feel, mentally and physically, just need to shed a few more stone (6 actually).
Click to expand...

Is the weight still coming off now with 40g carbs?
 
DavidGrahamJones said:
I stuck at it for three weeks, just felt awful. I did a little googling and as you say it should only last a few days, however, I found one article which adds "although could be 1-2 weeks for some unlucky people with high metabolic resistance". In my case I was taking Rosiglitazone at the time, so many years ago. My weight increased to 163 kgs without eating more or exercising less (although the heavier I got, the more difficult exercise became) and in fact trying to eat less, hence a stab at Atkins. I'm guessing I would come under the "high metabolic resistance" category. The weight loss didn't start until I came off Rosiglitazone, thanks to my liver function deteriorating. Again, no change in diet. I blame Rosiglitazone for a lot, I feel it messed my metabolism up considerably and obviously messed the liver function up which is all connected. I blame my GP's ridiculous attitude to my weight gain for a lot, but that's another story.
Pleased to say that cutting carbs to 40gms per day has not had anything like the same effect as going for zero carbs. I'm more than happy with the way I feel, mentally and physically, just need to shed a few more stone (6 actually).
Click to expand...
I bet mine causing palpatations would have persisted until heart damaged.... I'm sooooo resistant.
I wonder how it can be counteracted? Lowing carbs in stages?
I guess I bit like drug addicts going cold turkey can cause heart attacks.
I'll have to experiment but any more betablockers and it could kill me once no longer having palpatations.

Maybe we need detox programmes. Carb addiction does exist.
Like you I'm resistant to most meds too so a very dangerous game. I wouldn't advise without medical support.
Bariatric team have seen it all. Mine are excellent.
 
rab5 said:
Is the weight still coming off now with 40g carbs?
Click to expand...

No, not exactly. I'm trying to do two things at once, lower my weight and stabalise my BG as it seems that without carbs my body is more than happy to convert protein. I'm attaching a graph which shows very clearly what happens after having 2 fried eggs for breakfast on a rare occasion where I was fed up and felt like a "treat". My regime since January 1st has been, by and large, as follows:
Monday - Friday No breakfast, Mediterranean vegetables for lunch (usually in a soup, maybe roasted with 100gms grated cheese), dinner - more veg, either Mediterranean veg roasted or steamed broccoli, cauliflower, leeks, brussel sprouts, runner beans.
Saturday breakfast - 2 poached eggs, 2 breakfast mushrooms (instead of toast), lunch - good old Mediterranean veg, dinner - as before plus meat of some sort.
Sunday breakfast - 2 slices Hovis 50% carb bread (toasted), 2 rashers of unadulterated back (greenback), lunch and dinner same as Saturday.
I eat about 250gms of mixed nuts a week, so almost 40gms a day (240 cals a day, quite a lot) and I have been known to have 0% yogurt with some blueberries, but not regularly.
I'm not suggesting this is a perfect, decent or good diet or one that anyone should follow, it seems to work in stablising my BG and initially helping me lose weight. I have been on a plateau for about 8 weeks but at least I'm 12 kgs lighter than on January 1st.

I've been in pursuit of losing weight for several years and I have never given up, and certainly have never eaten what the Harris Benedict formula said I should. That in itself could easily be part of the problem. It's been 5 years since I gave up bread/potato/rice/pasta/, 10 years since I gave up alcohol and nearly 30 years since I gave up processed foods. My GP can only say that my metabolism is broken and absolutely no idea of how to fix it. For me, losing weight is well beyond eating less and exercising more, it doesn't work for me. However, I have managed to establish several things that could all have something to do with my broken metabolism, thanks to several blood tests that the Nutritional Therapist I have been working with, has sent me for.

I am insulin resistant, I have high cortisone levels, I have high estrogen levels (always knew I was in touch with my feminine side LOL), I have NAFL, I have poor sleep (no blood required LOL) and if I understood more about the Kreb cycle I'd know more about ATP and ADP and how that goes towards muscle weakness. These are all things that effect whether one converts energy to fat of uses it in the muscles. Not straight forward or something I'll pretend to be an expert on. I'm just trying bit by bit to get the very bottom and I feel that I'm getting very close. I'll get there one day.

The attached PDF shows the result of 2 fried eggs and two microwaved breakfast mushrooms (saucer sized).
 

Attachments

Last edited:
briped said:
Can that even be repeated often enough? It's scary. "It is estimated that prescribed medication is the third most common cause of death after heart disease and cancer.". Big pharma = Big business.
Just for fun I checked the Danish recommendations, and they're just as bad. (I translated a few words, hence the weird Danglish)
  • 45-60 procent fra kulhydrat, of which max. 10 procent added sugar.
  • 25-40 procent fra fedt
  • 10-20 procent fra protein
Click to expand...

From watching presentations by cardiologists suggested here, there's a strong connection. So too many carbs leading to metabolic syndrome and increased risk of heart disease and cancers. And then risks from prescribing medications like the dreaded statins rather than changing diet advice.

That dietary guidelines are similar across Europe is because of this:-

http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/press/news/nda100326

The Panel conclusions are summarised below:

  • The intake of total carbohydrates - including carbohydrates from starchy foods such as potatoes and pasta, and from simple carbohydrates such as sugars - should range from 45 to 60% of the total energy intake for both adults and children.
Click to expand...
So no suprise the carb recommendations are the same as the Danes or the UK's 'Eatwell' guidelines. As far as I know there's no penalty for disobeying the EU on this matter, but needs our medical community and consumers to lobby government to change those guidelines. Which of course would be challenging because then we'd be challenging the junk food industry, who spend millions to lobby that their products are just fine.
 
DavidGrahamJones said:
No, not exactly. I'm trying to do two things at once, lower my weight and stabalise my BG as it seems that without carbs my body is more than happy to convert protein. I'm attaching a graph which shows very clearly what happens after having 2 fried eggs for breakfast on a rare occasion where I was fed up and felt like a "treat". My regime since January 1st has been, by and large, as follows:
Monday - Friday No breakfast, Mediterranean vegetables for lunch (usually in a soup, maybe roasted with 100gms grated cheese), dinner - more veg, either Mediterranean veg roasted or steamed broccoli, cauliflower, leeks, brussel sprouts, runner beans.
Saturday breakfast - 2 poached eggs, 2 breakfast mushrooms (instead of toast), lunch - good old Mediterranean veg, dinner - as before plus meat of some sort.
Sunday breakfast - 2 slices Hovis 50% carb bread (toasted), 2 rashers of unadulterated back (greenback), lunch and dinner same as Saturday.
I eat about 250gms of mixed nuts a week, so almost 40gms a day (240 cals a day, quite a lot) and I have been known to have 0% yogurt with some blueberries, but not regularly.
I'm not suggesting this is a perfect, decent or good diet or one that anyone should follow, it seems to work in stablising my BG and initially helping me lose weight. I have been on a plateau for about 8 weeks but at least I'm 12 kgs lighter than on January 1st.

I've been in pursuit of losing weight for several years and I have never given up, and certainly have never eaten what the Harris Benedict formula said I should. That in itself could easily be part of the problem. It's been 5 years since I gave up bread/potato/rice/pasta/, 10 years since I gave up alcohol and nearly 30 years since I gave up processed foods. My GP can only say that my metabolism is broken and absolutely no idea of how to fix it. For me, losing weight is well beyond eating less and exercising more, it doesn't work for me. However, I have managed to establish several things that could all have something to do with my broken metabolism, thanks to several blood tests that the Nutritional Therapist I have been working with, has sent me for.

I am insulin resistant, I have high cortisone levels, I have high estrogen levels (always knew I was in touch with my feminine side LOL), I have NAFL, I have poor sleep (no blood required LOL) and if I understood more about the Kreb cycle I'd know more about ATP and ADP and how that goes towards muscle weakness. These are all things that effect whether one converts energy to fat of uses it in the muscles. Not straight forward or something I'll pretend to be an expert on. I'm just trying bit by bit to get the very bottom and I feel that I'm getting very close. I'll get there one day.

The attached PDF shows the result of 2 fried eggs and two microwaved breakfast mushrooms (saucer sized).
Click to expand...
I bet your kidney health is effected by estrogen. Excellent kidney health, I would have thought?
So i have tried veg and fish/meat only meals and no snacks. Low fat and low carb got my weight off. Not enough and loss of metformin benefitted 2st hasn't pleased me... But what can I do when I have stomach problem which cannot tolerate metformin, at mo.
I'm confident you will lose weight. Like you say getting the right formula.
 
first14808 said:
Which of course would be challenging because then we'd be challenging the junk food industry, who spend millions to lobby that their products are just fine.
Click to expand...

The junk food industry and the pharmaceutical industry. There's money to be made on us before and after diagnosis. I used to be a paying memeber of the Danish Diabetes Association, but I felt it was all about doom and gloom, and whenever I received their monthly mag I'd feel rather low. The final straw was when I read an article in the mag about how I was likely to get all sorts of diseases, even if I'd managed to go into remission and was no longer on medication. That it wouldn't make a difference. That may be true, and it may not, but I believe in positive thinking, and they didn't help me at all, so I called them and asked them to stop sending me their mags, and later I dropped my memebership. No annoying adds for medications and diabetic equipment featuring slim, active and ecstatically happy looking, silver grey haired people in their 60es and 70es - but I digress :)
 
ickihun said:
I bet your kidney health is effected by estrogen. Excellent kidney health, I would have thought?
Click to expand...

My annual blood test says they're fine, and at times I can pee for Britain, so hopefully they're working OK. Liver function is still up and down (as of last blood test). On a few occasions it has been what the GP calls normal and I'm thinking that codeine consumption has an effect. I'm not taking now and so long as I don't play golf, walk any distance, lift anything heavy, swim etc I don't get back ache (muscular spasms, even a sneeze can set it off).
 
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