An Encounter with DESMOND

[Listlad]

I have never been invited or encouraged to attend a DESMOND meeting / course / programme. But I have read many posts on this forum of bad experiences with DESMOND.

On Thursday I had the opportunity to speak to one of their representatives at a local Self Care afternoon at our local community centre. I hadn’t anticipated being available to attend but eventually had a day off work. I had my little girl with me and had promised her an afternoon out. So I managed to squeeze in some time to establish whether what I had read on the forum was true.

It turns out that my encounter confirmed my suspicions. Sure enough we couldn’t possibly go low carb as we need carbs for energy. The good lady had not heard of Dr David Unwin and greeted low carbing with a fair degree of negativity.

I explained that I was glad I squeezed the time in to speak to them as it confirmed what I had heard was all too true.

She had never heard of Diabetes.co.uk but had Diabetes UK leaflets on her stall.

The good lady didn’t seem to be phased by my own success having reduced my blood sugar with a lower carb higher fat diet and kept on gravitating back to a need for carbs in ones diet and what came across as an EatWell plan way of eating.

 

[Deleted member 308541]

The good lady didn’t seem to be phased by my own success having reduced my blood sugar with a lower carb higher fat diet and kept on gravitating back to a need for carbs in ones diet and what came across as an EatWell plan way of eating.

Old saying @Listlad: Do not argue with a *****, he / she will drag you down to their level of intelligence and beat you with experience.

(stars edited in by mod)

 

[Listlad]

Old saying @Listlad: Do not argue with a *****, he / she will drag you down to their level of intelligence and beat you with experience.

Exactly. It was good experience for me as it was straight from the horses mouth. I did explain to her that things will be changing soon anyway.

She also said that there was no supporting evidence for LCHF success but I pointed out that the evidence lays in the meter readings of many Type 2 diabetics and those who have reversed their symptoms. Don’t think that made a difference but interesting to see her responses all the same.

(edited by mod to adjust quote)

 

[dpoet]

I'm on the DESMOND course on Tuesday, I can see me just walking out.

 

[Listlad]

I'm on the DESMOND course on Tuesday, I can see me just walking out.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

I'm on the DESMOND course on Tuesday, I can see me just walking out.

No one can stop you walking out, that's your prerogative. I've never been given the opportunity, but if I was to attend, I'd stay for the whole thing just so I could write a full and accurate account of what I thought of their course. I hope you enjoy it anyway.

By the way, I'm always surprised when I hear the "you need carbs for energy" thing. I've kept my carbs below 50gms per day for the last 5 years and my overall health is considerably better now than it was. Obviously I didn't need the carbs they suggest and I clearly didn't need the calories recommended.

 

[Mr_Pot]

The DESMOND course is designed for those without much knowledge of diabetes and that is part of the reason for critism from people on here who have done their own research. On the course I attended hardly anyone knew the difference between Type 1 and Type 2 or knew what Hba1c meant. My course consisted of two afternoons, the first from a DN explaining diabetes, the second was from a dietitian about diet. Even the diet part contained lots of useful information, food labelling for example. The idea that the whole course is about the Eatwell Guide is not true. It was mentioned but that was perhaps 5% of the course. Also I suspect although they recommend carbs, the type and portions were a drastic improvement for some of those on the course. If you attend a course where you are not the typical recipient, it is not really fair to criticise the course.

 

[Listlad]

By the way, I'm always surprised when I hear the "you need carbs for energy" thing. I've kept my carbs below 50gms per day for the last 5 years and my overall health is considerably better now than it was. Obviously I didn't need the carbs they suggest and I clearly didn't need the calories recommended.

I was surprised too. It was interesting just being there and hearing them say that.

 

[Resurgam]

I'd advise anyone who can spare the time to go on whatever course they are offered - just be prepared to argue your case if you are given poor advice - and don't be quietened by 'we'll talk about this later' - because the probability is that they will simply end the session at the end of what they have to say. I don't advocate being rude but don't be intimidated by a uniform and glossy leaflets if what they are advising is 'healthy' carbs.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

The DESMOND course is designed for those without much knowledge of diabetes and that is part of the reason for critism from people on here who have done their own research. On the course I attended hardly anyone knew the difference between Type 1 and Type 2 or knew what Hba1c meant. My course consisted of two afternoons, the first from a DN explaining diabetes, the second was from a dietitian about diet. Even the diet part contained lots of useful information, food labelling for example. The idea that the whole course is about the Eatwell Guide is not true. It was mentioned but that was perhaps 5% of the course. Also I suspect although they recommend carbs, the type and portions were a drastic improvement for some of those on the course. If you attend a course where you are not the typical recipient, it is not really fair to criticise the course.

Good point, well made.

 

[JohnEGreen]

Good point, well made.

Yes that is so doesn't mean I have to agree with it, to teach half truths because it is more palatable to your audience and compliant with a misinformed and wrongly based orthodoxy is not actually educating any one as to the reality of diabetes and there for misleading at best.

 

[Resurgam]

Telling type twos that a baked potato and baked beans are a good choice for lunch - and that type ones would not need to inject any insulin for it - because it is such a good choice - and I let myself be kept quiet.
I am almost sure I saw one of the people who was on the same course I did in early 2017, at the supermarket a few weeks ago - he'd got one foot in a sort of rubber boot all bandaged up and the other foot wasn't there are all. It still bothers me that I accepted that we would talk about low carb later, and it never happened -

 

[JohnEGreen]

When in hospital a couple of years ago I was on a ward where all of us were diabetic I was in for something unrelated to diabetes every other one of the patients were receiving antibiotic treatment for diabetic ulcers and infections of their legs and feet, every one of them followed the eat well plate every one of them had attended courses and every one of them had very high blood sugars one of them was being treated with maggots in an attempt to save his leg.

One of guys I bumped into a few months later in town and it seems he was minus one of his big toes when he eventually left the hospital.

I did not attend a course even though was asked to on several occasions I did not follow the eat well plate diet was low carb and had the lowest blood sugars on the ward and that included the nurse that checked our levels in the morning as she kept telling me.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

Yes that is so doesn't mean I have to agree with it

When I was diagnosed in 1997, the consultant I saw told me absolutely nothing about diabetes and my GP told me even less, except that I had to keep eating carbs. The worst advice I have ever received and maybe I should consider legal action and drain the NHS of much needed funds.

I was never offered any course and it's possible that something like a DESMOND course would have been very useful, except for their advice regarding carbs. If that only represented about 5% of the whole course . . . . . maybe overall, not so bad. I don't know the whole content and will never be offered the opportunity to find out, so I'll never know.

One of guys I bumped into a few months later in town and it seems he was minus one of his big toes when he eventually left the hospital.

Something that happened to my father. Something I can't get my head round is that despite me showing him the distinct and very obvious advantages of low carb for a type II, he just went on regardless. He was insulin dependent type II and thought Muesli, toast and honey was a healthy breakfast.