Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

[KK123]

There are some interesting articles in Guardian about working from home including how for some it is definitely not advantageous. I know when my daughters were young the hour it took me to get home was excellent preparation and down time!
Even though the phrase is over used this is an unprecedented situation, a lot of the "old " rules no longer are useful. So many people are affected in so many ways. Some relish working from home, some are struggling, some dont even get the opportunity. Things will have to change as long as the virus is around. I suppose the key question is how long will that be,which of course no one knows. I have no faith in the government regarding my own situation but even if they were on the ball it must be challenging to say the least.
During lockdown I had hope that the very least to come out of this would be changes to social care. After working for the council and Citizens Advice in Research and Campaigns and caring for my dad full time who had dementia I needed a job that would pay the bills. I didnt want to manage people or organise rotas I wanted to work with people. A 12 hr shift doing hands on care didnt appeal,not that I mind being a care giver but when you are in your late 50s you dont have quite the same physical stamina for non stop hoisting,rolling,etc. I found a job as a support worker,quite a rare role in that no care but spend time talking to residents, 1.1s etc. Bliss. I must stress that my employer is one of the better ones but boy can you see the gap between public and private sector! The residents in the main well cared for and needs met,but it was areas like OT where you had a ridiculous struggle to get a chair raised when a resident was increasingly struggling. Staff rights are non existent. SSP only.Unions not encouraged. A deputy manager who genuinely cant see the problem with pushing a 20 stone resident up a hill in a large difficult to control wheelchair without a lap belt in a heatwave! I had past experience and knowledge to keep myself and residents safe and shared that knowledge with team. Still the system was struggling before the pandemic. My employers ideally would have permenant staff,and have improved the situation but few people are tempted into care when you can earn more just about anywhere else. I havent been at work since mid March because my gut instinct told me that even though they would do their best to follow government guidelines it just wouldnt be safe for me. My gut instinct was right and I shudder to think what would have happened if I had been there. After losing nearly a third of their residents things seemed to be in control. Now the virus is back in the building,staff I leaving who have been there for several years.
We can only act on our own situation. Those of you that are in education they may be planning training days and refusing PPE but it doesn't mean that will be the case when the day arrives,advice changes daily. Financial situations vary greatly. If you dont have to be in that situation dont be. If you do try and buy yourself time. I know I'm incredibly lucky as I can keep the wolf from the door until next Spring. My union recommended I apply for Universal Credit,which I have done. Not sure quite how that is going to work but I've nothing to lose! I'm in No Mans land I am employed but without pay. Currently my GP has signed me off with stress. My employers through incompetence or in the hope of starving me back to work are refusing to pay SSP so I view the certificate as justification as to why I'm not there. GPs vary mine is moderately sympathetic and is calling this Friday and I will find out if she will renew it. One thing is for certain is the stress and anxiety are real,and I'm better placed than most.
Sorry for the long post but I can hear the pain and uncertainty in some posters and feel the need to acknowledge they are not alone. The risk is real but the means of dealing with it havent caught up. I suppose my time at CAB was valuable as well. I remember one caller who was an accountant and in a very well paid job until she became ill. She was on the road to recovery but had been told she was not entitled to benefits(she was) and it had got to the stage she was foraging for firewood and berries. Having no prior knowledge of the system she was stunned that the safety net she was assuming was there had to be fought for. She thought if DWP said no it was final. In reality decisions overturned on appeal.
I think we are at the beginning of this. I've stepped away from the news apart from short bursts but the virus seems to be spiking and economic recovery grim. Changes may be made but they may take a very long time. Meanwhile all you can do is your best not to be collateral damage.

Hi, I really liked your post because it gives a personal opinion and an individual experience. That's the point really, we are all in completely different circumstances, different ages/jobs/priorities/financial and so on. One size does not fit all and it's good to see things from the perspective of others, thank you. x

 

[Max68]

@Max68, and anyone returning to an indoor work place where the wearing of masks and any other relevant protection isn’t supported, there’s this:

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...nd-second-wave-leaders?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

What I find baffling, or maybe not considering the Governments record of making reactive decisions rather than proactive ones, is that they are mandating in shops but not offices or schools. Shops you may be face to face with a potential "carrier" for seconds to a couple of minutes, but in offices and schools you are potentially sitting next to a "carrier" for hours in as I said above an unventilated place. Why the lesser of two evils is the one mandated just does not make sense!

 

[Fairygodmother]

It’s all baffling @Max68.
Hillingdon Hospital was shut down after nurses attending a meeting, I believe it was on 30 June, without masks led to a super spreader event and today we don’t have to wear masks in offices.
I sometimes wonder where the lucky dip hat is that the latest instructions are pulled out of.

 

[JohnEGreen]

It’s all baffling @Max68.
Hillingdon Hospital was shut down after nurses attending a meeting, I believe it was on 30 June, without masks led to a super spreader event and today we don’t have to wear masks in offices.
I sometimes wonder where the lucky dip hat is that the latest instructions are pulled out of.

Dominic Cummings hat.

 

[JRT]

Yes,on reading comment from Matt Hancock it made no sense whatsoever! Basically said yep high risk of infection but as good as shrugged shoulders. I think they are fighting a losing battle and indeed playing a reactive game of "whack a mole". To openly state the risk and admit they havent a solution or the solution would be disastrous for the economy is something they cant or wont do. They blunder on regardless hoping public follow suit

 

[Max68]

Yes,on reading comment from Matt Hancock it made no sense whatsoever! Basically said yep high risk of infection but as good as shrugged shoulders. I think they are fighting a losing battle and indeed playing a reactive game of "whack a mole". To openly state the risk and admit they havent a solution or the solution would be disastrous for the economy is something they cant or wont do. They blunder on regardless hoping public follow suit

It's fairly obvious what they are doing I think. They have been so shambolic in every area of dealing with the pandemic that they know that if they make everything as ambiguous as possible then they "think" they can just blame everyone else rather themselves when it all goes belly up. As long as they don't make something law and just leave it for others to decide they will just hide behind that. They are finished in many ways as next time an Election comes round you could put Kermit the Frog against them and Kermit would win!

This is why so many businesses, schools, offices are struggling to know what to do because they are only following Govt guidelines and 9 times out of 10 those guidelines either are wrong, too late or don't make sense. It takes a brave boss or Headmaster to kick Govt Guidelines into touch and do what "they" think is right!

Very surprised in many ways because considering we have a Prime Minister who became very ill and nearly died you would think that "his" government would be the one erring on the side of safety and caution. I do wonder if Covid has had more of an effect on Boris that is being revealed.

 

[Jbicheno]

What I find baffling, or maybe not considering the Governments record of making reactive decisions rather than proactive ones, is that they are mandating in shops but not offices or schools. Shops you may be face to face with a potential "carrier" for seconds to a couple of minutes, but in offices and schools you are potentially sitting next to a "carrier" for hours in as I said above an unventilated place. Why the lesser of two evils is the one mandated just does not make sense!

I also work in a school. I am due to return in September and do my normal hours (mornings) working in a year 6 class with 30 children and one other adult. I support children with learning difficulties so am in close contact with them while I am at work. No PPE is advised by the local authority and the government unless dealing with a sick child. I wrote to my MP and his advice was that I am at no more risk of catching Covid19 than anybody else (which is true) but he completely ignored my risk and stated most diabetics get a mild infection. I am 59 and will be 60 in a few months which is also a risk factor. I will be asking my head if I can wear a face shield but I think this should be the government’s advice for vulnerable people working in crowded indoor situations. I agree the conflicting advice doesn’t make sense.

 

[Tannith]

Ohhh I know, we as a staff and union members are all fighting for it to be made a personal choice to wear PPE or not.
A mountain has been made out of a mole hill. I will not be giving up and will fight for this basic human right.

Have you thought about writing to your MP? Preferably jointly. You should be able to wear a mask whether or not you are at any extra risk.

 

[HSSS]

Schools, particularly secondary, strike me as potentially the biggest **** up in the making come September for vulnerable kids, staff and family members

No social distancing required at all despite the rest of society being told to maintain 2 meters where possible or 1m if not.
No face coverings, despite being indoors, little ventilation in winter, in cramped classrooms
No small regular groups in secondary schools as would be the case in many jobs and most office work (exempted by Matt Hancock today) Teens mixing with maybe 350 others in their year group plus siblings in other years etc Teachers moving across year groups

And what’s amazing me more is no one in the press is talking about this

 

[JRT]

It is almost unbelievable isnt it? Rarely for me I had national and local news on this morning. The local news ran an item on how things were at the beginning of lockdown and how things are now things "are returning to normal". One thing that really stuck in my mind was when social distancing was reduced. To the governments credit they had actually said only reduced with certain specifications. Immediately afterwards the BBC newsreader announced social distancing was being reduced but no mention was made whatsoever of under what conditions. The general consensus is book a holiday, go down the pub,enjoy summer. Alongside this is a parallel stream of information about local outbreaks, long term health issues etc. Is there any wonder peoples mental health is suffering? In some ways it reminds me of when Trump was elected,whatever outrageous statement he made or morally reprehensible act he seemed untouchable. The current government have been repeatedly found to be deceptive and incompetent and their handling of the crisis criminal. But,there seems no consistent and loud challenges to them. Voices of reason are there but it sometimes feels as though they are being stampeded over in the rush for 50% off a meal deal!
Despite of this there may be hope. I cant remember who said it but apparently there are few things that change society but war and pandemic are two. The majority of the resources we need to control this pandemic,NHS,Social Care,Education were hanging on by a thread before the pandemic. Theres no magic wand to make more teachers, extra nurses, carers appear. I may be a pessimist but there are only two options. The virus disappears overnight or a vaccine is found before winter. If not things may need to fall apart before they get better. The government show no signs of handling another major outbreak any differently from in March. Instead they repeat the same ineffectual slogans and are passing the buck to local authorities and ultimately individuals. I would be surprised if there is a mass return to school in September,a lot can happen before then and groups such as this forum are beginning to talk with each other and with unions and their health care providers,and hopefully with greater assertiveness.

 

[Max68]

It is almost unbelievable isnt it? Rarely for me I had national and local news on this morning. The local news ran an item on how things were at the beginning of lockdown and how things are now things "are returning to normal". One thing that really stuck in my mind was when social distancing was reduced. To the governments credit they had actually said only reduced with certain specifications. Immediately afterwards the BBC newsreader announced social distancing was being reduced but no mention was made whatsoever of under what conditions. The general consensus is book a holiday, go down the pub,enjoy summer. Alongside this is a parallel stream of information about local outbreaks, long term health issues etc. Is there any wonder peoples mental health is suffering? In some ways it reminds me of when Trump was elected,whatever outrageous statement he made or morally reprehensible act he seemed untouchable. The current government have been repeatedly found to be deceptive and incompetent and their handling of the crisis criminal. But,there seems no consistent and loud challenges to them. Voices of reason are there but it sometimes feels as though they are being stampeded over in the rush for 50% off a meal deal!
Despite of this there may be hope. I cant remember who said it but apparently there are few things that change society but war and pandemic are two. The majority of the resources we need to control this pandemic,NHS,Social Care,Education were hanging on by a thread before the pandemic. Theres no magic wand to make more teachers, extra nurses, carers appear. I may be a pessimist but there are only two options. The virus disappears overnight or a vaccine is found before winter. If not things may need to fall apart before they get better. The government show no signs of handling another major outbreak any differently from in March. Instead they repeat the same ineffectual slogans and are passing the buck to local authorities and ultimately individuals. I would be surprised if there is a mass return to school in September,a lot can happen before then and groups such as this forum are beginning to talk with each other and with unions and their health care providers,and hopefully with greater assertiveness.

What every area in life needs is strong consistent leadership, from Government to Military to Sports through to Business, no matter how good your team is if you are not on the ball as a leader everything suffers below you. I'd compare the Government to a Football Team on the wane right now,. Back in January they had a good management team with a strong strong squad with a focused philosophy, reasonable tactics that had them challenging towards the top of the table. Then the crisis hit. They had to change tactics and place their injured players in protection but still try and maintain their philosophy so they would still be able to maintain their challenge at a later date. However since the restart they are desperate to get the crowds back so they have changed their philosophy, keep changing their tactics which only confuses the players, have dragged their injured players back even though as clinically vulnerable they are not fit to play and they are risking longer term injury and the management team keep arguing amongst themselves because they all have different ideas on whether 442, 451, 433 or 4231 should be used to defeat the opposition. The team is on the slide down the table and now the management are just making it up as they go along terrified that the Club is going into administration so they are taking bigger risks however 100% forgetting that if they get relegated it's much harder to climb back up next season as their injured players will be out for far longer and confidence in the management has gone!

Bad analogy I know but that's how it's gone.

 

[KK123]

Schools, particularly secondary, strike me as potentially the biggest **** up in the making come September for vulnerable kids, staff and family members

No social distancing required at all despite the rest of society being told to maintain 2 meters where possible or 1m if not.
No face coverings, despite being indoors, little ventilation in winter, in cramped classrooms
No small regular groups in secondary schools as would be the case in many jobs and most office work (exempted by Matt Hancock today) Teens mixing with maybe 350 others in their year group plus siblings in other years etc Teachers moving across year groups

And what’s amazing me more is no one in the press is talking about this

I fully agree and it's all because they know half the population cannot get back to work if they've got kids to look after. So in my opinion they are ignoring any associated risks when it comes to schools or pretending there aren't any, because then they would have to keep the kids off for longer and half of us wouldn't be able to go back into the office. It's a sacrifice if you like. x

 

[JRT]

Max68 that sums it up perfectly, even for a football novice. I think it will be interesting to see how tomorrows order to return to the office goes. At least they admit it's to benefit the economy. As usual it's quite contradictory and all about not travelling in peak times etc. This morning I couldnt help but think of the 1980s, protesting against a ruthless Tory government, a new virus and high unemployment and economic gloom( unless a banker/already rich). Oh and constant threat of nuclear annihilation! Ah the good old days!

 

[bulkbiker]

Schools, particularly secondary, strike me as potentially the biggest **** up in the making come September for vulnerable kids, staff and family members

No social distancing required at all despite the rest of society being told to maintain 2 meters where possible or 1m if not.
No face coverings, despite being indoors, little ventilation in winter, in cramped classrooms
No small regular groups in secondary schools as would be the case in many jobs and most office work (exempted by Matt Hancock today) Teens mixing with maybe 350 others in their year group plus siblings in other years etc Teachers moving across year groups

And what’s amazing me more is no one in the press is talking about this

Might be because of the 2,086 0-19 yo deaths so far this year COVID has been "involved" in 15.
At least according to the ONS most recently released data. All incredibly sad of course.

 

[Jbicheno]

I fully agree and it's all because they know half the population cannot get back to work if they've got kids to look after. So in my opinion they are ignoring any associated risks when it comes to schools or pretending there aren't any, because then they would have to keep the kids off for longer and half of us wouldn't be able to go back into the office. It's a sacrifice if you like. x

I totally agree. Just because things haven’t gone bad in school since lockdown, with small numbers of children well spaced out,doesn’t mean they are going to be safe in September. I’m really concerned and even afraid of what is going to happen in a crowded environment with no PPE. I can only hope the government and local governments see sense and realise the risk they are creating. I did write to my MP but he was as much help as a chocolate teapot and brushed off my concerns completely.

 

[Max68]

I fully agree and it's all because they know half the population cannot get back to work if they've got kids to look after. So in my opinion they are ignoring any associated risks when it comes to schools or pretending there aren't any, because then they would have to keep the kids off for longer and half of us wouldn't be able to go back into the office. It's a sacrifice if you like. x

The irony is there are plenty of clinically vulnerable staff (like myself) and there will also be clinically vulnerable children and yet the Government are going to fine parents who don't send their children back which is baffling. There would be enough vulnerable staff to cover continuing online lessons for the vulnerable children or children of parents who don't want to send their children back. Those that "don't want to" it's a choice where obviously they would decide themselves about their own return to work. This would kill two birds with one stone. Staff continue their jobs as online workers because there is that option still available and that means they are also in a safer environment at home and parents who are concerned or whose children are vulnerable thus don't get fined. Even if your own school didn't have a work from home option other schools would have and would be looking for online staff. With a bit of foresight, decent communication and planning months ago they could have organised this through councils and employers. As an LSA I just "sit in" on zoom lessons as support making notes of behaviour etc and you could easily do that for any school. The Government has totally changed tack though, one minute they are insisting that ALL clinically vulnerable were either to shield or to work from home. Now it's a case of off you go back to work but nothing has changed with regard to the virus. If they are desperate to stop a second wave at hospitals why are they telling the clinically vulnerable to go back to the physical workplace?!

 

[JRT]

Exactly ,it makes no logical sense whatsoever. There are ways it could be done safely with planning. They just cant be bothered/ dont care. Its terrifying how not only ordering vulnerable/ shielding back to work whilst removing as much support as can. Sadly I think that this virus is generally viewed as affecting a small group who arguably people dont value any way,certainly not the government. I wouldnt wish this virus on anyone but I do wonder if how different the scenario would be if it only killed under 60s with no underlying conditions.

 

[SaskiaKC]

The irony is there are plenty of clinically vulnerable staff (like myself) and there will also be clinically vulnerable children and yet the Government are going to fine parents who don't send their children back which is baffling.

That makes about as much sense as something that happened here in the US when Obama was president. He passed a law requiring that everyone get health coverage, and if you didn't get it through your work then you had to buy it for yourself, and if you didn't make enough money to do that then you had to pay a fine. Unless of course you didn't make enough money to pay the fine.

 

[Max68]

That makes about as much sense as something that happened here in the US when Obama was president. He passed a law requiring that everyone get health coverage, and if you didn't get it through your work then you had to buy it for yourself, and if you didn't make enough money to do that then you had to pay a fine. Unless of course you didn't make enough money to pay the fine.

And there are those who thought Obama was the bees knees!!! Doesn't make sense does it. They want to stop the NHS from being overloaded but are sending hundreds of thousands of who they say are clinically vulnerable people back into the firing line hence possibly overloading the NHS! Is that not a prime example of an Oxymoron>?!

 

[JRT]

Well my anxiety hit roof again! Just received email from work with an attached risk assessment for me to complete ASAP. I come out as low risk.i have passed it on to Union and waiting to hear back. Meanwhile although I know I cant be forced into anything I am really starting to doubt my own sanity sometimes