Help me understand

[Reg1961]

Hello all,
I was diagnosed with D2 around 6 months ago. A routine blood test confirmed this. I was so tired, drinking like a fish, muscle loss, living in the toilet day and night. All the signs were there apparently my levels were dangerously high and my doctor called me in straight away. My readings have gone down a lot but still not sure if they could be better.
I am taking 4 tablets a day and feeling much better but not great.

I have been reading up on things that will help and have changed my diet considerably. This with the medication has helped but I think my levels may still be high.

I am not sure what they should be or if they should be better than they are.

I have been testing my levels and the flowing is an average.

160mg/dl in the morning before food
2 hours after food (evening) any thing from 220 to 320mg/dl

I am still having periods of complete exhaustion. I am so new to this I am not sure about the readings.


If any one can give me with any advice/tips I would be very grateful.


With thanks,

Reg

 

[bulkbiker]

Hi Reg and welcome.

No sure what your medications all are but they obviously haven't got you quite "fixed" yet.

Have a read of the intro piece to how a lot of us have put our T2 into remission and no longer take any medication.

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/basic-information-for-newly-diagnosed-diabetics.26870/

A lot of us here are UK based so the blood glucose figures you will see quoted are in mmol/l whereas yours are in mg/dl.
To convert simply divide your figures by 18 so your 160 mg/dl becmes 8.88 mmol/l.

Which ever units you use your figures are a bit high. Ideally you'd want to aim to be around 90 mg/dl before food and no moe than 126 2 hours after.

These figures may appear completely unattainable where you are now but a lot of us have been there and have done it.

Put simply its all about cutting carbohydrate consumption to a minimum.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi @Reg1961

I completely agree with what Bulkbiker says.

Are your tablets 4 x Metformin a day (may have another brand name) or are you on 4 different tablets? If so, it would really help if you could name them.

As for your levels, as a type 2 diabetic, cutting carbs is the biggest tool you have to combat high blood glucose.
The link that Bulkbiker posted gives you an excellent introduction into what they are, what foods to avoid, and how to get control of those pesky readings.

 

[Reg1961]

Hello,
Thank you so much for all the information.
I was diagnosed in France,I will convert to mmol ,seems a little easier to understand.

I have to be honest I have completely kicked sugar but the carbs not so much. If I am being honest I didn’t realise they played such a major part.

I am taking 5 tablets a day. Metformine and Novanorm. I feel like I have started to rattle when I walk.

Cutting carbs as from today. I will let you know how it goes.

Many thanks again

Reg

 

[bulkbiker]

Hello,
Thank you so much for all the information.
I was diagnosed in France,I will convert to mmol ,seems a little easier to understand.

I have to be honest I have completely kicked sugar but the carbs not so much. If I am being honest I didn’t realise they played such a major part.

I am taking 5 tablets a day. Metformine and Novanorm. I feel like I have started to rattle when I walk.

Cutting carbs as from today. I will let you know how it goes.

Many thanks again

Reg

Hang around here and ask any questions that you have.. France was where I gained a pretty huge amount of weight and probably gave myself T2.

Baguettes and pastries combined with cheese were my crack cocaine!

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Hello,
Thank you so much for all the information.
I was diagnosed in France,I will convert to mmol ,seems a little easier to understand.

I have to be honest I have completely kicked sugar but the carbs not so much. If I am being honest I didn’t realise they played such a major part.

I am taking 5 tablets a day. Metformine and Novanorm. I feel like I have started to rattle when I walk.

Cutting carbs as from today. I will let you know how it goes.

Many thanks again

Reg

Hey Reg,

Careful with the NovoNorm!!!! It forces your pancreas to produce more insulin, like Gliclazide would, and if you cut the carbs you can go hypo if you don't adjust the medication. So you might want to discuss that with your doctor first. Also, keep testing. As for not realising the impact of carbs, well... Most of us didn't, when we started out. Heck, our dieticians and doctors often don't even have a clue. Just use your meter, especially with the NovoNorm, because as long as you're taking that you'll have to keep hypo treatment on hand. (Dextro tabs or other sweet candy).

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/the-nutritional-thingy.2330/ This might help you get started. You also might want to read The Diabetes Code by Dr. Jason Fung and dietdoctor.com, besides this forum's website diabetes.co.uk (Not .org!).

Good luck!
Jo

 

[Reg1961]

I am currently taking ,
3 metformine a day
2 Novanorm a day

I have been on this medication from diagnosis

 

[Reg1961]

Thanks Jo,
I will take a trip to my GP and ask about the novonorm.
I feel I have a lot to learn.

Is a hypo because the sugar is high or low on Novonorm

 

[Reg1961]

To All,

Thank you so much for getting back to me so quickly.
I have learnt more from the last few mins than I have in the last 6 months,

Many thanks,

Reg

 

[bulkbiker]

Thanks Jo,
I will take a trip to my GP and ask about the novonorm.
I feel I have a lot to learn.

Is a hypo because the sugar is high or low on Novonorm

The hypo will be because the drugs make your blood sugar go too low.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Thanks Jo,
I will take a trip to my GP and ask about the novonorm.
I feel I have a lot to learn.

Is a hypo because the sugar is high or low on Novonorm

A hypo means your bloodsugars are too low. If there is more insulin than you actually need, your bloodsugars drop like a stone. That can get dangerous. You could become confused, lose motor function, pass out, or even slip into a coma. So if you go for a drive, you're legally required, when on meds like this, to check your bloodsugars before you go, because you could get an accident if you're too low. (Usually it's 5 to drive, so that would be 90 to you.). It doesnt happen with metformin though, so you can safely keep taking that on low carb, but don't mix the NovoNorm with low carb... You'll crash & burn.

 

[Reg1961]

Is there any one who has been on Novonorm that have had problems.
I just feel like I am on a lot of medication and still not feeling great. I have an all time low in the afternoons. A bit dizzy and extreme tiredness that I can’t fight. I just thought this was something I would have to live with.
I am now concerned this could be the novonorm combined with the metformine

 

[Reg1961]

Thanks again,

What I am having trouble understanding is the hypo.
This is when your sugar levels drop,is that right?

I have tested my reading when I feel like this and they never read low. In fact sometimes they are high.

 

[bulkbiker]

Thanks again,

What I am having trouble understanding is the hypo.
This is when your sugar levels drop,is that right?

I have tested my reading when I feel like this and they never read low. In fact sometimes they are high.

A classic hypo would be a blood sugar level below 4 mmol/l or 72 mg/dl
At the moment this probably seems a long way away but cutting carbs can have quite dramatic effects on blood sugars especially when combined with medications that force your pancreas into producing even more insulin (like your novanorm).
Hence our words of caution.
In fact for unmedicated T2 hypos aren't really a problem even if your bloods go sub 4 because the body's natural mechanisms will correct after a while but when taking meds that do it artificially it can be unpleasant and possibly dangerous.
That's why I'd advise trying to get off the novanorm asap.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Is there any one who has been on Novonorm that have had problems.
I just feel like I am on a lot of medication and still not feeling great. I have an all time low in the afternoons. A bit dizzy and extreme tiredness that I can’t fight. I just thought this was something I would have to live with.
I am now concerned this could be the novonorm combined with the metformine

I'm thinking the fatigue is from the high blood sugar levels, especially in the afternoon, (after lunch). You're quite a bit higher than you should be, and I know what high bloodsugars used to do to me. (I could hardly lift a fork, and didn't have enough muscle strength to cut my own meat. I cried with humiliation/frustration into the plates I couldn't manage to eat). So as much as you're taking, it's not having the desired effect on their own. I never was on NovoNorm, but gliclazide, which is basically in the same medicinal family. My Endo didn't even know that could cause hypo's, and told me there was no way I was going hypo as I was "just a T2". My meter and physical reactions begged to differ. As well as the medication's leaflet. I had little to no guidance and things could've gone very badly. So keep asking questions, read leaflets, and test, test, test.

One more thing.... Are you in any gastric distress? As in, living in the loo? Because with Met, and I just read, Novo as well, you could get severe runs. I know the Metformin didn't agree with me and I was extremely tired, dehydrated and at one point, bleeding. It is a well-known side effect and no-one likes to mention it for obvious reasons, but as that can really wear you out as well, I thought I'd bring it up.

This is NOT what your life is doomed to look like. You don't have to settle for feeling like this. I came back from it, so can you.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Thanks again,

What I am having trouble understanding is the hypo.
This is when your sugar levels drop,is that right?

I have tested my reading when I feel like this and they never read low. In fact sometimes they are high.

A low and a high (called a hyper) can feel very similar. Rubbery legs, fatigue, brain-fog, hair standing on end, heart palpatations... So yes, if you feel badly, your numbers could well be high.

The thing is, if you cut carbs, your bloodsugars will naturally go down. And the NovoNorm will still be forcing your pancreas to make insulin, which you don't actually need. And that's when you hypo. You haven't had that happen yet, but if you mix low carb with NovoNorm, you will. Really, the difference a low carb diet can make is next to unbelievable. So if you drastically cut the carbs, you'd be over-medicating. I've had hypo's and they are scary stuff. (Usually I could help myself. Once I couldn't. And it is no picnic laying on the ground with legs that won't work, at an event with 30.000 people, with the Red Cross trying to get water and sweets into you while the lookieloos crowd you. Dropping my poor camera on the pavement and landing on it wasn't fun either. Ow.). None of us want you to go through that. Hence the warnings and the test-your-heart-out.

 

[Reg1961]

Wow,
This is so interesting as well as informative. I think my aim is to come of the Novonorma and reduce my carbs.

I will see if I can come of the novonorm and stay on the metformine as well as reduced carbs.

I will also read all the links you have kindly sent.


Do you think my doctor will take me off the two novonorm tablets or will he reduce them. Not sure if there are side effects coming off this medication.

Unfortunately I am away for 4 weeks so I can’t get to my doctors

 

[Reg1961]

Jo,
Thank you so much for all your words.
Sounds like you had a very scary time.

Hope you are well now and controlling things.

 

[Reg1961]

All good with the toilet situation but thanks for the info. Someth8ng to look out for

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Wow,
This is so interesting as well as informative. I think my aim is to come of the Novonorma and reduce my carbs.

I will see if I can come of the novonorm and stay on the metformine as well as reduced carbs.

I will also read all the links you have kindly sent.


Do you think my doctor will take me off the two novonorm tablets or will he reduce them. Not sure if there are side effects coming off this medication.

Unfortunately I am away for 4 weeks so I can’t get to my doctors

Once you've read up about low carb eating, and how to do it properly, you COULD maybe halve the NovoNorm dosage yourself as you start dropping the carbs. You'd have to test very often to see what the impact is. Truth is, rarely any of us have a doc who'll support the cutting of medication in favour of diet, probably because they don't know any better than patients always needing more, not less, when T2's. My GP helped me more than my endo did, because she knew I tested about 6 times a day and was sure to catch it if anything went awry, and trusted her enough to keep her in the loop. Also, I was intimately familiar with diabetes already, because our cat's on insulin (T3c), so I wasn't an average patient to begin with. Thing is, it's against forum rules to tell people to quit their meds. So I'm not saying to quit your meds.... But a little experimentation, once you know what you're doing with your diet, well... Nuff said.