Type 2 Carbs And The Doctor/dn

[ickihun]

It’s not just excess weight that causes type 2. I’ve never been overweight, along with about 10% of people diagnosed with type 2.

Thats right but some are finding fatty liver or fat around their organs which are preventing them from working as normal. Some are finding fat on the inside but not on the outside.
Fat cells if brown ones cause obesity. Not healthy fat cells.

 

[ickihun]

Then learn not to bully, which many of you do. My criticism was not about your chosen way but the disrespect. You might not be one and I can't be bothered to look back and check, but there were plenty. I am glad my patients respected me better and proud we achieved our goals.

Sent from my SGP611 using Diabetes Forum mobile app

We all appreciate our nurses but even you know a fellow nurse which gets it wrong. All industries do.
We are soooo reliant on the dn's care being correct and so when they get it wrong it has dangerous effects, unlike other industries like customer care on transport for example. They just end up on the wrong train or bus. Health professionals are soooo important to us. Without them we may die but with the wrong one we get injuried.

 

[ickihun]

DCUK, Yes of course, I do understand and I was only referring to those who have 'good results' being harassed by Doctors. I am asked every single time what I have been eating and I really feel like saying mind your own business when they can see my levels are fine.

Yes but I found that is so they can pass your knowledge on. I had 2 dieticians whilst losing weight. They were intrigued.

 

[Goonergal]

Then learn not to bully, which many of you do. My criticism was not about your chosen way but the disrespect. You might not be one and I can't be bothered to look back and check, but there were plenty. I am glad my patients respected me better and proud we achieved our goals

@Sani Thomas I agree with you on the disrespect and the bullying it seems to be a regular thing on this forum. I am not trying to start anything here but it's the truth, if one doesn't agree with the majority, one is our castered. Simple as that. I'm sorry you have been treated like that. Wishing you well as we all have different ways of helping ourselves and so far i don't believe there are any experts in here, just people who are learning. Hopefully by listening to others as well.

I don’t see any bullying on this thread - and have not noticed it elsewhere on the forum. If I did, I would report the posts. That is an option open to everyone and the moderators will respond appropriately.

There are a lot of strong opinions expressed but that is quite different to what you are talking about. In my experience those with the most knowledge are among the best listeners and open minded - and there are plenty of them on this thread.

Blindly following the advice of anyone - whether a health care professional or not - is never a good idea. It’s each individual’s responsibility to research and do what is right for them.

 

[britishpub]

In my opinion, those of us who consider LC/Keto as the best way to combat T2D do ourselves no favours by being quite so defensive or confrontational when a different opinion is put forward.

 

[Phoenix55]

I have rarely seen any disrespect on this forum and the moderators would be quick to pick up on any bullying. At times debate is bit vigorous, but there ae always some people who hold strong views. What I have seen are a lot of people who have met with closed minds, disrespect and are venting their frustration online. At the end of my interview with my DN I felt so belittled that I told her that I was not lying to her, there would be no point. It was the last time I wasted my time and hers with an appointment. I saw a doctor afterwards and was reprimanded for not starting metformin, 'you will regret not taking one little pill when you are going blind' and a huff when I explained my reason for not complying. I saw a second doctor and queried why my HbA1c was so different from my figures from my meter. I was told that they tested venal not peripheral blood, as if I had two separate circulation systems to give the different figures not that the two tests used different units, and then was told I should reduce testing to once a week. I had taken charts and figures with me for an adult conversation about my treatment, which were never even glanced at but I was told that I had done well to reduce my figures to pre-diabetic levels and it was OK not to start metformin. I live in a village and this is the only surgery. If I thought it would do any good I would get involved with a patient group but I don't think I would be the best use of my time. I did not waste my time taking time off work to go on a Desmond course, my eyes are checked regularly by a good optician who photographs the retina without dilating the pupil so I can drive safely afterwards. My feet are in better condition now than they were before I was diagnosed and I am checking them daily for any damage or change in sensation. I am doing my best to educate myself on diet and to find a way that works for me with minimal help from anyone except those on this site and the links they provide. I keep my diet varied and lowish carb without worrying about precise figures, and by eating plenty of veg. not going to an extreme.

My contacts with the NHS have been minimal through my adult life, but more recently I have not been impressed with the attitude that older people meet with; patronising at best, ignored or treated like recalcitrant children. Professionals who can not find a wrist pulse, who do not check the alignment of a broken bone in the hand of a musician, repeat prescriptions for years with no check for any contraindications, I could go on. As I stated in my earlier post I have family who have worked for the NHS and they have been shocked and upset at the attitudes of staff. I am sure that there are intelligent, caring staff who do not think they are in a real life version of 'Casualty' but in some parts of the country they are hard to find unless one needs to see a consultant. I treat anyone with respect until they give me reason not to do so, I do not make a fuss and demand attention, I understand that people are busy, work extended shifts, have excessive amounts of paperwork. It is the same in all professions. My experience is over a number of years in different parts of the country. I am sorry if you feel that I am 'knocking' your profession, I am merely reporting what I have found, don't shoot the messenger. Look around you and see how your colleagues behave, how it is perceived from a patient's perspective and remember we hear and see more than you may realise.

 

[zand]

Hi Zand,
I can't imagine that your doctor has accused you if lying. More likely they may have thought that in some aspect you missed something from the diet. Besides, I think that you should have asked to consult a dietician.
As for the doctor, if you are dissatisfied, you have the right to change them. One doctor does not represent the entire body of doctors.
Have you heard of the Patients Rights?

You are right, look wherever possible. I do. But please, follow the professionals. There are masses of unprofessional advise. Some may work with some people, some not. We are all different. Even our types are different.

Has it ever crossed your mind that the lack of improvement is simply due to the progress of the condition and that you may have to move ahead with treatment.

You give the impression that diabetes is a competition. It is not. It is strictly individual and comparisons sometimes can backfire. It is more important to look at your needs and how you want to live. Then you can discuss it with your hcp. Then you agree your goals, using their knowledge and plan how to achieve them.

I'm not saying that you should do only what the NHS says. Doctors are available privately too. What I am saying is that only professionals can advise you. Otherwise you could become a client of Gwineth Paltrow or someone like her. Or else it is waste of the valuable time of doctors already pressed hard to meet the needs of the population.

The comment about the epilepsy was not in any connection with diabetes but a comment on someone else posting.

So now you are accusing me of lying too! Yes my doctor said 'It works when people stick to it' I said I did stick to it and weighed my food to the gram and the diet made me put on 8 pounds in 2 weeks. (I had previously been gaining 7 pounds in a year)The look on her face said it all. A very arrogant knowing self righteous look with a slight smirk. Not professional and certainly not compassionate. (This is the same GP who told me that I should have left my cold, still baby in his cot because it's dangerous to wake babes when they are asleep...but that's another story.) I did ask to consult a dietitian and 2 doctors refused to refer me.

You are still telling me to follow the professionals? Why don't the professionals listen? The doctor patient relationship should be a two way thing. Dr Unwin listened to a patient just like me and came onto this forum to see what the patient was seeing here. He has now saved the NHS thousands by listening to his patients and helping them to low carb!

Here we go again! The progress of the condition! My condition is not progressing anymore since I started following LCHF. In fact my GP refuses to give me Metformin now because my HbA1cs are below 48. Has it ever crossed your mind that diabetes may not actually be progressive? I know the NHS says it is, but what if that's wrong?

Oh my Doc and I agree my goals fine. I need to lose weight, several stones. We disagree on the method though. I tried the low fat low cal method for 25 years and ended up morbidly obese and very hungry. 5 or so years of LCHF has brought me just this morning from the seriously obese level to merely obese. I struggled in the seriously obese BMI range for about 3 years, and 50 days ago I started keto and am now finally obese. I am overjoyed. I am 14 stones 8 pounds. I was once nearly 19 stones. At that point my GP said he couldn't help me until I had put on another stone! I assume he was thinking of bariatric surgery, shame he didn't know about LCHF like DR Unwin. What's even more of a shame is that he isn't interested in how I am now losing weight after all these years. If like Dr Unwin he asked me what I was doing then he could help more patients to lose weight too. But no, the outdated NHS guidelines just have to be right don't they?

I am not a client of anyone for my weight loss, I just try what I have learnt on here. If it works for me I stick with it, if it doesn't I stop doing it and try something else. Like @Brunneria though I have used an osteopath and later a chiropractor when I hurt my back. I went to my GP first and he told me it was just aging and that if digging a garden hurt me then I shouldn't do it anymore. I didn't want to stop doing what I enjoyed doing at the age of 32 so I ignored his advice and went to a chiropractor. I am still digging my garden now I am 60 and don't have any back pain. The original problem in my back had been caused by whiplash a couple of years earlier. I was referred for NHS physio which took 6 months to get me to the top of the list to get treatment, it initially helped the neck but no-one in the NHS told me that a neck injury could end up causing pain in the lower back. I didn't find out that whiplash could cause thyroid damage and therefore weight gain until over 20 years later when I consulted a nutritionist to try to help me lose weight (after my GPs had refused to send me to a dietitian)

I once had a good doctor who sadly has left the practice now. I used to save his valuable time and consult Dr Google first. He encouraged me to do this as it saved consultation time. Now I just stay away from my surgery unless I can't find the answer elsewhere, so I am saving even more consultation time.

I realise the comment about epilepsy wasn't about diabetes. I mentioned it because LCHF can help in some epilepsy cases too, and a whole range of other conditions, not just diabetes.

 

[Sani Thomas]

So now you are accusing me of lying too! Yes my doctor said 'It works when people stick to it' I said I did stick to it and weighed my food to the gram and the diet made me put on 8 pounds in 2 weeks. (I had previously been gaining 7 pounds in a year)The look on her face said it all. A very arrogant knowing self righteous look with a slight smirk. Not professional and certainly not compassionate. (This is the same GP who told me that I should have left my cold, still baby in his cot because it's dangerous to wake babes when they are asleep...but that's another story.) I did ask to consult a dietitian and 2 doctors refused to refer me.

You are still telling me to follow the professionals? Why don't the professionals listen? The doctor patient relationship should be a two way thing. Dr Unwin listened to a patient just like me and came onto this forum to see what the patient was seeing here. He has now saved the NHS thousands by listening to his patients and helping them to low carb!

Here we go again! The progress of the condition! My condition is not progressing anymore since I started following LCHF. In fact my GP refuses to give me Metformin now because my HbA1cs are below 48. Has it ever crossed your mind that diabetes may not actually be progressive? I know the NHS says it is, but what if that's wrong?

Oh my Doc and I agree my goals fine. I need to lose weight, several stones. We disagree on the method though. I tried the low fat low cal method for 25 years and ended up morbidly obese and very hungry. 5 or so years of LCHF has brought me just this morning from the seriously obese level to merely obese. I struggled in the seriously obese BMI range for about 3 years, and 50 days ago I started keto and am now finally obese. I am overjoyed. I am 14 stones 8 pounds. I was once nearly 19 stones. At that point my GP said he couldn't help me until I had put on another stone! I assume he was thinking of bariatric surgery, shame he didn't know about LCHF like DR Unwin. What's even more of a shame is that he isn't interested in how I am now losing weight after all these years. If like Dr Unwin he asked me what I was doing then he could help more patients to lose weight too. But no, the outdated NHS guidelines just have to be right don't they?

I am not a client of anyone for my weight loss, I just try what I have learnt on here. If it works for me I stick with it, if it doesn't I stop doing it and try something else. Like @Brunneria though I have used an osteopath and later a chiropractor when I hurt my back. I went to my GP first and he told me it was just aging and that if digging a garden hurt me then I shouldn't do it anymore. I didn't want to stop doing what I enjoyed doing at the age of 32 so I ignored his advice and went to a chiropractor. I am still digging my garden now I am 60 and don't have any back pain. The original problem in my back had been caused by whiplash a couple of years earlier. I was referred for NHS physio which took 6 months to get me to the top of the list to get treatment, it initially helped the neck but no-one in the NHS told me that a neck injury could end up causing pain in the lower back. I didn't find out that whiplash could cause thyroid damage and therefore weight gain until over 20 years later when I consulted a nutritionist to try to help me lose weight (after my GPs had refused to send me to a dietitian)

I once had a good doctor who sadly has left the practice now. I used to save his valuable time and consult Dr Google first. He encouraged me to do this as it saved consultation time. Now I just stay away from my surgery unless I can't find the answer elsewhere, so I am saving even more consultation time.

I realise the comment about epilepsy wasn't about diabetes. I mentioned it because LCHF can help in some epilepsy cases too, and a whole range of other conditions, not just diabetes.

To be honest, because of your attitude "So now you are accusing me of lying too!" I couldn't care less about you!
Good luck

 

[zand]

In my opinion, those of us who consider LC/Keto as the best way to combat T2D do ourselves no favours by being quite so defensive or confrontational when a different opinion is put forward.

Hey, someone who works in the NHS has called me a liar on this thread! I will defend myself against that sort of attack always. I do accept that some other methods work for other people but to say 'I can't imagine that your doctor has accused you if lying. More likely they may have thought that in some aspect you missed something from the diet. ' when I made it clear that I had told my GP that I had followed the diet to the letter' is arrogant and rude. Or perhaps I am being accused of being stupid by not being able to read the diet properly? I taught myself to read before I went to school so I can assure the poster in question that isn't the problem. When I got to school I was working out words like glorious, gracious and mayor and couldn't understand why the teacher was telling us to sound out words like C-A-T. It said 'cat' for goodness sake why complicate things? (In case anyone is in any doubt that last thought was from almost 5 year old zand, not adult zand, I am not accusing teachers of being inept.)

 

[zand]

To be honest, because of your attitude "So now you are accusing me of lying too!" I couldn't care less about you!
Good luck

Why would I want you to care about me? I have found my answers, thank you, I hope you find yours some day too.

 

[Sani Thomas]

Why would I want you to care about me? I have found my answers, thank you, I hope you find yours some day too.

I have found them but pity newcomers who won't know their options.

 

[Flora123]

Don't worry about that.. debate is great.
I hope you have found something useful and thought provoking in the discussions.
Please feel free to have a read around and ask anymore questions that you might have.

I know. Just wondering if it’s worth getting some popcorn!! Too carby for me though

 

[Moggely]

Yes but I found that is so they can pass your knowledge on. I had 2 dieticians whilst losing weight. They were intrigued.

I don’t see any bullying on this thread - and have not noticed it elsewhere on the forum. If I did, I would report the posts. That is an option open to everyone and the moderators will respond appropriately.

There are a lot of strong opinions expressed but that is quite different to what you are talking about. In my experience those with the most knowledge are among the best listeners and open minded - and there are plenty of them on this thread.

Blindly following the advice of anyone - whether a health care professional or not - is never a good idea. It’s each individual’s responsibility to research and do what is right for them.

@Goonergal . I respect your opinion but i agree with what @Sani Thomas said. There is indeed bulling on this forum and going on right now on this thread against one person.ONE. perhaps you didn't want to notice it. There is a rule for regulars and another for those of us that have a difference of opinions. This is the second time you have pulled me up for observing comments, that is your right, but rights belong to us all not just to the few. Have a good day/night wherever you are. Time for an afternoon walk.

 

[zand]

@Goonergal . I respect your opinion but i agree with what @Sani Thomas said. There is indeed bulling on this forum and going on right now on this thread against one person.ONE. perhaps you didn't want to notice it. There is a rule for regulars and another for those of us that have a difference of opinions. This is the second time you have pulled me up for observing comments, that is your right, but rights belong to us all not just to the few. Have a good day/night wherever you are. Time for an afternoon walk.

My own comments are against the outdated NHS guidelines which are harming people. I don't know how anyone can stick up for those guidelines when the statistics speak for themselves. I was quite hurt by the one person you speak of who told me 'I can't imagine your doctor accused you of lying'. Then the back lash about my attitude. My attitude re the NHS comes from years of not being listened to, going right back to things that should have been noticed by my GP when I was a baby. The NHS wasn't cash strapped back then.

 

[Brunneria]

@Sani Thomas and @Moggely

Please think carefully before you make accusations of bullying.
Diabetes.co.uk takes accusations of bullying very seriously, and such accusations will always be investigated.

If any member considers that a post contains bullying content, then they should hit the Report button immediately, or write to the [email protected] email address explaining why they think the post is bullying. They should include a link to the post in question. The alleged bullying will then be investigated by the moderation team.

This should be done instead of making unspecified and accusatory posts on the open forum.

Everyone should be aware that everyone communicates in different ways and that disagreement does not necessarily constitute bullying. Nor does conviction and a willingness to stand up for oneself. Equally, feeling that your ideas are a minority view does not mean that you are being bullied, it just means that you are in a minority.

The forum rules (please acquaint yourselves with them, link in my signature) clearly set out acceptable behaviour on the forum, and bullying is not permitted.

So, if you wish to make an accusation of bullying, please do so using an email or the Report button.
In the meantime, all further accusations of alleged bullying will be deleted, since they won't have been investigated and will cause more argument and accusation.

 

[Phoenix55]

'

I couldn't care less about you!
Good luck

This is the attitude that I have found all too often in the 'caring profession'. If someone said or behaved in that manner to a member of your family would you be impressed and respect them for their professionalism? Unfortunately all too often I have found it is combined with a total lack of interest in acquiring further knowledge. They have passed their exams so now they can 'get on with the job'. We have all sat in on 'courses' that are paying lip service to personal or professional development. I am not saying that anyone on here fits that category but perhaps it would have been a more productive line of enquiry to ask why so many of us are finding that our HCP do not listen, are not interested in our problems. Find that the advice we are given is not practical or simply does not work. We want them to be more open to different ideas not just follow the line that they have been told. It was part of my job as a teacher to teach children to think, to assess the information that they were given, and also part of my job as a professional to explain something when questioned. We each have found our own way, some LC, some LCHF, some Keto, some intermittent fasting etc. The message to me is that we are all different and have to find the way that works for us. The only thing that I would advise anyone with a diagnosis of T2 or pre diabetes is to get hold of a bg meter and to use it to find the way that is best for them. If someone chooses to continue with the 'eatwell plate' that is their choice. Someone chooses to want whatever they like to eat then take insulin to bring down their sugars, again that is their choice. Some of us want to remain drug free for as long as possible and that choice should also be respected. Whatever choice we make all are welcome on this site.

 

[KK123]

Yes but I found that is so they can pass your knowledge on. I had 2 dieticians whilst losing weight. They were intrigued.

Hi ickihun, I do understand why they might ask in certain circumstances but I am a type 1 who is normal weight, what difference does it make to them? Then they start examining what I do eat by saying 'make sure you don't eat too much red meat, not too much cheese, maybe try cottage cheese'! Bizarre. Ah well, my rant is over. x

 

[ickihun]

Hi ickihun, I do understand why they might ask in certain circumstances but I am a type 1 who is normal weight, what difference does it make to them? Then they start examining what I do eat by saying 'make sure you don't eat too much red meat, not too much cheese, maybe try cottage cheese'! Bizarre. Ah well, my rant is over. x

Your right. Strange attention unless a person is underweight, overweight or starting with insulin resistance.
Mind you they should have your blood results.
I had to tell one dietician years ago about cruciferous veg causing thyroid disturbances. She looked in horror as she'd never heard of food influencing thyroid except iodine in seafood or kelp.
I knew more than her and I still got "reduce portion sizes" as an after thought.
I'd like to think new dieticians know alot more than that dinosaur.
Its sad how they vary in knowledge.

 

[ickihun]

My own comments are against the outdated NHS guidelines which are harming people. I don't know how anyone can stick up for those guidelines when the statistics speak for themselves. I was quite hurt by the one person you speak of who told me 'I can't imagine your doctor accused you of lying'. Then the back lash about my attitude. My attitude re the NHS comes from years of not being listened to, going right back to things that should have been noticed by my GP when I was a baby. The NHS wasn't cash strapped back then.

I think a lack of intelligence and laziness is what they are guilty of.
My gps looked after mainly uneducated blue collar workers. My mum was told my thrust was down to hygiene even though I was soaking in bath everynight to ease stinging and scratching with anticeptic cream administered in ignorance. My GP's then didn't even diagnose thrush in me.
No diabetes check, if there was one in 1970s?
They failed so any people and would still be if they weren't aware of negligence laws.
They smoked whilst doing open surgery. They flaunted the rules, when it suited them.
Thank God we have accountability now.

 

[tayelola]

I believe in the saying that you are your best doctor. If I go to the physician that am feeling headache I don't know if there is any investigation to confirm whether or not it's true. You know yourself more than anybody else be it a physician or otherwise.