cholesterol.

Ryhia

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,124
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,576
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Serum Triglycerides 0.9
Serum HDL 1.9

If you think (as I and many experts do, although I'm no expert I freely admit ) that a major indicator of heart problems ahead is the Trig/HDL ratio then yours is near perfect. Anything sub 0.87 is deemed excellent and yours is 0.474 .

LDL is a calculated number and can often be misrepresented when following a low carb diet as the calculations can be way off.

You could, if your GP is very concerned, ask for a coronary artery calcium scan to look at actual plaque build up in your arteries. Whilst it is unlikely that you will get this on the NHS it is always a possibility so definitely worth asking for.

I'd seriously suggest doing a lot of reading around the subject before taking any drugs that interfere with some of the most basic functions of our brains which are made partly of cholesterol. Others may disagree but so far I have yet to see them produce much evidence...

As always it's up to you what you put in your body.
 

Ryhia

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,124
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
@Debandez, there are reasons people are legitimately prescribed statins. To dismiss them outright could cause difficulties for some people. I would agree that mass prescribing for anyone with raised cholesterol and / or T2 is not the best practice, (in my opinion).
I would add that anyone who has been checked and found to have familial hypercholesterolaemia, which is a genetic trait, should not be discouraged from taking medication prescribed to lower cholesterol. This is important to mention, as I would not like anyone to feel intimidated into stopping or refusing thesemeds if they do have the condition.
I have this condition. Been on prescribed statins since I was diagnosed T2 15 years ago. Now in my mid 60s. All previous paternal generations in my family have had cardiac incidents, some fatal, from their 40s. I have not. I don’t like taking meds. I would like a heart attack much less.

Sorry mods for derail, I don’t think anyone was meant to be discussing statins, but thought it vital to make the distinction re familial hypercholesterolaemia.
https://www.bhf.org.uk/informations...gazine/medical/familial-hypercholesterolaemia
Thank you for sharing your family history, I listened to a presentation yesterday and the guy said that the only reason he would prescribe statins was in the case of familial hypercholesterolemia. I understand that trigs usually rise with this. I am looking into this subject and want to ask the doc if he will request a LDL particle test or a CAC scan, I am not holding my breath though.
 

SaskiaKC

Expert
Messages
6,308
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
LDL is a calculated number and can often be misrepresented when following a low carb diet as the calculations can be way off.

So, from posts I read on this board, can BG meter readings, therefore, BG numbers.

@Ryhia, I'm glad you and your medical team are watching your cholesterol numbers. I was having mine checked every 3 months before covid and am still trying to keep my fats down, especially animal fats.
 

Ryhia

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,124
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only

Ryhia

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,124
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
If you think (as I and many experts do, although I'm no expert I freely admit ) that a major indicator of heart problems ahead is the Trig/HDL ratio then yours is near perfect. Anything sub 0.87 is deemed excellent and yours is 0.474 .

LDL is a calculated number and can often be misrepresented when following a low carb diet as the calculations can be way off.

You could, if your GP is very concerned, ask for a coronary artery calcium scan to look at actual plaque build up in your arteries. Whilst it is unlikely that you will get this on the NHS it is always a possibility so definitely worth asking for.

I'd seriously suggest doing a lot of reading around the subject before taking any drugs that interfere with some of the most basic functions of our brains which are made partly of cholesterol. Others may disagree but so far I have yet to see them produce much evidence...

As always it's up to you what you put in your body.
Been checking prices for CAC scans and may pursue that route as an option but I intend to ask doc about tests. Doing as much re-reading as I can before my appointment on Tuesday.
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,576
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Been checking prices for CAC scans and may pursue that route as an option but I intend to ask doc about tests. Doing as much re-reading as I can before my appointment on Tuesday.
I had my first and only one done at Rivers Hospital in Hertfordshire. At the time it was £225 but think they are now somewhere close to £450? So far as I know still the cheapest in the UK.. if you find a better priced one please let me know as I'm due another.
 

Pipp

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
10,622
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Sorry to hear that Pipp.

i absolutely agree. I wasn't dismissing them, I know they do have their place. I was just sharing my experience which is similar to many. They seem to dish them out like smarties. I was offered at the beginning of my journey along with metformin as a matter of course, it seems the 2 go hand in hand. No dietary advice to control blood sugars apart from cut down on sugar, biscuits, cakes. :-( I was borderline for BP meds too. Almost 3 years down the line no meds. Long may that last. But i don't have the issues in your family so feel very lucky in that respect.
Thanks @Debandez. To be clear, I am in agreement that statins are frequently offered to anyone and everyone of a certain age, especially if they also have T2, and / or other conditions, without considering the adverse or effects, or even if they will be of any benefit at all.
The reason I responded to your post is that I don’t think many people are aware of familial hypercholesterolaemia, and that condition would make some perhaps need to reconsider whether the negative effects are a worthy risk for them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Debandez

Debandez

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,019
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Thanks @Debandez. To be clear, I am in agreement that statins are frequently offered to anyone and everyone of a certain age, especially if they also have T2, and / or other conditions, without considering the adverse or effects, or even if they will be of any benefit at all.
The reason I responded to your post is that I don’t think many people are aware of familial hypercholesterolaemia, and that condition would make some perhaps need to reconsider whether the negative effects are a worthy risk for them.
I should have clarified but didn't think so thank you for bringing it to my attention. I will know for next time :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pipp

JenniferM55

Well-Known Member
Messages
611
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
I try to keep an open mind, and listen to all those who know far more then I could dream of. But I don't believe the science that LDL is a bad cholesterol is settled. Dr Nadir Ali explains very well:

 

KK123

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,967
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Familial hypercholesterolemia (I can see why they call it FH) is interesting to me. My cholesterol was deemed high, (HDL 2.4, trigs 0.5, LDL 4.5, total around 8). I was referred to a Lipidologist who arranged a barrage of tests. Basically I did not have FH but 12 other specific tests (DNA) confirmed that I did have indicators that meant my LDL was naturally higher than the so called norm. I can't remember the exact tests although I have an interesting letter detailing the breakdown of it all and coming up with the conlcusion that genetically my cholesterol was NEVER going to be anywhere near the magic number of 4. The Consultant said forget about trying to use diet to change the numbers (negligible) but then said 'you should go on statins'. I queried why as my body seemed to be coping with it and he said 'in case' basically. I do not take statins, I have no other high risk markers for heart issues other than diabetes and I take every measure to prevent those issues. I refuse to take a strong drug on a just in case basis. I asked for a CAC scan to see if my arteries were blocked and he said 'You don't need one, you're obviously fit'. So WHY take statins then? x
 

Pipp

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
10,622
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Thank you for the link it is most useful. I stopped losing weight around Christmas so I expected my cholesterol to have stabilised by now. I have put on a couple of kilos during lockdown so don't know if that might have impacted on things. Think the next stage might be buy another test and try Dave Feldman's regime for fixing the results. Don' want to take statins but my brother had a heart attack a few weeks ago so I do have to look at this as a possibility. Did your bloods go up by taking statins and did you have any side effects?

Hi @Ryhia .
It is hardly surprising that some people have gained weight during lockdown, with disruption to normal life. I started to, then I put brakes on by reducing portion size, and some fasting, too.
Dave Feldman does give excellent advice and info. I think with any info we each need to apply advice to our own, individual, circumstances. It can be difficult to come to decisions when there is so much conflicting info. It appears that GPs seem to just treat statins as a ‘miracle cure all’. My own decision to accept statins was based on knowledge at the time. In addition to the family history, I also had hypertension (since my first pregnancy in my mid twenties, when I also had pre-eclampsia), and was morbidly obese in addition to the diabetes diagnosis, I had seen close relatives develop heart problems and some had early onset dementia.
I was prescribed Metformin at the same time as the statins, (originally Atorvastatin) and I don’t have my data to hand from the start of that , but cannot remember any great increase in BG levels. If I find my records I will give that info. I did have some joint pains, but that could also be due to arthritis I have had since my teens (yes, I inhertited all the dodgy genes) and the excess weight I was carrying. The dosage of Atorvastatin was reduced, and Ezitembe added. I don’t have any discernable problems with these, and have not had any adverse cardiac events. As I am now getting on (mid 60s) and female, I am reviewing all medications, as polyphamacy in old age is, I believe, often the cause of more problems than it solves. Unfortunately, my GPseems to have gone into hibernation, and there have been no opportunities to discuss anything, unless I want to do it by phone. As I also have hearing loss (see what I mean about bad genes) this is not really a viable option. I don’t see this as a disadvantage, as I feel the GP advice is generally toeing the NHS line. I am considering private blood tests at local pharmacy. If I were just starting the journey, I would definitely consider the CAC scan, too.
I am sorry that you have the worry about your brother. In making decisions I did consider my siblings’ health conditions, too. I would read as much as possible before making any decision, bearing in mind that some are biased, and influenced by agendas and big pharma and food producers. Alas, even my earlier references to topics on familial hypercholesterolaemia have advice on diet that follows the low fat ‘good carbs’ mantra.
Best of luck.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Ryhia

Pipp

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
10,622
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Thank you for moving this, I didn't intend that the original thread be derailed but so appreciative of all those who responded with encouragement and various links.
Thank you for moving this, I didn't intend that the original thread be derailed but so appreciative of all those who responded with encouragement and various links.
ooops, I thought it was me that had done the derailing. Guilty as charged.:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ryhia

Pipp

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
10,622
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I'm glad you posted this, pipp. Too many people on this board get very argumentative when anyone else tries to post alerts about the risks of LCHF without having cholesterol levels checked.


There. That's me on this topic. I am a lot more concerned about high cholesterol than highs and lows of FBG. A heart attack can kill quickly and with little warning. Diabetes is more a chronic condition than a sneak attack.

Sorry for late reply, @Saskia
I would not like anyone to think I am against LCHF, sorry my post caused misunderstanding. I have found the Low carb and enough fat way of eating to be beneficial. I do, however, gain weight if I consume too much butter, cream, etc. I believe , for me, it is the excess weight that causes problems with increased insulin resistance, and raising blood glucose levels. Indeed I am more concerned about this than the high cholesterol, as I have seen in people I care about the damage to blood vessels due to high BG that have contributed to circulation problems, resulting in heart attacks, neuropathy, strokes, leg ulcers and dementia.

I envy those members who have been able to do well with higher levels of fat in diet, whether that be from animal or vegetable fats. I have found my own optimum levels, though.

My mention of cholesterol levels was to merely alert people to the condition familial hypercholesterolaemia, which is not the same as just having what doctors perceive to be ‘high cholesterol’.
Hope I haven’t caused further confusion. :)
 

Ryhia

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,124
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Familial hypercholesterolemia (I can see why they call it FH) is interesting to me. My cholesterol was deemed high, (HDL 2.4, trigs 0.5, LDL 4.5, total around 8). I was referred to a Lipidologist who arranged a barrage of tests. Basically I did not have FH but 12 other specific tests (DNA) confirmed that I did have indicators that meant my LDL was naturally higher than the so called norm. I can't remember the exact tests although I have an interesting letter detailing the breakdown of it all and coming up with the conlcusion that genetically my cholesterol was NEVER going to be anywhere near the magic number of 4. The Consultant said forget about trying to use diet to change the numbers (negligible) but then said 'you should go on statins'. I queried why as my body seemed to be coping with it and he said 'in case' basically. I do not take statins, I have no other high risk markers for heart issues other than diabetes and I take every measure to prevent those issues. I refuse to take a strong drug on a just in case basis. I asked for a CAC scan to see if my arteries were blocked and he said 'You don't need one, you're obviously fit'. So WHY take statins then? x

Thank you for sharing your experience. I had a phone call with my doctor this morning, he is very long suffering, bless him. We discussed a lot of things and he said he is planning to refer me to a lipidologist. We have also set up a face to face meeting on Friday.
 

NicoleC1971

BANNED
Messages
3,451
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
https://ihda.ie/cac-scan-centers/

This charity lists places in the UK and Ireland where you can get your arteries scanned in order to predict your actual risk of an event regardless of your ldl level or other risk factors.
The films on the site are quite informative too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ryhia

Ryhia

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,124
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi @Ryhia .
It is hardly surprising that some people have gained weight during lockdown, with disruption to normal life. I started to, then I put brakes on by reducing portion size, and some fasting, too.
Dave Feldman does give excellent advice and info. I think with any info we each need to apply advice to our own, individual, circumstances. It can be difficult to come to decisions when there is so much conflicting info. It appears that GPs seem to just treat statins as a ‘miracle cure all’. My own decision to accept statins was based on knowledge at the time. In addition to the family history, I also had hypertension (since my first pregnancy in my mid twenties, when I also had pre-eclampsia), and was morbidly obese in addition to the diabetes diagnosis, I had seen close relatives develop heart problems and some had early onset dementia.
I was prescribed Metformin at the same time as the statins, (originally Atorvastatin) and I don’t have my data to hand from the start of that , but cannot remember any great increase in BG levels. If I find my records I will give that info. I did have some joint pains, but that could also be due to arthritis I have had since my teens (yes, I inhertited all the dodgy genes) and the excess weight I was carrying. The dosage of Atorvastatin was reduced, and Ezitembe added. I don’t have any discernable problems with these, and have not had any adverse cardiac events. As I am now getting on (mid 60s) and female, I am reviewing all medications, as polyphamacy in old age is, I believe, often the cause of more problems than it solves. Unfortunately, my GPseems to have gone into hibernation, and there have been no opportunities to discuss anything, unless I want to do it by phone. As I also have hearing loss (see what I mean about bad genes) this is not really a viable option. I don’t see this as a disadvantage, as I feel the GP advice is generally toeing the NHS line. I am considering private blood tests at local pharmacy. If I were just starting the journey, I would definitely consider the CAC scan, too.
I am sorry that you have the worry about your brother. In making decisions I did consider my siblings’ health conditions, too. I would read as much as possible before making any decision, bearing in mind that some are biased, and influenced by agendas and big pharma and food producers. Alas, even my earlier references to topics on familial hypercholesterolaemia have advice on diet that follows the low fat ‘good carbs’ mantra.
Best of luck.
Spoke to my GP this morning. He definitely thinks I have too many markers that are indicators of heart problems in the future. Long term high cholesterol and a family history of heart problems. As well as my brother, my sister had a heart attack a few years ago and my father died of heart disease. He basically said that I would not be able to bring my cholesterol levels down through diet alone. He actually thinks that whatever I am doing is causing me harm, cholesterol levels have risen by over 50%. He already knew that I didn't want to take statins so was asking me why and he did listen to my reasoning although I am not sure he was convinced. He asked me to consider taking a low dose of statin (when my levels would indicate a high one) to see how I go he said he would not be doing his duty (of care) if he did not recommend them given my circumstances. He also mentioned he would like to refer me to see a lipidologist. We have arranged a face to face meeting on Friday to discuss things but has not tried to coerce me at all to take statins.

Just feeling a little bit fed up now, before I knew I had diabetes, I believed I was healthy, , no symptoms at all plodding along nicely then I was diagnosed with diabetes. Didn't have any symptoms of that either except maybe blurring vision which I took to be my eye prescription needing changing. Since being diagnosed and trying to sort the diabetes with diet, I have run into all sorts of issues, which seem to be of my own making. Firstly I tried my version of the Newcastle diet but I was also exercising so I ended up going into starvation mode with my BP going through the roof (fortunately short lived) and an ectopic heartbeat. Then I switched to low carb and my cholesterol has soared to horrible levels which I am very uncomfortable with. I now have to work out what I can and cannot eat. Interestingly I have dropped most of the fat in my diet apart from nuts, in the last few days and have lost 1 kilo in weight and my bloods have been better than they ever have so maybe I was eating too much fat.

I am still considering a CAC scan. I cannot see the NHS paying for this but I am willing to if the doc thinks it will bring me benefits. I will discuss this on Friday hopefully.

Well it look as if I too may have rubbish genes, diabetes from my mothers side, although no sign of the arthritic joints that crippled her and that at least one of my siblings suffers from, but I do have spondylosis (fathers side) which I have had for over 20 years. Oh I forgot, I too have hearing problems which the report said was either industrial deafness or genetic. Thankfully it didn't say it was because of my age. But as I have just had 67th birthday I am certainly getting there and its not fun
 

Ryhia

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,124
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
https://ihda.ie/cac-scan-centers/

This charity lists places in the UK and Ireland where you can get your arteries scanned in order to predict your actual risk of an event regardless of your ldl level or other risk factors.
The films on the site are quite informative too.
Oh thank you for that I will have a look. Sorry for the cross posting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NicoleC1971

Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I asked for a CAC scan to see if my arteries were blocked and he said 'You don't need one, you're obviously fit'. So WHY take statins then? x

Mr B and I paid for CAC scans a couple of years ago.
V interesting experience.

While we were there, the consultant who gave the results (mine was zero, despite being a carni sat fatter with obesity, pcos, hormone dysregulation and obesity) chatted about how apparently unpredictable the results can be (thats cos you are surprised I was a zero, isn't it?). She mentioned that a colleague, male, slim, fit, tanned, etc. etc. had a horrifyingly high score - to everyone's surprise. Poor man. I expect he is now on condemned to a high whole grain, low fat, statin diet, plus exhaustive exercise.

I really don't think consultants should be judging people's heart attack risk based on weight, appearance and activity, do you?
Had hoped we had moved beyond that by now...
 
Last edited: