Type 2 Carbs And The Doctor/dn

[zand]

If you are not going to follow the advice of your doctor, or even to discuss it with them, why are going there?

What happens when you follow the advice of your doctor and find that it doesn't work? I followed diets given to me by my GP and they didn't work. Of course then I was blamed for not following them properly when I did follow them to the letter. That really hurts. When this happens you have no choice but to look elsewhere for something that does work. What is the point of going back to someone who thinks you are lying? I go to my GP for the blood tests which I am entitled to have. I am entitled to have good advice too, but often that is lacking, so I look elsewhere. I only ever look elsewhere when I have been let down by my HCPs. Are you seriously saying that I should only do what the NHS says I should do? I have been told (by a GP) that out of 303 diabetic patients at my practice my HBA1c is the best. Should I disregard what I have found out from 'health gurus' and follow the crowd and let my diabetes get gradually worse? I have tried to discuss the reason my HbA1c is better than the rest with my GPs but they don't want to know.

Interesting you mention epilepsy. I understand that a low carb diet for about 2 years can help improve the condition.

 

[Concordjan]

Its hearsay.
Do you know someone who has eaten large amount of carbs daily throughout their life..... Without burning it off? For example moving, walking, dancing or housework?
Most people I know who have mobility problems watch their diet too.

Calories not burned off adds fat and muscle.
Fat not burned off can in a high carby diet add weight.
Excess body weight causes type 2. Excess body weight for your frame and genes.
Always be ideal body weight with no internal fat then diabetes SHOULD stay away. Fat around organs, especially pancreas or fatty liver causes type2.

It’s not just excess weight that causes type 2. I’ve never been overweight, along with about 10% of people diagnosed with type 2.

 

[Daibell]

It’s not just excess weight that causes type 2. I’ve never been overweight, along with about 10% of people diagnosed with type 2.

Hi. It's possible that you are actually a late onset T1? It can be difficult to diagnose the difference other than measuring your natural insulin level such as the c-peptide test. At the end of the day, as long as you receive the right treatment which I didn't for a while then the actual diagnosis doesn't matter too much but it does mess up the statistics and research data

 

[Daibell]

You don't seem to understand what angers me. I agree there are good and bad doctors. More good than bad. And yes, this is called informed consent for treatment. But Im not talking about that.
I'm talking about constantly disparaging the Med.professionals, disregarding their advice and insisting patients know better. The forceful promotion of things that the professionals know better. And believe me, they know.
I am so disappointed that I'm thinking about leaving this forum. I'm also worried that new diabetics get wrong or conflicting advice. Your attitude is the right attitude but most others on the thread I commented on were not. If you are not going to follow the advice of your doctor, or even to discuss it with them, why are going there?
Anyway, right now I have decided that I'm going with my support team. Being a nurse, I know the responsibility they shoulder, the constant studying, the research, etc. I'm not going to go with some half-assed ideas of various gurus. And I'll continue to be the other side and tell people my opinion, so they know they have options and discuss them with the correct people - The medical team.
Apropos, I know about the epileptic condition. Any epilepsy specialist knows it too.
Bye

Sent from my SGP611 using Diabetes Forum mobile app

I've just re-read the Diabetes booklet given to me by an earlier DN in 2005 and produced by East & North Herts NHS Trust. It recommends having Starchy carbs with every meal and keeping fats down (as well as sugar and salt). Many of us know from experience including me that that would have sent BS thru the roof as I was on tablets at the time and struggling. Are you suggesting I should have actually followed that foolish advice? My current and previous DNs are brilliant and fortunately have not tried to give me any diet advice as they would have been pressured to follow NHS/PHE guidance.

 

[Sani Thomas]

What happens when you follow the advice of your doctor and find that it doesn't work? I followed diets given to me by my GP and they didn't work. Of course then I was blamed for not following them properly when I did follow them to the letter. That really hurts. When this happens you have no choice but to look elsewhere for something that does work. What is the point of going back to someone who thinks you are lying? I go to my GP for the blood tests which I am entitled to have. I am entitled to have good advice too, but often that is lacking, so I look elsewhere. I only ever look elsewhere when I have been let down by my HCPs. Are you seriously saying that I should only do what the NHS says I should do? I have been told (by a GP) that out of 303 diabetic patients at my practice my HBA1c is the best. Should I disregard what I have found out from 'health gurus' and follow the crowd and let my diabetes get gradually worse? I have tried to discuss the reason my HbA1c is better than the rest with my GPs but they don't want to know.

Interesting you mention epilepsy. I understand that a low carb diet for about 2 years can help improve the condition.

Hi Zand,
I can't imagine that your doctor has accused you if lying. More likely they may have thought that in some aspect you missed something from the diet. Besides, I think that you should have asked to consult a dietician.
As for the doctor, if you are dissatisfied, you have the right to change them. One doctor does not represent the entire body of doctors.
Have you heard of the Patients Rights?

You are right, look wherever possible. I do. But please, follow the professionals. There are masses of unprofessional advise. Some may work with some people, some not. We are all different. Even our types are different.

Has it ever crossed your mind that the lack of improvement is simply due to the progress of the condition and that you may have to move ahead with treatment.

You give the impression that diabetes is a competition. It is not. It is strictly individual and comparisons sometimes can backfire. It is more important to look at your needs and how you want to live. Then you can discuss it with your hcp. Then you agree your goals, using their knowledge and plan how to achieve them.

I'm not saying that you should do only what the NHS says. Doctors are available privately too. What I am saying is that only professionals can advise you. Otherwise you could become a client of Gwineth Paltrow or someone like her. Or else it is waste of the valuable time of doctors already pressed hard to meet the needs of the population.

The comment about the epilepsy was not in any connection with diabetes but a comment on someone else posting.

 

[Sani Thomas]

I've just re-read the Diabetes booklet given to me by an earlier DN in 2005 and produced by East & North Herts NHS Trust. It recommends having Starchy carbs with every meal and keeping fats down (as well as sugar and salt). Many of us know from experience including me that that would have sent BS thru the roof as I was on tablets at the time and struggling. Are you suggesting I should have actually followed that foolish advice? My current and previous DNs are brilliant and fortunately have not tried to give me any diet advice as they would have been pressured to follow NHS/PHE guidance.

2005 ? That's 13 years ago. So many things have changed since. When I was studying, no reference older than 5 years was acceptable. That should mean something.

 

[kokhongw]

What is truly upsetting is that millions continues to be sent down the fools errand of eat less and move more, (calories is what matters, whole grains are god sent, fats will kill you) only to struggle with marginal improvements in their glucose control and a lifetime dependency on medication and inevitable complications.

At the same time they remain completely dismissive of the lifelong benefits of being medication free, that simple carbs reduction brings.

Fortunately some doctors do know better
Dietary carbohydrate restriction as the first approach in diabetes management: Critical review and evidence base
Author links open overlay panelRichard D.FeinmanPh.D.aWendy K.PogozelskiPh.D.bArneAstrupM.D.cRichard K.BernsteinM.D.dEugene J.FineM.S., M.D.eEric C.WestmanM.D., M.H.S.fAnthonyAccursoM.D.gLyndaFrassettoM.D.hBarbara A.GowerPh.D.iSamy I.McFarlaneM.D.jJörgen VestiNielsenM.D.kThureKrarupM.D.lLauraSaslowPh.D.mKarl S.RothM.D.nMary C.VernonM.D.oJeff S.VolekR.D., Ph.D.pGilbert B.WilshireM.D.qAnnikaDahlqvistM.D.r…NicolaiWormPh.D.z
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0899900714003323

And this forum provides the much needed perspective that the prevailing dietary advice and guidelines are desperately wrong.

 

[bulkbiker]

follow the professionals

I do.. i follow a guy called Dr Jason Fung. He's next to me in my avatar. He has helped thousands of people with Type 2 diabetes to reverse their conditions with his fasting and low carb advice. The fact that my HCP's in the UK have never heard of him makes me sad. The fact that the majority of Type 2's in the UK have probably never heard of him either makes me sadder.

 

[Sani Thomas]

I do.. i follow a guy called Dr Jason Fung. He's next to me in my avatar. He has helped thousands of people with Type 2 diabetes to reverse their conditions with his fasting and low carb advice. The fact that my HCP's in the UK have never heard of him makes me sad. The fact that the majority of Type 2's in the UK have probably never heard of him either makes me sadder.

Good luck.

 

[bulkbiker]

Good luck.

See my results? I'm not sure I need your good luck wishes thanks...
I wish you would be more open minded it may help you as well.
Dr Fung along with Virta health have managed to reduce or completely remove insulin therapy for a lot of their Type 2 patients. Fasting and a ketogenic diet.

 

[Sani Thomas]

See my results? I'm not sure I need your good luck wishes thanks...
I wish you would be more open minded it may help you as well.
Dr Fung along with Virta health have managed to reduce or completely remove insulin therapy for a lot of their Type 2 patients. Fasting and a ketogenic diet.

I am open minded. I am also objective. You can do whatever you want but it is absolutely unacceptable to badmouthing the professional body if you do not agree with them. And that is what is happening here.
One note, I'm sure I enjoy life better despite using insulin. I can eat what I want, when I want and not deprive myself. You on the other hand live on some restrictive diet. The end result is the same (in this case). But there is no information on the long term effects of your approach. So wishing you best of luck for the unknown future.

This is my last comment to you as I don't see sense in spending time with people who cannot respect the professional body.

Sent from my SGP611 using Diabetes Forum mobile app

 

[bulkbiker]

I don't see sense in spending time with people who cannot respect the professional body.

Respect has to be earned...

 

[Flora123]

Ever wish you’d never asked a question! Thanks for all your replies.

 

[xfieldok]

I am open minded. I am also objective. You can do whatever you want but it is absolutely unacceptable to badmouthing the professional body if you do not agree with them. And that is what is happening here.
One note, I'm sure I enjoy life better despite using insulin. I can eat what I want, when I want and not deprive myself. You on the other hand live on some restrictive diet. The end result is the same (in this case). But there is no information on the long term effects of your approach. So wishing you best of luck for the unknown future.

This is my last comment to you as I don't see sense in spending time with people who cannot respect the professional body.

Sent from my SGP611 using Diabetes Forum mobile app

My diet is different but certainly not restricted. I have a fabulous diabetic nurse but I am one of the lucky ones.

 

[Mike d]

@Sani Thomas ... intransigent attitude from you to be blunt. Not a good look. It's NOT for you to elevate your opinion over those of others, many of whom here work from their experience alongside the help of professionals. No-one is beyond criticism or question.

There are a lot of people here that are experts, and for good reason

 

[bulkbiker]

Ever wish you’d never asked a question! Thanks for all your replies.

Don't worry about that.. debate is great.
I hope you have found something useful and thought provoking in the discussions.
Please feel free to have a read around and ask anymore questions that you might have.

 

[Sani Thomas]

@Sani Thomas ... intransigent attitude from you to be blunt. Not a good look. It's NOT for you to elevate your opinion over those of others, many of whom here work from their experience alongside the help of professionals. No-one is beyond criticism or question

Then learn not to bully, which many of you do. My criticism was not about your chosen way but the disrespect. You might not be one and I can't be bothered to look back and check, but there were plenty. I am glad my patients respected me better and proud we achieved our goals.

Sent from my SGP611 using Diabetes Forum mobile app

 

[Moggely]

Then learn not to bully, which many of you do. My criticism was not about your chosen way but the disrespect. You might not be one and I can't be bothered to look back and check, but there were plenty. I am glad my patients respected me better and proud we achieved our goals.

Sent from my SGP611 using Diabetes Forum mobile app

@Sani Thomas I agree with you on the disrespect and the bullying it seems to be a regular thing on this forum. I am not trying to start anything here but it's the truth, if one doesn't agree with the majority, one is our castered. Simple as that. I'm sorry you have been treated like that. Wishing you well as we all have different ways of helping ourselves and so far i don't believe there are any experts in here, just people who are learning. Hopefully by listening to others as well.

 

[kokhongw]

Has it ever crossed your mind that the lack of improvement is simply due to the progress of the condition and that you may have to move ahead with treatment.

Has it ever cross their mind that they could have been wrong all this while? Just as Dr Jason Fung did
https://idmprogram.com/my-journey/

Then came the inescapable, horrifying conclusion. We, as doctors, had been treating T2D exactlywrong. And that is why I have started this journey. Because with the proper treatment, T2D is a curable disease. T2D is a disease of too much insulin, just as obesity results from too much insulin. The treatment is to lower insulin, not raise it. We weren’t just not treating T2D, we were making it worse.[/QUOTE]

 

[JoKalsbeek]

So I have an appointment coming up and I will be quizzed about my diet (low carb and working very well). What do you say when you are lectured about eating carbs and how important they are. I’m fed up smiling sweetly and agreeing. I keep getting told I need carbs yet doing just fine on 20g a day. Thanks x

I took notes, and brought my own research. I had two dieticians over the years, one of which I'd seen previously about my obesity. She upped my carb intake while already ibsulin resistant due to PCOS, and I dutifully did what she perscribed. To the letter. I ballooned after that and became a T2. Went from obese to morbidly obese. Due to holidays I didn't see her again at first when diagnosed a T2, someone else filled in. She perscribed products with cow milk (which doesn't agree with me, which she knew both from me and my doc's notes to her), grapefruits in spite of being on statins at the time (those don't go well together), low fat and high carbs. Once the original dietician was back from holidays I'd read up a whole lot about low carb, high fat, and had implemented it. When I saw her I'd already gotten my HbA1c down to 42 and dropping, so she said she wasn't sure what I was seeing her for, as I was doing fine on my own. Then she perscribed, again, high carbs and low fat. And cowmilk products. And high carb fruits. I took notes, and said I would take her advice on board, but ALSO that I was happy eating the way I was. And she agreed it seemed to be working for me. She said I didn't need to see her again as I was basically on the right track, even if I wasn't following the EatWell plate. So that was that.

My doc used to be a surgeon before she was a gp, so she's pretty great all in all, but she admitted diabetes was far from her forte. I am happily her guinea pig, she knows I've gone keto in the past 4vor 5 months, and seeing how I'm doing, in person and in my bloodwork, helps her learn about the latest in T2 treatment and helps me feel supported and in good hands. She listens to me, and when I have questions -and I do- she talks to me like an equal, checks I'm not starving myself, becoming anorexic or malnourished, and is quite pleased with my HbA1c of 34. Basically... Just listen to one another, be respectful of opinions, and cobble together something that works for you.