Stopping Metformin

[MaryTC]

As a T2D (not using insulin) who has used Metformin for about 15 years now, I do not suffer too much from the gastric overflows and tolerate the max dose (2g / day). However, I have started to reduce my dosage of this drug as I find that my Low Carb llifestyle is a better way for me to control my bg's. I also suffer lactic acid build up in my calves, which I am told may be due to this medication. So far I have reduced by 2 tabs (i.e. 1000 mg) and my bgl average has risen by about 1 mmol/l and I find I spike a bit more than I was doing. So this is in line with the reported finding that Metformin has minimal effect on reducing bgl, and each tab will only drop bgl by a small amount. (much less than a single weetabix will spike it indeed) So I believe your high bgl levels are not really due to dropping the Metformin. I suspect your diet, as others have commented too.

Metformin is prescribed to us diabetics (both T1 and T2 etc) not as a bgl control drug, but more for the added protection it gives in reducing heart and circulatory problems and this is demonstrated to be good for us by several proper studies into long term use of the drug. Mortality rates are lowered by this drug, especially those nasty CVE's that diabetics are apparently more prone to,

I see some here are suggesting you use a ketogenic diet, but in my experience you can get good results simply by cutting down on carbs and processed foods. The keto part could follow later on. I have tried keto, and found it beneficial, but now I follow a higher carb level diet based on the Mediterranean diet which I can be more relaxed with. It is also a diet that my family can share to their benefit too, and it has certainly restored some of my insulin response so I am more carb tolerant now. Having said that I broke my rules last night and ate an Asda pastie, and had a nasty spike, so I am not cured yet. There are other diets too that can help you, so study the info on this forum and find what suits you best. The real answer is to keep a food log, and eat to meter to remove foods that your body finds intolerable.

Thank you Oldvatr really good advice

 

[Mbaker]

As a T2D (not using insulin) who has used Metformin for about 15 years now, I do not suffer too much from the gastric overflows and tolerate the max dose (2g / day). However, I have started to reduce my dosage of this drug as I find that my Low Carb llifestyle is a better way for me to control my bg's. I also suffer lactic acid build up in my calves, which I am told may be due to this medication. So far I have reduced by 2 tabs (i.e. 1000 mg) and my bgl average has risen by about 1 mmol/l and I find I spike a bit more than I was doing. So this is in line with the reported finding that Metformin has minimal effect on reducing bgl, and each tab will only drop bgl by a small amount. (much less than a single weetabix will spike it indeed) So I believe your high bgl levels are not really due to dropping the Metformin. I suspect your diet, as others have commented too.

Metformin is prescribed to us diabetics (both T1 and T2 etc) not as a bgl control drug, but more for the added protection it gives in reducing heart and circulatory problems and this is demonstrated to be good for us by several proper studies into long term use of the drug. Mortality rates are lowered by this drug, especially those nasty CVE's that diabetics are apparently more prone to,

I see some here are suggesting you use a ketogenic diet, but in my experience you can get good results simply by cutting down on carbs and processed foods. The keto part could follow later on. I have tried keto, and found it beneficial, but now I follow a higher carb level diet based on the Mediterranean diet which I can be more relaxed with. It is also a diet that my family can share to their benefit too, and it has certainly restored some of my insulin response so I am more carb tolerant now. Having said that I broke my rules last night and ate an Asda pastie, and had a nasty spike, so I am not cured yet. There are other diets too that can help you, so study the info on this forum and find what suits you best. The real answer is to keep a food log, and eat to meter to remove foods that your body finds intolerable.

Great balanced and experienced response, much if not all I have heard by other anecdotal replies.

 

[Oldvatr]

Great balanced and experienced response, much if not all I have heard by other anecdotal replies.

In the case of Metformin providing cardiac protection, it is a bit better than anecdotal. There are several fairly large scale RCT and meta studies that support the POV I expressed, Met is after all the most widely used and oldest serving pharmacutical product for diabetes, and is considered to be the safest diabetes drug to use. It has certainly been tested by both science and time.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28802803

 

[Resurgam]

As I could not report adverse effects of Metformin as it was being taken with a statin which it seems make it impossible to make a bad report of it, there could be a lot of people who were made really unwell but have gone unrecorded.
When taking the tablets I could not go out, could not take any exercise or exert myself - which could not have been a good thing. If Metformin was being tolerated, then perhaps some people benefited - but where it is not there seems to be a Nelsonian denial of the problem.

 

[Roseanne01]

What makes you say that?

Experience. Some bodies don't respond well to it. We all respond differently. I mean if it works for you, great but it made me very ill. And I’ve tried a few times.

 

[Roseanne01]

In the case of Metformin providing cardiac protection, it is a bit better than anecdotal. There are several fairly large scale RCT and meta studies that support the POV I expressed, Met is after all the most widely used and oldest serving pharmacutical product for diabetes, and is considered to be the safest diabetes drug to use. It has certainly been tested by both science and time.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28802803

Depends on what you mean by cardiac prevention. I’ve read so many different views in Metformin in the last thirty years, many of which contradict each other, that I no longer trust any of them.

 

[Roseanne01]

As a T2D (not using insulin) who has used Metformin for about 15 years now, I do not suffer too much from the gastric overflows and tolerate the max dose (2g / day). However, I have started to reduce my dosage of this drug as I find that my Low Carb llifestyle is a better way for me to control my bg's. I also suffer lactic acid build up in my calves, which I am told may be due to this medication. So far I have reduced by 2 tabs (i.e. 1000 mg) and my bgl average has risen by about 1 mmol/l and I find I spike a bit more than I was doing. So this is in line with the reported finding that Metformin has minimal effect on reducing bgl, and each tab will only drop bgl by a small amount. (much less than a single weetabix will spike it indeed) So I believe your high bgl levels are not really due to dropping the Metformin. I suspect your diet, as others have commented too.

Metformin is prescribed to us diabetics (both T1 and T2 etc) not as a bgl control drug, but more for the added protection it gives in reducing heart and circulatory problems and this is demonstrated to be good for us by several proper studies into long term use of the drug. Mortality rates are lowered by this drug, especially those nasty CVE's that diabetics are apparently more prone to,

I see some here are suggesting you use a ketogenic diet, but in my experience you can get good results simply by cutting down on carbs and processed foods. The keto part could follow later on. I have tried keto, and found it beneficial, but now I follow a higher carb level diet based on the Mediterranean diet which I can be more relaxed with. It is also a diet that my family can share to their benefit too, and it has certainly restored some of my insulin response so I am more carb tolerant now. Having said that I broke my rules last night and ate an Asda pastie, and had a nasty spike, so I am not cured yet. There are other diets too that can help you, so study the info on this forum and find what suits you best. The real answer is to keep a food log, and eat to meter to remove foods that your body finds intolerable.

I’m on it to reduce insulin resistance because I haven’t been able to exercise for a year and can still only do a little.

 

[bulkbiker]

Experience. Some bodies don't respond well to it. We all respond differently. I mean if it works for you, great but it made me very ill. And I’ve tried a few times.

No... I meant why do you say people here think that low carb means no carb? Not something I have ever seen.. there are carbs in all green veg and cream and milk as well as eggs so advocating "low carb" has never meant "no carb".

 

[Roseanne01]

No... I meant why do you say people here think that low carb means no carb? Not something I have ever seen.. there are carbs in all green veg and cream and milk as well as eggs so advocating "low carb" has never meant "no carb".[/QUOTE

Quite a lot of lists I read in response to other people's questions. Low carb doesn’t need to be ketogenic which is what I see most espousing. But always open to being wrong.Coukd be my personal experiences colouring my view.

 

[Resurgam]

but low carb is ketogenic in that it burns fat - that is what it means to be in ketosis - but people do tend to take a slightly blinkered approach - some athletic types could be losing weight on 90 gm of carbs a day, and less active bodies gain weight rapidly on the same regime - which is why Atkins is great for fine tuning a way of eating to the individual at that moment, rather than laying the law down on every tiny detail or how to lose weight or in our case, rule our blood sugars

 

[Indy51]

take aphidra and lantus insulins

Are you on fixed doses or MDI? I'd be very careful with your insulin doses and reducing carbs if you are on fixed doses.

 

[Oldvatr]

Low carb is not necessarily keto it just means less than about 150g per day. But the OP who started this thread is definitely wanting to use it as a keto diet. The Optifast meal replacement shakes used in the Newcastle Diet trial were designed to be high enough carbs to avoid most people going keto on 800 Cal a day, but their website does give a discussion on hypo symptoms and treatment since the diet may reach that threshold for some. I consider myself LC, but am not doing keto either, but I am also not doing 800 Cal a day. There are variations that each has to discover what works.

 

[bulkbiker]

@Roseanne01
Could be.. may also be that a lot of people get the best results with keto..so they like to get newcomers to try it.
The health benefits seem for most quite astonishing..What did you find didn't respond well to it?

 

[Oldvatr]

Could be.. may also be that a lot of people get the best results with keto..so they like to get newcomers to try it.
The health benefits seem for most quite astonishing..What did you find didn't respond well to it?

Presume you are replying to @Roseanne01 here, but are we still discussing stopping Metformin, or are we moving onto diets? Most find Metformin to be a bit like Marmite. Some think it is great, but many cannot stand it. There is some that experience a shortish period of gastric upset, but then things can settle down and can be tolerated (as per the patient literature) Some find that changing brands reduces the adverse effects, and some find changing to a Slow Release or XR / ER variant helps. However, it is necessary to at least consider any benefit it may give before going cold turkey on it. It is prescribed for good reasons.

 

[bulkbiker]

It is prescribed for good reasons.

First line of attack for GP's with no nutrition training perhaps?
Very cheap and out of patent?
I'm one of the nasty reaction to it people so got off it asap.
When I see people here say they have been struggling with being tied to the toilet for months whilst taking it I get a bit heated...

 

[ringi]

As I could not report adverse effects of Metformin as it was being taken with a statin which it seems make it impossible to make a bad report of it, there could be a lot of people who were made really unwell but have gone unrecorded.
When taking the tablets I could not go out, could not take any exercise or exert myself - which could not have been a good thing. If Metformin was being tolerated, then perhaps some people benefited - but where it is not there seems to be a Nelsonian denial of the problem.

That's a very good reason for people not to start a satin at the same time as any other drug.

 

[masonap]

hi everyone I am new on here and I've not been on a diabetes forum before! I am looking for advice. I am type 2 for the past ten years and take aphidra and lantus insulins up until yesterday I also took 2000 mg of Metformin each day but because of worsening tummy and bowel problems my GP stopped it yesterday and while even in this short time I feel better my fasting bs was 21.9 this morning and have struggled all day to get it down using lots about 240 units of Apidhra insulin today he advised me to check my blood sugars regularly and increase insulin as needed to any advice from type 2 s would be very welcome please!!! Also I am very insulin resistant and find it difficult to lose weight thanks in advance. Mary

Sorry but as someone else said in a reply to 'what have you eaten today', that's not low carb!
Cut out all bread, pasta, rice & potatoes, breakfast cereals, and it goes without saying cut out everything that you know has sugar in it (sweets, chocolate, cakes, biscuits, pasties, pork pies, etc) and everything made with flour (any colour flour, with or without seeds and nuts). In a while you can re-introduce very small portions of some of these, for example occasionally I might have one or two (at most tow) small new potatoes, or a small portion of pasta, but generally I avoid them if I can. Be careful you don't each too much fruit as all sugar, in its various forms are not good for us.
Good things: Cheese, butter, vegetables, meat (and sausages and bacon), fish, nuts, eggs, salads, Greek yogurt (not too much), strawberries and other berries are OK in reasonable quantities. If you want a treat try dark chocolate, at least 70%, but only a couple of squares. Once you start looking there are plenty of 'no carb' options (or very very low carb options).
I've been trying to eat like this for a little while, I've lost tons of weight, I've halved all my meds, and I feel a lot better.
I wish you luck.

 

[Oldvatr]

First line of attack for GP's with no nutrition training perhaps?
Very cheap and out of patent?
I'm one of the nasty reaction to it people so got off it asap.
When I see people here say they have been struggling with being tied to the toilet for months whilst taking it I get a bit heated...

I would add:- Used since the Middle Ages for treatment of diabetes in folk medicine - see French Lily and Glucophage or Goat's Rue. So yes, definitely 'off patent'.

 

[MaryTC]

So it has been just over a week since I stopped taking Metformin, I have reduced carb intake I.e. No bread flour products no weetabix porridge etc.. Bacon eggs for breakfast ...cold meat chicken salmon cheese for lunch or supper not processed meats etc dinner meat and lots of veg had my bloods done you just get the basics here in Ireland at least with my GP kidney function fine, liver fatty, hb1ac room for lots of improvement no numbers of course, cholesterol 5.4 would like it to be under 5 and I'm low in iron under 10 should be between 12 and 15. I've had to take at least between 60 and 80 units of Apidra before meals definitely can't cope with carbs without the Metformin and 150 units of lantus before bed took only 110 unit last night! BG started off being in the low 20s mmol to between 10 and 14 for the last few days so at least going down! On the plus side no stomach bloating and no diarrhoea, however because I have had this for so long my bo function seems to have become ineffective and now when I go to the toilet I get spasms in my pelvic floor so if anyone has had the same issues would I need to up fibre intake perhaps???? Anyhow just to let you know how I got on this week. I have agreed to be referred back to the diabetic clinic maybe they have more effective treatments now. It's been at least 7 years since I was last there, I just found them not to be very helpful! Hope you've all been well!

 

[mickey4]

well...one can read and read and get more confused
I am type 2...3 years.....got my BG levels down by low carb and 2 x500 metformin each day
recently saw D Nurse.....average BG down to 5.8
but spikes happen and often my BG is now 7.4 to 8.3 fasting in the morning....then possibly in late eve 10 or 12... before changing metformin to 1/day readings were approx. 6.3 in morning
nurse suggested coming off metformin.....but I said ..no.....then compromised by having 1 metformin now/ day
It is difficult to know what to eat to keeps carbs ultra low