Am I being Reckless?

Itchentofish

Member
Messages
15
Another newly diagnosed T2 just grabbing as much info and advice as I can...

So for years my HbA1C had hovered around low 40's and GP had told me I was pre-diabetic.
Fast forward to beginning of Jan 2021 and these were my stats
51 years of age
6 foot tall
136 KG
BMI 40.7
Sleep apnoea treated with CPAP
4 meds to treat Hypertension controlled at 140/80
4/1/2021 HbA1C 66 - 18/01/2021 HbA1C 62

Burying head in sand hasn't worked out too well for me. Doctor called me after the first blood test of 66 and said I should repeat to confirm diabetes diagnosis. When 62 came in she said I should start diabetes meds straight away and statins.

I argued that let's revisit in 8 weeks with another blood test whilst I put into action a plan of attack

I am today 5 weeks into a very low calorie diet and have so far shed 14kg, ceased use of CPAP machine for my sleep apnoea and reduced 2 of my meds for hypertension (I am now at 120/80).

My question is this - am I doing myself irreparable harm by not starting Metformin or is it better to avoid meds altogether, get a significant amount of weight off and then commence a LCHF diet.

I purchased a BG meter yesterday and hit 7.6 mmol/L the two times I have tested myself.

I am sorry there is so much info and questions but despite my outwardly calm persona I am experiencing a heady mixture of panic/shame/anxiety and worried that I have let things get too far out of control to pull back.

I would be really grateful to hear from others with similar starting points to myself and particularly those who decided against starting metformin. I have trawled this forum and the LCHF seems to make sense although I am concerned about cholosterol and creating another rod for my back!
 
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xfieldok

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,182
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Some statins will raise your blood glucose. Ignore calories and concentrate on lowering carbs. Sounds like your on the right track.

Stop with the shame, this is not your fault.

Edited to add welcome to the forum.
 
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Itchentofish

Member
Messages
15
Some statins will raise your blood glucose. Ignore calories and concentrate on lowering carbs. Sounds like your on the right track.

Stop with the shame, this is not your fault.

Edited to add welcome to the forum.
Thank you for the advice on statins and blood glucose - I did not know that.
 

Jo_the_boat

Well-Known Member
Messages
784
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
One thing you must know first off is that nobody on here can give medical advice nor be accountable for it. But.....
From my point of view you're doing pretty well. Great weight loss and other benefits, well done.
I'm not the most experienced on here but HbA1c reflects blood glucose and the LC bit of the LCHF eating plan may well help lower your blood sugar. It's the carbs that turn into glucose.
If it was me, having read all sorts of testimonies here (and other places), I would switch from your ultra low calorie diet to a LCHF one taking care initially not to have too much HF. Many people have not only helped their blood sugars but lost weight too.
Some doctors and specialist nurses are getting on board with changing attitudes to dealing with T2, but some appear, frankly, clueless. Is there a way you could contact your doctor and just run your short-term plan by them, maybe just put your mind at rest if they agree.
I hope this makes sense, but well done and best of luck.
 

Itchentofish

Member
Messages
15
One thing you must know first off is that nobody on here can give medical advice nor be accountable for it. But.....
From my point of view you're doing pretty well. Great weight loss and other benefits, well done.
I'm not the most experienced on here but HbA1c reflects blood glucose and the LC bit of the LCHF eating plan may well help lower your blood sugar. It's the carbs that turn into glucose.
If it was me, having read all sorts of testimonies here (and other places), I would switch from your ultra low calorie diet to a LCHF one taking care initially not to have too much HF. Many people have not only helped their blood sugars but lost weight too.
Some doctors and specialist nurses are getting on board with changing attitudes to dealing with T2, but some appear, frankly, clueless. Is there a way you could contact your doctor and just run your short-term plan by them, maybe just put your mind at rest if they agree.
I hope this makes sense, but well done and best of luck.
Thank you so much for taking the time to comment. Appreciate that medical advise should only be dispensed by a licensed professional. I am consuming 800 calories a day at the moment from shakes and soups from a well known diet plan utilised by Prof Roy Taylor. Would I continue to see the weight drop of as fast on Keto and would my blood sugars improve? I don't plan to maintain this present approach beyond 8 weeks and will switch to Keto then.
 

xfieldok

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,182
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I found keto a sustainable way of eating. I like that your not hungry all the time. I used it to control bloods, the weight loss was a byproduct.
 

SarahEN

Well-Known Member
Messages
72
Thank you so much for taking the time to comment. Appreciate that medical advise should only be dispensed by a licensed professional. I am consuming 800 calories a day at the moment from shakes and soups from a well known diet plan utilised by Prof Roy Taylor. Would I continue to see the weight drop of as fast on Keto and would my blood sugars improve? I don't plan to maintain this present approach beyond 8 weeks and will switch to Keto then.
Well done on your weight loss so far!

I did the all food version of this diet for 8 weeks after diagnosis & I can honestly say the meds really helped me to stick to it. However only in so much as it stopped me feeling so hungry. On the shakes etc the temptation to overeat is less I would say. The medication I was on was Metformin - its not designed to lower the bg levels as I understand it- it's to help with Insulin sensitivity.

My starting hba1c was a little lower than yours at 57, I got it to 34 in 3 months & lost 15kg, which was a little bit more than 15% of my body weight. I have stayed in remission since despite no longer being on any medication. Though my last hba1c was 42 (Xmas & birthdays & wedding anniversaries & wine & lockdown are responsible)

You're not that far away from knowing what impact your lifestyle changes has had on your levels. See where you are at the end of 8 weeks but do bear on mind the hba1c is a measure of bg levels over 12 weeks, so it might a little higher than you like still.

Don't be afraid of the metformin as a short term help. Apparently it stops aging too which is an absolute bonus!

Try to use the time to learn abit about what foods are good for a T2 diabetic. That the key to staying of meds long term.

Overall principles are: Carbs are not so good for T2 diabetics & good fats are your friend - they keep you full & Taste lovely. They also do not appear to be a key factor in cholesterol being high (my last bloods had my cholesterol smack bang in normal) or blood pressure being high (mine averages around 105 over 70)
 

lessci

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,024
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Thank you so much for taking the time to comment. Appreciate that medical advise should only be dispensed by a licensed professional. I am consuming 800 calories a day at the moment from shakes and soups from a well known diet plan utilised by Prof Roy Taylor. Would I continue to see the weight drop of as fast on Keto and would my blood sugars improve? I don't plan to maintain this present approach beyond 8 weeks and will switch to Keto then.
I used the newcastle protocol 5+ years ago th "Kick start" the process, then switched to a low(er) carb WOE (way of eating) I lost about 3 1/2 stone in the 1st VLCD phase, and am now about 5 stone down in total (was pushing 20s at 5'5 at my biggest) the main thing with a VLCD is to plan ahead what you are going to do afterwards, it's no good putting in all that hard word and then just going back to square one by reverting to old habits/foods
 
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Lainie71

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,887
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
The term "big boned" lol repeatedly told this growing up!
I found keto a sustainable way of eating. I like that your not hungry all the time. I used it to control bloods, the weight loss was a byproduct.
I'm not as hungry now either and the weight coming off is a bonus.... Everything is getting too big for me to wear so I am altering my clothes where I can with my sewing machine.
 

xfieldok

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,182
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I'm not as hungry now either and the weight coming off is a bonus.... Everything is getting too big for me to wear so I am altering my clothes where I can with my sewing machine.
Ebay until you get to your target weight!
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,576
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Would I continue to see the weight drop of as fast on Keto and would my blood sugars improve?
Probably and yes and you won't be perpetually hungry either which in my view makes it far easier and sustainable.
 

Itchentofish

Member
Messages
15
Well done on your weight loss so far!

I did the all food version of this diet for 8 weeks after diagnosis & I can honestly say the meds really helped me to stick to it. However only in so much as it stopped me feeling so hungry. On the shakes etc the temptation to overeat is less I would say. The medication I was on was Metformin - its not designed to lower the bg levels as I understand it- it's to help with Insulin sensitivity.

My starting hba1c was a little lower than yours at 57, I got it to 34 in 3 months & lost 15kg, which was a little bit more than 15% of my body weight. I have stayed in remission since despite no longer being on any medication. Though my last hba1c was 42 (Xmas & birthdays & wedding anniversaries & wine & lockdown are responsible)

You're not that far away from knowing what impact your lifestyle changes has had on your levels. See where you are at the end of 8 weeks but do bear on mind the hba1c is a measure of bg levels over 12 weeks, so it might a little higher than you like still.

Don't be afraid of the metformin as a short term help. Apparently it stops aging too which is an absolute bonus!

Try to use the time to learn abit about what foods are good for a T2 diabetic. That the key to staying of meds long term.

Overall principles are: Carbs are not so good for T2 diabetics & good fats are your friend - they keep you full & Taste lovely. They also do not appear to be a key factor in cholesterol being high (my last bloods had my cholesterol smack bang in normal) or blood pressure being high (mine averages around 105 over 70)
Thank you for taking the time to post - it is really helpful on a psychological level to hear from people who are/have gone through this. At the moment I think for me, taking the metformin is like acknowledging something I really don't want to acknowledge (more head in the sand time) but I am worried that I am doing myself potentially more damage by not taking it whilst I continue on the VLCD. Anyone with similar stats who tackled this via lifestyle change/diet without resorting to meds?
 

Itchentofish

Member
Messages
15
Probably and yes and you won't be perpetually hungry either which in my view makes it far easier and sustainable.
Thank you for your reply - at the moment the VLCD suits me as there is no opportunity for overeating (the hunger thing doesn't bother me as I am so shocked by the diagnosis and the implications that I am finding no temptation in eating). Longer term I will start the LCHF with one eye on cholesterol intake.
 

bulkbiker

BANNED
Messages
19,576
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
with one eye on cholesterol intake

What you don't eat your liver makes anyway.. I'd not worry about it in the slightest.
If you do get tested make it a full lipid panel and fast for 12-14 hours beforehand whatever the HCP says.
 

Itchentofish

Member
Messages
15
What you don't eat your liver makes anyway.. I'd not worry about it in the slightest.
If you do get tested make it a full lipid panel and fast for 12-14 hours beforehand whatever the HCP says.
Just looked at your stats and that has really peaked my interest! You started at a very similar weight to me yet from point of diagnosis with HbA1C at 70 dropped to HbA1c 45 in a month and a half!!! Can I ask did you take Metformin at the beginning or did you drop the weight and improve your blood sugars purely through diet? Thank you for taking the time to answer - it is really helping me get my head round this and see some kind of light.
 

KennyA

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
2,913
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Another newly diagnosed T2 just grabbing as much info and advice as I can...

So for years my HbA1C had hovered around low 40's and GP had told me I was pre-diabetic.
Fast forward to beginning of Jan 2021 and these were my stats
51 years of age
6 foot tall
136 KG
BMI 40.7
Sleep apnoea treated with CPAP
4 meds to treat Hypertension controlled at 140/80
4/1/2021 HbA1C 66 - 18/01/2021 HbA1C 62

Burying head in sand hasn't worked out too well for me. Doctor called me after the first blood test of 66 and said I should repeat to confirm diabetes diagnosis. When 62 came in she said I should start diabetes meds straight away and statins.

I argued that let's revisit in 8 weeks with another blood test whilst I put into action a plan of attack

I am today 5 weeks into a very low calorie diet and have so far shed 14kg, ceased use of CPAP machine for my sleep apnoea and reduced 2 of my meds for hypertension (I am now at 120/80).

My question is this - am I doing myself irreparable harm by not starting Metformin or is it better to avoid meds altogether, get a significant amount of weight off and then commence a LCHF diet.

I purchased a BG meter yesterday and hit 7.6 mmol/L the two times I have tested myself.

I am sorry there is so much info and questions but despite my outwardly calm persona I am experiencing a heady mixture of panic/shame/anxiety and worried that I have let things get too far out of control to pull back.

I would be really grateful to hear from others with similar starting points to myself and particularly those who decided against starting metformin. I have trawled this forum and the LCHF seems to make sense although I am concerned about cholosterol and creating another rod for my back!

You pre-diagnosis sounds a bit like me pre-diagnosis. I got quickly back to a normal BG (from a HbA1c of only 50) using only diet, no meds and no change to exercise. I didn't bother about calories and went low-carb. It took four months, maybe a bit less.

I am also relaxed about cholesterol. All my family seem to have had high cholesterol and as three of my grandparents made it into their 90s I am reluctant to take a drug that promises little if any benefit personally and has several known downsides. There's an excellent cholesterol thread on this forum. You don't "have to get weight off then start LCHF" - LCHF is a great way to reduce weight and size. I haven't dropped that much weight (maybe 15kg total, don't know what I was when I started) but am down six inches on my belt and about an inch or so on my wrist, from LCHF. Also, with LCHF I have never been hungry which is a huge contrast to my (limited) experience with calorie-control diets.

Having never taken Metformin (it was offered) I can't speak from direct experience but I didn't need it to get into normal range and you'll find many people on this forum with identical experiences.

Well done on ditching the CPAP - my required pressure is down but it is still a necessity.

My take-home message is that LCHF should be the first thing to try.
 
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Itchentofish

Member
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You pre-diagnosis sounds a bit like me pre-diagnosis. I got quickly back to a normal BG (from a HbA1c of only 50) using only diet, no meds and no change to exercise. I didn't bother about calories and went low-carb. It took four months, maybe a bit less.

I am also relaxed about cholesterol. All my family seem to have had high cholesterol and as three of my grandparents made it into their 90s I am reluctant to take a drug that promises little if any benefit personally and has several known downsides. There's an excellent cholesterol thread on this forum. You don't "have to get weight off then start LCHF" - LCHF is a great way to reduce weight and size. I haven't dropped that much weight (maybe 15kg total, don't know what I was when I started) but am down six inches on my belt and about an inch or so on my wrist, from LCHF. Also, with LCHF I have never been hungry which is a huge contrast to my (limited) experience with calorie-control diets.

Having never taken Metformin (it was offered) I can't speak from direct experience but I didn't need it to get into normal range and you'll find many people on this forum with identical experiences.

Well done on ditching the CPAP - my required pressure is down but it is still a necessity.

My take-home message is that LCHF should be the first thing to try.
Thank you for taking the time to post. I guess it is initially hard to accept that eating all those things we have been told are "bad" for us whilst avoiding the "goodness " of wholemeal bread takes a mental leap of faith. I am just into week 6 of my VLCD so with only 3 weeks to complete my eight week target of 20kg loss I will keep with it as I am in a routine. I will spend the intervening time on diet doctor planning my transition into LCHF once I have had my next blood test at the GP. Again thanks for the help and advice.
 
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Daibell

Master
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12,642
Type of diabetes
LADA
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Insulin
First, ignore Calories and focus on the Carbs. Why? Calories are not a food group; merely a measure of energy. It can encourage you to reduce the wrong food group i.e. fats when it needs to be carbs for optimum results. Statins are not a diabetes drug and I would suggest should only be prescribed if a full lipids panel blood test shows your ratios need correcting. Perhaps you and your GP have checked that out but many GPs don't do that or go by Cholesterol total which is the wrong measure. If it was me I would take the Metformin as you no doubt have some insulin resistance. It's a very safe drug.
 
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bulkbiker

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19,576
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Type 2
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Diet only
Can I ask did you take Metformin at the beginning or did you drop the weight and improve your blood sugars purely through diet?
I took metformin for 3 weeks of absolute hell .. tied to the loo so gave it up... that was in early November when I was diagnosed.
From then on purely diet mainly keto with as few carbs as possible which led to the weight loss and drop in blood glucose. I was "fortunate" at the beginning to have a set of HbA1c tests due to a meeting with the area diabetes nurse who congratulated me on my lower blood sugars due to metformin who was most disappointed when I told her they had gone in the bin after only 3 weeks and that my progress was purely through diet. This was after she had pleasantly informed me that T2 was a chronic progressive disease and that I'd end up on insulin what ever I did.
5 years down the line I think I have proved her wrong... unfortunately she left the area not long after our meeting otherwise I'd be gleefully sending her my HbA1c results!