Is energy need less on keto diet?

[resander]

I am learning, experimenting, moving towards a ketodiet... For example:

breakfast 1hiloslice+2hamslices+cheeseslice+2frankfurters
carb 5+1.6+0+1.4=8 kcal 90+100+100+200=490
morningsnack 20gGreekStyleYogurt+50graspberries
carb 2+2=4 kcal 25+5=30
lunch 2quarterpunders+cheesetopping+2poachedeggs
carb 0.4 kcal 342+100+150=492
dinner 80gpotatoes+Japanesemeatcurry
carb 12+2=14 kcal 50+250=300
----------
Carbs 26 kcal 1312

My daily energy requirement to maintain weight: 1700kcal approx
Energy shortage: 400kcal (been about the same for other experimental day menus too)

I can top up to reach 1700kcal, by coffee+doublecream. Is that necessary, or is the energy need less while on a ketodiet?
(Dr Eric Berg says it is in 'Dr. Berg's Healthy Keto Basics')

 

[Rustytypin]

Hi @resander , my understanding is that on keto we need to keep up the calories to about our normal levels (unless wishing to loose weight). If we go into a calorie deficit then the body reduces its base metabolic rate by as much as 500cals worth. If you wish to loose weight then intermittent fasting seems to be the way to go as it keeps the body guessing. Keep up your cals up by eating fats to compensate for the lack of carbs.

 

[bulkbiker]

I am learning, experimenting, moving towards a ketodiet... For example:

breakfast 1hiloslice+2hamslices+cheeseslice+2frankfurters
carb 5+1.6+0+1.4=8 kcal 90+100+100+200=490
morningsnack 20gGreekStyleYogurt+50graspberries
carb 2+2=4 kcal 25+5=30
lunch 2quarterpunders+cheesetopping+2poachedeggs
carb 0.4 kcal 342+100+150=492
dinner 80gpotatoes+Japanesemeatcurry
carb 12+2=14 kcal 50+250=300
----------
Carbs 26 kcal 1312

My daily energy requirement to maintain weight: 1700kcal approx
Energy shortage: 400kcal (been about the same for other experimental day menus too)

I can top up to reach 1700kcal, by coffee+doublecream. Is that necessary, or is the energy need less while on a ketodiet?
(Dr Eric Berg says it is in 'Dr. Berg's Healthy Keto Basics')

Not a Berg or potato fan.. can't you have something else like cauliflower or broccoli? Most people on a ketogenic way of eating wouldn't touch potato or for that matter bread..

 

[Member496333]

Energy intake can be less when in nutritional ketosis because the body is able to readily switch to mobilising stored energy when dietary energy is depleted. Even very slim people have many thousands of stored calories waiting to be used. The problem for many is that those calories cannot be easily accessed, owning to almost permanently elevated blood insulin concentrations.

If you are on a well formulated ketogenic dietary plan then you can comfortably ingest significantly less energy than you expend without hunger. This is why it’s such a successful diet for rapid loss of body fat

 

[resander]

(65.1kg, male, 172cm, sedentary, 22.2BMI), so do not want to reduce weight.

@Rustytypin thanks, I also thought the body needs energy to maintain the basic metabolic rate + a bit more to function at applicable activity level, in my case a day total of 1700kcal. I can top up by black coffee + 50 to 60ml double cream, which adds 0.8g to the daily carbs total.

@bulkbiker, I have replaced the single slice of Hi-Lo bread (5g carb) with 2 boiled eggs and 100g broccoli
and the potatoes with 100g broccoli and 100g cauliflower:

breakfast 2boiledeggs+100gbroccoli+2hamslices+cheeseslice +2frankfurters
carb 0+2.8+1.4+0+1.4=5.6 kcal 150+30+100+100+200=580
morningsnack 20gGreekStyleYogurt+50graspberries
carb 2+2=4 kcal 25+5=30
lunch 2quarterpunders+cheesetopping+2poachedeggs
carb 0.4 kcal 342+100+150=492
dinner 100gbroccoli+100gcauliflower+Japanesemeatcurry
carb 2.8+3.5=6.3 kcal 30+30+250=310
----------
Carbs 16 kcal 1412

 

[Member496333]

In that case just eat fat/protein to satiety and ignore calories. Your body will maintain weight all on its own when it’s happy.

 

[bulkbiker]

So is this what you are eating or what you intend to eat?
In your shoes I'd be skipping the breakfast and morning snack and eating more for the other two meals. I found intermittent fasting and keto a very powerful regime.

 

[resander]

@bulkbiker I have replaced Hi-Lo bread slice and (new/baby)potatoes
in day menu and eaten.

Slice Hi-Lo: carb=5 kcal=90
100g Potatoes: carb=15 kcal=70
100g Broccoli: carb=2.8 kcal=30
100g Cauliflower: carb=3.5 kcal=30
1 large Boiledegg: carb=0 kcal=70

Replacing Hi-Lo bread with 2 boiled eggs and 100g broccoli
reduces carb by 2.5g and increases kcal by 80. Small carb saving.

Replacing 100g (new/baby)potatoes with 100g broccoli and 100g cauliflower reduces carb by 9g and kcal by 10. Big carb saving.

@bulkbiker Sausages like frankfurters, bockwursts and hot dogs are all processed, contain preservatives and are usually smoked.
OK for keto?

 

[bulkbiker]

Sausages like frankfurters, bockwursts and hot dogs are all processed, contain preservatives and are usually smoked.
OK for keto?

I try to get very high meat low carbohydrate versions. Not sure where you are located.. but I get something like these

https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/meica-6-frankfurters/069117-35055-35056

0.5g carb per 100g so negligible.. and I have no prob with those remaining in ketosis.

 

[JohnH2019]

...Sausages like frankfurters, bockwursts and hot dogs are all processed, contain preservatives and are usually smoked.
OK for keto?

When you are trying to get healthy, reducing insults as much as you can will help. Adding chemicals and unhealthy fats and proteins are not going to help. Also, many processed meats contain a surprising amount of sugar often hidden in innocent sounding names. Japanese meat curry, depending on how you make it or buy it can contain surprisingly large amounts of sugar, so please check the ingredients.

Try some grass fed organic beef, or chicken instead. Another easy and healthy way to add some calories is to have some nuts and seeds. For an afternoon snack I will often have a few spoons of hemp seeds and a handful of nuts. Also increasing your non-starch vegetable variety and quantity will help.

What are you drinking? I cut out everything except water, tea and coffee, which again helps cut out unnecessary sugars and carbs.

Look into intermittent fasting as bulkbiker mentioned. Try to eat all your food in a 10-12 hour window during the day, which will also help produce ketones.

Ketogenic diet should not equate unhealthy, quite the opposite. Have a look at Mark Sisson and his primal blueprint information.

 

[resander]

@bulkbiker
There is no nearby Waitrose. I usually buy Wikinger or Herta brands
@(ASDA,Tesco,Sainsbury)
Wikinger Bockwurst style Hot Dogs 550g
per 45g sausage carb 0.45g kcal=100

Herta 10 Herta @(many) Classic Frankfurter Hot Dogs 10 Pack 350G
per 35g sausage carb 0.7g kcal=100

@JohnH2019
Restricting sausages to once or twice per week helps to minimise harm.
True. Japanese curry is a potential trouble maker since Japanese Curry powders contain carbohydrates. The S&B brand contains 10.6g carb per portion (two teaspoons according to instructions on the can). Adding white flour as thickener makes it worse. Then adding 'old' potatoes (and overcooking) and serving on white rice makes it a carbohydrate bomb.