Rapilose for home 75g OGTT

[Ronancastled]

I previously documented my experiences using cerals & sweets to simulate a 75g OGTT
https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/th...f-rapilose-for-home-ogtt.175741/#post-2324679
It had been pointed out to me that the real glucose solution contains no fructose component, nor protein or fat that could interfere with the result so the only true way of conducting this experiment is to use the official solution.
So look what arrived over the weekend



So first of all I took my fasting, allgood there



So, at 9.59am it was down the hatch time
It tastes like a cheap orange sugery drink, reminds you of childhood
Don't know how it would take you 5 min to drink, mine was gone in 30 sec



So the 30 min test & kaboom, this is different gravy to 75gs of carbs from normal food
I hadn't seen a figure like this in 6 months



Sweaty palms as I waited for my 60 min test
Not being able to move around is a real hinderence yet a requirement for the test
I was happy the brakes appeared at the one hour mark



Now I'm in no mans land wondering if I'm going to flat line at 10 properly come down once my 2nd phase kicks in
Needless to say I was happy with this


Happy at this point to be sure of coming in well under the diagnostic points of 11.1 & 7.8 I was free wheeling to the finish line
I was not expecting to see this reactive hypo



Well, I wasn't having that so retook straight away



I ploughed on as honestly I felt fine, no different to when I was at 10 or 4.1
The next test was important


Encouraging, I put away the biscuits I kept in reserve
Final test to come at the 3 hour mark



So, after that roller coaster I arrive back at where I started
Not sure what to think, I'm dissapointed with the 10 & the hypo but happy with the 4.1 at 3 hours.

I've proven to myself that no amount of naked carbs in real food can replicate the 75g of pure glucose in this solution.
I'll definately repeat the test probably in 6 months to see where I'm going.

Apologies for being self indulgent by posting all of this hear but I'd be delighted with some feedback.
Thanks for reading.

 

[bulkbiker]

Well done.. looks a bit like my own results.. over production of insulin in reaction to the carb load although you went a bit lower than me. I went quite a bit higher too..had you "carbed up" beforehand or was this straight from low carb?




Edit to add mine was with Rapilose too.

 

[Ronancastled]

I went quite a bit higher too..had you "carbed up" beforehand or was this straight from low carb?

Good morning.
I wouldn't say I carbed up cause I've been back eating carbs for the past 6 months.
Nothing crazy but I could put away 100g+ in my evening dinner.
Often have 300g of spagetti with spag bol or meatballs with garlic bread for example.
Meter would normally put me in the mid 5s at 2 hours after that.

The one thing I didn't do was exercise the day before the test.
Normally I'd have a 3km evening walk but I purposely avoided it the night before.

 

[DCUKMod]

These are my own results from 2017 (where did the time go!!?!). I didn't carb up before I did the test. using Lucozade. I had a little more than 75gr glucose - just a couple of gramms, so not material, bearing in mind my test for an experiment, rather than anything else.

I stoppe testing at 150 minutes as I had bounced from the 3.2 (I felt absolutely fine and dandy at 3.20), and was close enough to my stating point for my purposes.

 

[Ronancastled]

I didn't carb up before I did the test. using Lucozade. I had a little more than 75gr glucose - just a couple of gramms, so not material, bearing in mind my test for an experiment, rather than anything else.
View attachment 46068

I see they changed the glucose content in 2017.
So you'd now have to drink 850ml to represent 75g of glucose for a OGTT.
That seems like a lot.

 

[DCUKMod]

I see they changed the glucose content in 2017.
So you'd now have to drink 850ml to represent 75g of glucose for a OGTT.
That seems like a lot.

Yes, at the time I did my home made OGTT, the formulations were changing. Some retailers had the "old" and some the "new", which was a factor in my wonky arithmetic. Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it! I realised the error when the drink was already onboard, so I was not going to abort because I had given myself more than I needed. Had I had too little, I would have had to repeat the test.

It was a vile long drink, but bearing in mind I was fasted, and the first thing I'd usually do on rising, would be to have a mug of tea, it was very do-able.

 

[Ronancastled]

I'd harked on here in the past how Jelly Beans could be used as a direct replacement for the Rapilose Glucose Solution.
Even quoting this study & how manu surgeries in the US use them for the 50g gestational diabetes test.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10561636/

Well that turned out to be a load of waffle.
Note to self, don't believe everything you read on the internet.

 

[HSSS]

I’m curious to know why people do home gtt. Not criticising at all just trying to understand what specifically is gained

I’m assuming knowing you pass or fail the diagnostic criteria (maybe useful if you doubt the hb1ac for any reason) and maybe comparison to another test for improvement or deterioration assessment.

I’ve got an old set of results from maybe 10 yrs pre diagnosis somewhere but 10yrs post what I believe was likely gestational D by today’s standards and the start of recognisable metabolic issues. Maybe I’ll dig them out and do a comparison.

 

[bulkbiker]

I’m curious to know why people do home gtt. Not criticising at all just trying to understand what specifically is gained

I’m assuming knowing you pass or fail the diagnostic criteria (maybe useful if you doubt the hb1ac for any reason) and maybe comparison to another test for improvement or deterioration assessment.

I’ve got an old set of results from maybe 10 yrs pre diagnosis somewhere but 10yrs post what I believe was likely gestational D by today’s standards and the start of recognisable metabolic issues. Maybe I’ll dig them out and do a comparison.

I did mine because I was curious about what would happen and whether I had really put T2 into remission.

I did it without carbing up beforehand because I thought that was a bit silly and would not give representative results.

Edit to add might be time for a re-do I guess.. just waiting for latest HbA1c results from blood test on 01 Dec..

 

[DCUKMod]

I’m curious to know why people do home gtt. Not criticising at all just trying to understand what specifically is gained

I’m assuming knowing you pass or fail the diagnostic criteria (maybe useful if you doubt the hb1ac for any reason) and maybe comparison to another test for improvement or deterioration assessment.

I’ve got an old set of results from maybe 10 yrs pre diagnosis somewhere but 10yrs post what I believe was likely gestational D by today’s standards and the start of recognisable metabolic issues. Maybe I’ll dig them out and do a comparison.

From memory, there was a lot of lively discussion at the time around when eating low carb that's some sort pretendy control or progress, and not a fair fight in comparing with those without diabetes, and I think that picqued interest in several people, and the rest is history.

From my perspective, not having a sweet tooth, the Lucozade was so sickly vile, I really won't be in a rush to do it again.

 

[Ronancastled]

@DCUKMod & @bulkbiker
Where do us 3 stand now then ?
FBG <5.6 ..... Check
HbA1c <42 ...... Check
75g OGTT <7.8@2 Hours ...... Check

So 3 diabetics walk into a doctors surgery with unkown histories.
What grey zone do we exist in now ?

 

[Lamont D]

Hi @Ronancastled
I have a condition called Reactive Hypoglycaemia.
I've been studying your OGTT results and I have to say, that you went hypo and it wasn't high threes or fours, but in the two mmols range, by any standard that is low and a hypoglycaemic episode.
Despite being a home glucose test with adipose, the main thing is the hypoglycaemic episode, the other is how quickly you spiked, you rose sharply because of either insulin resistance or like me a very weak initial insulin response or even both.
The fact that you definitely had an insulin response after the high spikes triggered it.
If I was you, I would let my doctor have a look at the result and ask for another supervised eOGTT.
We have a sub forum on RH, do please read. If you have any questions, please ask.

Keep safe

 

[bulkbiker]

@DCUKMod & @bulkbiker
Where do us 3 stand now then ?
FBG <5.6 ..... Check
HbA1c <42 ...... Check
75g OGTT <7.8@2 Hours ...... Check

So 3 diabetics walk into a doctors surgery with unkown histories.
What grey zone do we exist in now ?

We'd be classed as "normal" non-diabetic or in usual parlance "cured".

 

[Daphne917]

@DCUKMod & @bulkbiker
Where do us 3 stand now then ?
FBG <5.6 ..... Check
HbA1c <42 ...... Check
75g OGTT <7.8@2 Hours ...... Check

So 3 diabetics walk into a doctors surgery with unkown histories.
What grey zone do we exist in now ?

We'd be classed as "normal" non-diabetic or in usual parlance "cured".

A new GP in my practice keeps telling me that I don't have diabetes until I tell him to go back just over 7 years when I was first diagnosed. He was also horrified at the increase in hba1c (48 to 54) caused by Statins so has put 'Statin Intolerant' on my notes as neither he or I want to see this type of increase again.

 

[Ronancastled]

If I was you, I would let my doctor have a look at the result and ask for another supervised eOGTT.
We have a sub forum on RH, do please read. If you have any questions, please ask.

That's the first thing I thought too once I saw the 2.8 & the 3.2.
Thing is I never go that low with "normal" food.
Yes I'd see 4's at the 2 hour mark with a low carb meal & 5's if I eat over 100gs of carbs.
I did however get a 3.0 once when I tested with Jelly Beans.
To go hypo I have to eat pure carbs, no protein, no fat.

The reason I couldn't get a proper OGTT done is cause the surgery don't want people 2 hours + in the building during Covid.

 

[Ronancastled]

We'd be classed as "normal" non-diabetic or in usual parlance "cured".

You can't use that word, be like a thesp saying Macbeth.

I wonder where we'd rate for glucose regulation in a normal population.
With a third of Americans either full blown or pre we'd be ahead of them I'd wager.
Perhaps somewhere in the middle of the pack.
Long may it last.

 

[Lamont D]

I would not dismiss my reasoning on your test result, I may be totally wrong but having a hypoglycaemic episode that low could be dangerous especially if you are unaware of going hypo.
Did you have any symptoms at the time of the reading?
What is normal foods? The basic foods such as we have been brought up on, can be really bad!
If you are carb intolerant, you might still be having something that you are intolerant to.
A simple question, because of my experience, can you fast for longer than four hours? Can you describe what happens?
Lastly, if you can't get a test from your doctor, I would repeat the test with a really high carbs meal. Such as a mixed meal test or just carbs. Always do an extended glucose test, two hours you don't get the full picture.

Stay safe

 

[bulkbiker]

You can't use that word, be like a thesp saying Macbeth.

I wonder where we'd rate for glucose regulation in a normal population.
With a third of Americans either full blown or pre we'd be ahead of them I'd wager.
Perhaps somewhere in the middle of the pack.
Long may it last.

Well according to a chart you posted I think? My HbA1c is well below the average.

 

[DCUKMod]

To be honest, @Ronancastled , it leaves me no differently than the day before I did the test. I was diagnosed in 2013, with an A1c of 73, then 37 4 months later and never as high as 37 since.

My medical records were marked "Diabetes Resolved in November 2014. About the only thing that does is stop the automated assumption that every ache, pain or rash is due to diabetes, and the perpetual offers of statins.

 

[Ronancastled]

I would not dismiss my reasoning on your test result, I may be totally wrong but having a hypoglycaemic episode that low could be dangerous especially if you are unaware of going hypo.

I apologise if I gave the impression I was brushing off your advice.
You are a poster of the highest standard here & one I gain great knowledge from especially in your specialty of Reactive Hypoglycemia.

What is normal foods? The basic foods such as we have been brought up on, can be really bad!
If you are carb intolerant, you might still be having something that you are intolerant to.

I would have yoghurt for breakfast, typically 12g of carbs.
If I'm short for time I might have toast in the office, 30g of carbs.
For lunch I'd have a sandwich most days with the occasional pack of crisps, 30g of carbs (+12g for the crisps).
2 cups of coffee with about 100ml of milk, about 8gs of carbs each.
For all the above I'd be back in the 4s at 2 hours with no exercise.
Dinner is when I tend to let the hair down, potatoes, rice & pasta which now don't seem to spike me are eaten most days.
I could accumulate 100+grams of carbs over dinner but I'd normally follow with a brisk 3km walk so I'd be back in the low 5s at the 2 hour mark.
That's why I was so surprised with the 10 in the OGTT, the highest 1 hour I've seen in months was 7.6 after eating pizza.

A simple question, because of my experience, can you fast for longer than four hours? Can you describe what happens?

I do notice my blood sugar running low post lunch, about an hour before dinner, I often find myself snacking on a piece of fruit, nuts or cheese to tide me over.
Now that you say it I haven't tested my blood at this time as I assume I am at fasting.
I've missed the opportunity this evening as now it's post dinner but will check about 5:30pm tomorrow.

Lastly, if you can't get a test from your doctor, I would repeat the test with a really high carbs meal. Such as a mixed meal test or just carbs. Always do an extended glucose test, two hours you don't get the full picture.

I normally test at 2 hours & occasionally at 1 hour.
I will add a 3 hour & 4 hour follow up post in the coming days