Deep dive into vegan vs. low carb/keto

[NicoleC1971]

Geek out! Chris Masterjohn (phd nutrtionist and podcaster) reviews a discussion between a vegan cardiologist (Khan) and a low carb expert (Cresser). Good explanation of where the studies quoted come from and how to interpret them.

 

[Resurgam]

You can see why little progress can be made when there are these angels dancing on pinheads type of arguments going on.

 

[JohnEGreen]

Do angels dance on pinheads? I didn't think there would be enough room mind you I suppose that would depend on how many of them there are.

 

[Hungry19]

Geek out! Chris Masterjohn (phd nutrtionist and podcaster) reviews a discussion between a vegan cardiologist (Khan) and a low carb expert (Cresser).

Watched this - the fail - was the interviewer :
“Ask a stupid question - get a stupid answer”
The problem of questioning was - ambiguity.
Or Grammar (I, you, we, they, us, everyone)
The question should have been asked - which diet for WHO?
A fit person can eat anything!
A coeliac no wheat/grains
Diabetic no sugar/carbs

Cholesterol is not found in Vegan diet
Some foods have high insulin load - butter is low but milk is higher than cream.

Each food should be taken on individual macro- rather than into vegetarian carnivore, vegan , pescatarian - with strict adherence policies/morals.

Furthermore about strict guidelines, if vegetarians can take supplements, so could those on a carnivore diet.

It was nice but sad that this interview had to be interpreted

 

[JohnEGreen]

Found this blog.

http://treeoflifecenterus.com/blog-posts-by-gabriel-cousens-m-d-deficiencies-on-a-meat-based-diet-2/

"Veganism can be problematic if it involves a high complex-carbohydrate, moderately low-fat diet. This is not the best diet, and deserves to be attacked. A high sugar diet is not the best for longevity, and certainly not the best for diabetes. The best diet is plant-based fat that hasn’t been cooked at high temperatures. Here is an example of how research findings get distorted: Meat-centered diet proponents argue that many studies showed Eskimos did well on meat. This is true, but the Eskimos ate raw meat. Once they started cooking meat, heart disease rates went up dramatically."

Then goes on to say.

"Evolutionary trends are showing that we are moving towards a global vegan diet. It’s meant to be that way. It’s a biblical prophecy, and part of preparing for the prophesized wide-scale moral refinement."

Sounds like a Vegan Crusader making one big erroneous assumption regarding evolutionary processes.

 

[briped]

It’s a biblical prophecy, and part of preparing for the prophesized wide-scale moral refinement."

That statement is scary! Better make myself some eggs and bacon now.

 

[Sue192]

…. It’s a biblical prophecy, and part of preparing for the prophesized wide-scale moral refinement."

And that is particularly scary.

 

[Guzzler]

Aye. Again with taking the moral high ground (pedestal anyone?).

Well, there's no hope for me as a meat eating atheist.

Hey @briped got enough bacon for me?

 

[Member496333]

Ultimately, dietary epidemiology in all camps is a nonsense “science” when it comes to showing causation. It’s prohibitively expensive and almost impossible to build an RCT that can prove causation. The best anyone can expect is association, which is about as conclusive as asserting that blue socks cause cancer. I recall reading not so long ago that a group of resreachers did some dummy epidemiology studies that successfully showed links between all sorts of tenuous rubbish. Not too dissimilar to the blue socks example above. Publish one of these studies in The Guardian and suddenly it’s scientific fact

What epidemiology can do however, is disprove causation through lack of statistically significant association. And there are quite a few such studies showing that much of the commonly accepted dietary dogma is little more than a work of fiction.

 

[briped]

Hey @briped got enough bacon for me?

I'm cooking another batch with melted cheese on top. When can I expect you?

 

[Guzzler]

I'm cooking another batch with melted cheese on top. When can I expect you?

I'll get my coat .

 

[briped]

I'll get my coat .

I'll keep it warm. How many eggs? Chives?

 

[Guzzler]

I've just been reading Moseley's piece regarding EAT Lancet, one point early on stunned me because they recommend just one egg per week as part of the animal protein allowance! One egg isn't enough to fill the gaps between my teeth.

 

[briped]

One egg isn't enough to fill the gaps between my teeth.

Thanks for reminding me to put them on my shopping list. I've got 3 in my fridge, and you're welcome to them. Tonight's dinner is chicken cordon bleau, if you want some.

 

[Guzzler]

Thanks for reminding me to put them on my shopping list. I've got 3 in my fridge, and you're welcome to them. Tonight's dinner is chicken cordon bleau, if you want some.

Careful! I will be wanting to move in

 

[briped]

Careful! I will be wanting to move in

That's perfectly fine, especially if you love cooking I will be meeting another forum member in Copenhagen come May - if Brexit permits. Look forward to it.