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LCHF without ketosis - Beneficial?

Shas3

Shas3

Well-Known Member
Messages
653
Location
Indonesia
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Ok, i am new and just reading all the discussions on LCHF and Keto and carb counting and everything is absolutely enlightening but equally intimidating. I am slowly digesting (!!!) and understand LCHF benefits. Keto still sounds very intimidating. And today (just one day) i cut my carbs consciously (no major counting, just half of what I would normally eat) and just added bit more of butter, cheese, olive oil and peanut butter here and there. And measured my bgs over 12 times. And I noticed two things :

- All readings below 9
- No hunger at anytime

Both these are extremely pleasant surprises. So i am keen to push the boundaries. My question: Is it absolutely necessary to get into ketosis to benefit from a LCHF diet or does it work even without getting into ketosis?

For some reason the idea of body going to a “different metabolism” and “getting kicked out of ketosis” etc. sound a little scary.

So LCHF+No Ketosis Useful???

P.S: Sorry if this is repetitive. I did try reading old posts but the information is indeed a lot and quite overwhelming. Thanks everyone
 
Hi Shas. I limit my carbs to between 30g - 50g. I doubt I’m in ketosis at that level. However by doing that I have lost a shed load of weight, maintained my HbA1c in the mid 30s for 18 months now, reduced by blood pressure meds and improved my cholesterol ratios. That’s me, your body may react differently but give low carbing a try, if it doesn’t achieve the results you want then maybe consider keto.
 
Rachox said:
Hi Shas. I limit my carbs to between 30g - 50g. I doubt I’m in ketosis at that level. However by doing that I have lost a shed load of weight, maintained my HbA1c in the mid 30s for 18 months now, reduced by blood pressure meds and improved my cholesterol ratios. That’s me, your body may react differently but give low carbing a try, if it doesn’t achieve the results you want then maybe consider keto.
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Thanks. Very encouraging and useful. Are you also HF in addition to LC?? Actually i am not too keen to lose weight. Just want less fluctuations in BGs and no hungers and no low-energy feels
 
Shas3 said:
Thanks. Very encouraging and useful. Are you also HF in addition to LC?? Actually i am not too keen to lose weight. Just want less fluctuations in BGs and no hungers and no low-energy feels
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I don’t go mad on the fats, just enough to stop me feeling hungry. If you don’t want the weight loss you could eat more fat.
 
Shas3 said:
For some reason the idea of body going to a “different metabolism” and “getting kicked out of ketosis” etc. sound a little scary.
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A lot of people (me included) would say that being in ketosis is how the body was designed to function before we introduced it to a man made diet. ("Man - the only animal stupid enough to fabricate its own food and stupid enough to eat it!" kind of thing).
I find it has helped enormously with blood glucose control and a whole raft of other health problems that I had pre keto.
I'd suggest giving it a go and not fussing overly about macros etc but simply try to reduce carbs to a minimum.
Lots of meat, fish, eggs. Eat only above ground veg cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage. Mushrooms are good as well as dairy but you don't need to go overboard on the fats just don't avoid them. Cheese great too but maybe try to cut out the peanut butter and go for some almonds or macadamias instead - eat the nuts rather than the butter (which usually has some nasties added) . After a couple of days you might even end up doing some fasting! And if you want to see dramatic reduction in blood sugar then fasting is ace!
 
I fully understand your thoughts, @Shas3 and your questions emulate my own, in the past. I have reduced carbs to around 100 a day and upped fats to levels I hadn’t been at for a couple of decades. It definitely works and has worked on me.

I don’t go hungry and probably eat less than I used to.
 
@bulkbiker point of information here: in (east coast) US it is very easy to buy nut butters that are nothing but nuts that somebody else has ground up for you and vacuum-sealed in a jar for shelf life. 25 years ago it was harder, but now they are mainstream. I don’t know about where you are.
 
@Bulkboker : Totally understand that on the African Savannah we were never designed for agriculture and eating wheat and corn! Very likely that ketosis is normal human metabolism that we screwed up in the last few millennia...

Thanks for your suggestions. Am going LCHF in a more planned way soon! Will see how it goes and read a bit more on keto and then see how it goes. Thanks a lot
 
zauberflote said:
@bulkbiker point of information here: in (east coast) US it is very easy to buy nut butters that are nothing but nuts that somebody else has ground up for you and vacuum-sealed in a jar for shelf life. 25 years ago it was harder, but now they are mainstream. I don’t know about where you are.
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Yes. Available for sure but here (in developing countries!!) a tad difficult to find and costs a bomb usually. But yes, there are great butters without nasty stuff!
 
Listlad said:
I fully understand your thoughts, @Shas3 and your questions emulate my own, in the past. I have reduced carbs to around 100 a day and upped fats to levels I hadn’t been at for a couple of decades. It definitely works and has worked on me.

I don’t go hungry and probably eat less than I used to.
Click to expand...

Fantastic. Very encouraging. Thanks. Am feeling so much better that i can tackle this!!!!
 
Being 'kicked out of ketosis' is not something to be scared of even for those who chase ketones (chasing ketones refers usually to people like body builders or sometimes those who do not really understand the concept). Some people reach ketosis at 30g per day and others find they must go sub 20g to see ketones.

At the begining, once someone has decided to address and use dietary management to improve outcomes I feel that priority should be given to bg numbers and the downgrading of frequency and levels of insulin response. Then, if one wishes, one can aim for ketosis using 'well formulated ketogenic diet' Prof. Steve Phinney. However, going straight to a ketogenic diet has its benefits. The time it takes to beat carb craving is shorter and bg levels may respond more quickly. The decision is yours, both LCHF and Ketogenic diets are safe* and with regard to changing one's metabolism our ancestors did it all the time, switching from fat storage mode to fat burning mode along with seasonal food sources.

*A very low carb or ketogenic diet is not recommended for those on SGLT2 inhibitor medications.
 
Guzzler said:
Being 'kicked out of ketosis' is not something to be scared of even for those who chase ketones (chasing ketones refers usually to people like body builders or sometimes those who do not really understand the concept). Some people reach ketosis at 30g per day and others find they must go sub 20g to see ketones.

At the begining, once someone has decided to address and use dietary management to improve outcomes I feel that priority should be given to bg numbers and the downgrading of frequency and levels of insulin response. Then, if one wishes, one can aim for ketosis using 'well formulated ketogenic diet' Prof. Steve Phinney. However, going straight to a ketogenic diet has its benefits. The time it takes to beat carb craving is shorter and bg levels may respond more quickly. The decision is yours, both LCHF and Ketogenic diets are safe* and with regard to changing one's metabolism our ancestors did it all the time, switching from fat storage mode to fat burning mode along with seasonal food sources.

*A very low carb or ketogenic diet is not recommended for those on SGLT2 inhibitor medications.
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Great. Understand and useful!! I was on Farxiga (I think it is SGLT2 inhibitor). Just around a week ago I stopped it (as per doctor advice) as i was having some terrible side effects. Now i am on only Metformin XR 500 x 2. If LCHF works well (based on my 1 day trial it definitely looks good) i want to decrease Metformin to once a day.

Thanks for the information. Let me get more comfortable before diving into keto.

Thanks
 
zauberflote said:
@bulkbiker point of information here: in (east coast) US it is very easy to buy nut butters that are nothing but nuts that somebody else has ground up for you and vacuum-sealed in a jar for shelf life. 25 years ago it was harder, but now they are mainstream. I don’t know about where you are.
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Peanut only butter is very very easy to buy in the UK too.
I do not understand the suggestion to avoid it.
 
helensaramay said:
Peanut only butter is very very easy to buy in the UK too.
I do not understand the suggestion to avoid it.
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Probably because peanuts are not a true nut but are legumes, higher in carbs and in the case of peanuts or peanut butter very more-ish so quantity matters.
 
I currently limit my carbs to around 20g a day but have no clue if I am in keto or not. I sort of assume that I must be but I am not concerned about finding out since I feel great, am maintaining my weight without effort, and my blood sugar levels appear good.
I had my blood taken yesterday for my second HbAc1 so will soon know for sure if it is working as well as it seems. I thought about buying some strips to test for ketones before realising that it didn't really matter very much if everything else falls into place. I am trying not to overthink it and focus on the fact that carbs are the problem and avoiding them the solution.
 
Muddikins said:
I currently limit my carbs to around 20g a day but have no clue if I am in keto or not. I sort of assume that I must be but I am not concerned about finding out since I feel great, am maintaining my weight without effort, and my blood sugar levels appear good.
I had my blood taken yesterday for my second HbAc1 so will soon know for sure if it is working as well as it seems. I thought about buying some strips to test for ketones before realising that it didn't really matter very much if everything else falls into place. I am trying not to overthink it and focus on the fact that carbs are the problem and avoiding them the solution.
Click to expand...

Great Muddikins... i like that approach of not bothering if one is in keto or not and just focus on cutting carbs and adding fat to get to good numbers and feeling healthy!! I think that’s the right mindset for me!!! Thanks
 
zauberflote said:
@bulkbiker point of information here: in (east coast) US it is very easy to buy nut butters that are nothing but nuts that somebody else has ground up for you and vacuum-sealed in a jar for shelf life. 25 years ago it was harder, but now they are mainstream. I don’t know about where you are.
Click to expand...
Agree and they are available in the UK too but.... I'm not convinced that grinding stuff up into an unnatural state is as good as eating it as it comes naturally. I think it may allow excessive consumption.. but that's just me. Peanuts anyway aren't nuts but legumes so maybe best avoided..
Edit to add and peanut butter is 12% carbs, hyper palatable and easily eaten with a spoon so measurement is made harder.
 
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Ketosis is a perfectly natural metabolic pathway. It’s just the flipside of glycolysis. Humans are designed to store unused energy and then access it later when needed. Accessing it later when needed is nutritional ketosis. Every human should be metabolically flexible enough to switch between both fuel sources automatically. Even while we sleep it shouldn’t be unusual to be in a mild state of ketosis. Everyone who has ever lost any weight has been burning ketone bodies.

The problem with modern humans is that most are awash with insulin 24/7 which limits or prevents ketosis. Insulin is what “kicks you out of ketosis” because it activates de novo lipogenesis - filling adipocytes with fat - which is the opposite of burning fat.
 
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