Carb Cycling

[HSSS]

I’m an insulin resistant T2. I’m not eating any carbs as I don’t want to die a slow death,

Not good advice to a new T2 reading the forum

Why is this not good advice? I appreciate it may be viewed as a bit of a shock tactic approach but it’s accurate.

A type 2 that eats carbs will damage their bodies over time. That may be slowed by medications if diet change isn’t undertaken but it still happens. Hence the reason type 2 has alsways been known as chronic and progressive, with long term complications that may result in death as the norm.

 

[JohnEGreen]

Question.

In the initial post by the term carb cycling...

With a source of fuel as carbs and another as keyones... it takes time for the body to change between both modes...

Could it be used to aid weight loss... ?

My wife found something along these lines but no diabetes in her... my answer to her was maybe...

And my answer to you is maybe as I am no expert on this it is a new concept for me as well.

Though the Altus Health rep did basically say it's a gradual pathway to LCHF which is their ultimate aim.

 

[Rustytypin]

Wow - that's huge. I'd like to read more - do you have a reference for this fact?

I was on holiday in the USA last month. Going on the food on offer for Breakfast and Dinner (skipped lunch every day) I would say that the average person eats far more than can be good for them. Huge portions, plus Carbs, carbs and more carbs! All low fat, high sugar. Good food was difficult to find, without leaving the "rubbish" on the plate. Just my 10 day experience.
The result shows in the size of many people in the street, I would say the majority are over their ideal weight.

 

[JohnEGreen]

Why is this not good advice? I appreciate it may be viewed as a bit of a shock tactic approach but it’s accurate.

A type 2 that eats carbs will damage their bodies over time. That may be slowed by medications if diet change isn’t undertaken but it still happens. Hence the reason type 2 has alsways been known as chronic and progressive, with long term complications that may result in death as the norm.

That maybe true but never the less it may be unwise to inform or give a stricture to newly diagnosed T2's that they must no longer eat carbs at all in order to prevent severe or long term complication because it's simply untrue.

 

[Caeseji]

I'll also mention where a lot of people get it wrong is that they forget to reduce the fat content when they carb up so it causes all sorts of turmoil and havoc. A lot of stuff might be low fat but it will be fat enough to really screw when given that much carbs on top of it all along with how inflammatory it can be. I can see this potentially working with cleaner carbs like tubers and so on but most of the time a lot of them just start woofing down the processed things again.

 

[Deleted Account]

@Caeseji can explain what you mean by “cleaner carbs like tubers”?

 

[Caeseji]

@Caeseji can explain what you mean by “cleaner carbs like tubers”?

Basically unprocessed ones so root veg and so on that normally someone on keto would shy away from along with rice in different configurations or home baked bread. Things you know what's gone into them and still count as whole foods.

 

[Major Buckmaster]

I was on holiday in the USA last month. Going on the food on offer for Breakfast and Dinner (skipped lunch every day) I would say that the average person eats far more than can be good for them. Huge portions, plus Carbs, carbs and more carbs! All low fat, high sugar. Good food was difficult to find, without leaving the "rubbish" on the plate. Just my 10 day experience.
The result shows in the size of many people in the street, I would say the majority are over their ideal weight.

Depends on where you go. I found New York and Washington DC to be good food choice wise.

You should see Saudi. I went there and the amount of food on a single plate is unreal. Ive certainly not seen anything like it personally!

 

[Member496333]

In fairness to @wiflib, no advice was offered to anyone. As far as I could see she was merely stating her own position based on her own condition and insulin resistance.

 

[bulkbiker]

Wow - that's huge. I'd like to read more - do you have a reference for this fact?
I am sure you are not suggesting all people (or at least all Americans) with Type 2 or pre-diabetes is just down to their lousy diet and good choices. My understanding is that diabetes is much more complex than that.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/11/181128115045.htm
Probably along the lines of this one...

 

[bulkbiker]

That maybe true but never the less it may be unwise to inform or give a stricture to newly diagnosed T2's that they must no longer eat carbs at all in order to prevent severe or long term complication because it's simply untrue.

Wouldn't do an iota of harm though?

 

[HSSS]

That maybe true ...... it's simply untrue.

Now I’m confused what you think is true and untrue.

If we disregard a little semantic nitpicking over exact wording - I think telling new type 2 that to no longer eat (more than minimal) carbs in order to prevent severe or long term complication is the wisest and best thing that could be said to them and is completely true.

I accept not everyone will choose or manage to follow that advice for a variety of reasons, nor does it mean all hope is lost if they don’t, but it remains their best chance as things stand at the moment. As far as I can tell the evidence is out there to support my statement and this forum is chock full of it.

 

[JohnEGreen]

Wouldn't do an iota of harm though?

Depends on what you consider harm I personally think it would be harmful to scare newbies off and have them remove themselves from a great source of good advise and maybe end up not reducing carbs at all or changing their diets because they feel what's being asked of them is unattainable or undo-able.

Then again this is just my opinion and can also be disregarded if you wish.

 

[JohnEGreen]

Now I’m confused what you think is true and untrue.

This
That you have to completely abstain from carbohydrates in order to prevent complications there is low carb and there is zero carbs and when someone tells me that unless I go zero carbs my legs will drop off I am disinclined to believe them.
As to what I believe to be true one example is that the first moon landing actually took place and was not faked.

 

[HSSS]

Depends on what you consider harm I personally think it would be harmful to scare newbies off and have them remove themselves from a great source of good advise and maybe end up not reducing carbs at all or changing their diets because they feel what's being asked of them is unattainable or undo-able.

Then again this is just my opinion and can also be disregarded if you wish.

Ah so it’s the abruptness and shock value of the idea of very low carb that you feel is the problem rather than the truth of the statement. In which case yes I suppose some may be scared away by what seems unattainable or undoable (it is neither) before they learn how to achieve it or how to get at least some way towards it, which I agree would be unfortunate.

 

[HSSS]

That you have to completely abstain from carbohydrates in order to prevent complications there is low carb and there is zero carbs and when someone tells me that unless I go zero carbs my legs will drop off I am disinclined to believe them.

I guess if you choose to interpret it quite so literally and extremely then your view makes more sense. I didn’t read the comment that way.

 

[porl69]

@HSSS you, obviously, do not eat carbs. Do you find that protein raises your BGs? If I eat no carbs in a meal I have to have a small bolus for the protein in the meal as I will get a BG rise

 

[JohnEGreen]

I think telling new type 2 that to no longer eat (more than minimal) carbs in order to prevent severe or long term complication

That is not what was said the phrase used is and I quote "I’m an insulin resistant T2. I’m not eating any carbs as I don’t want to die a slow death,"

 

[HSSS]

That is not what was said the phrase used is and I quote "I’m an insulin resistant T2. I’m not eating any carbs as I don’t want to die a slow death,"

I agree.

I was stating my opinion and my interpretation of the post. I already stated I wasn’t as literal as you, specifically regarding the word “any”. For the record nor did it say “That you have to completely abstain from carbohydrates in order to prevent complications “ or “unless I go zero carbs my legs will drop off” specifically either.

I feel I’ve made my view clear and understood yours now. We obviously have differing views. I’m disinclined to argue semantics further and thus derail the thread anymore than we have.

 

[HSSS]

@HSSS you, obviously, do not eat carbs. Do you find that protein raises your BGs? If I eat no carbs in a meal I have to have a small bolus for the protein in the meal as I will get a BG rise

I do eat some, just not many. I have never noticed protein causing a rise in me. But neither do I inject insulin or use any other medication and have more than my share of my own insulin (I assume anyway never having been tested) so perhaps that makes a difference in either response to protein or the visibility of any such rise.