COVID restrictions gone........................

[Lamont D]

Thing is, it's virtually unenforceable, unless the individual is a bit daft and boasts of it. If they work in a relevant environment and have to test regularly, their results will be uploaded, so they'd be unable to go to work.

Beyond that, who will question someone being out and about? Nobody.

Bearing in mind the current variant is common cold-like, how could anyone really know anyway. Once free for all testing goes, how will anyone really have a definitive diagnosis anyway?

It is up to each individual how much they do or don't interact with others. It has never struck me that I should rely upon someone else to keep me safe from covid.

there are millions of people who cannot work from home, and I get annoyed at the thought that the media believe everyone works in an office! People travel to factories all through the pandemic! We have to shop, we have to go places,we are not an island, we cannot be hermits, life is all around us!

but having some restrictions, can help in every way possible, especially those who live with vulnerable people like my disabled wife! The anxiety caused by this government's mismessaging and outright lies, has caused more harm!

Every one of us should spend a day on the covid wards!
To know the reality of a pandemic!

 

[AndBreathe]

I think I’m being misunderstood with my replies, its not the “out and about” people I’m worried about - I’ve been mixing with these throughout the pandemic - and I/we can still do what we’ve always done - eg sanitizer, keep a comfortable distance, mask wearing if I want to - it’s the people my hubby will spend many hours with at work in confined spaces, people as in my previous example coming into my sons safe space (home) for prolonged periods of time,

I’m certainly not relying on anyone else to keep my son safe, I’ve never had anyone before, during or as I’m finding out after Covid had any help with this- we’ve been doing it quite successfully and actually as I’m replying to this I’ve just realised I find that comment a bit upsetting and patronising and I guess maybe you are proving my point of “I’m alright Jack” is going to be the order of the day

I'm alright Jack is a bit of a leap, but best I dip out of this thread. I'm not here for a fight.

 

[zand]

. It has never struck me that I should rely upon someone else to keep me safe from covid.

Me neither, but I do feel I should do my best to protect those more vulnerable than me and not expect them to shut themselves away.

 

[zand]

I find it so sad that here we are, a forum full of people who have had health problems and yet there are some here who don't understand how others less fortunate than themselves might be feeling now that restrictions are being lifted.

 

[Robo42]

I find it so sad that here we are, a forum full of people who have had health problems and yet there are some here who don't understand how others less fortunate than themselves might be feeling now that restrictions are being lifted.

Totally agree zand.

 

[Erin]

To be honest i'm not worried, if the recent few months have shown us anything, its that the vaccination program has kept it under control and limited deaths to an acceptable level.

I accepted and supported the controls early on where the death rate was very high (proportional to cases), now the death rate is very very low and in an "acceptable level" where by the down sides of continued lock down out weighs the up sides.

Its at less then 200 per week with cases the highest we have ever seen them, and that's 200 people who died with covid within the last 28 days. There was an interesting article around January time that showed that if you strip out those people who "died with covid in the last 28 days" from "died because of covid" the number drops at least by half if not more. (IE every one who goes to hospital gets tested and when we have millions of cases may well have covid as they die of cancer)

I do agree that 100 people a week dying is sad, but i don't agree it worth continuing to keep the country under restrictions. Mass population control over such small numbers is a horrible precedent. ~200 people a week die directly of alcohol related issues, ban all pubs and beers. ~600 people die of Diabetes related issues, enforce strict diets and enforce exercise regimes in the whole country etc (lets not get started on obesity in general - BMI check at fast food places to get in?)

I know they are different issues and im being unfair connecting the two, but allot more people die of preventable stuff because there is a line where counter measures out weigh deaths.

Im also speaking from personal experience in that a friend of mine died of something which may well have been prevented if they had been seen at the hospital in the usual way - took the best part of a year to be diagnosed with something that should have been done in a few months with appointments canceled or put off due to covid restrictions (ironically caught covid in hospital at the end and went down as a covid death even though she was riddled with cancer by this point). Then she died alone in hospital as no one could visit. Allot of the removal of restrictions will mean that NHS staff, support staff, infrastructure staff wont be isolating all the time leading to delays which may then result in further deaths. How many will be saved vrs how many will die is always the calculation.

In summary, I totally understand people who are worried if they feel at risk. But I still support the opening up of things to be honest.

I'm so sorry for your friend. I don't doubt that many illnesses are not treated fast enough or muddled up with popular ones. It does P*** me off that drs. make so much money for so little care. I have more respect for vets and nurses. As for calculations and algorithms, political statistics may be an ominous factor. As for opening up, frankly I don't know which is the best direction; I am just vigilant to avoid further contamination. We don't really know if herd immunity may actually kill the virus sooner, after all.

 

[Deleted member 538345]

The bit I find odd is when people who test positive without symptoms are labelled “The Infected.” On any given day the UK was indiscriminately testing more than 1 million people. At a ~3% false positive rate, that guarantees 30,000 positives each and every day. Mathematically all false. You can’t just go around testing millions and millions of healthy people without talking about the fallibility of the test being used. Yet that’s exactly what has happened.

The problem when people like you who’s views on diabetes are respected start discussing covid is that some people will tend to believe you .... so your 30,000 false positives a day each and every day over the last 600 days amounts to 18 million false positives .... out of a total of 18.6 million recorded positive tests .... mmmmm

 

[Member496333]

The problem when people like you who’s views on diabetes are respected start discussing covid is that some people will tend to believe you .... so your 30,000 false positives a day each and every day over the last 600 days amounts to 18 million false positives .... out of a total of 18.6 million recorded positive tests .... mmmmm

Some people will tend to believe me when I state that diagnostic testing has a false positive rate? The horror of it!

The issue is that the false positive rate of testing becomes a massive problem when you are using it to ‘diagnose’ millions upon millions of people who aren’t sick. Whether or not anyone ‘believes’ me is their choice, but it won’t change the facts of the case.

 

[Deleted member 538345]

Some people will tend to believe me when I state that diagnostic testing has a false positive rate? The horror of it!

The issue is that the false positive rate of testing becomes a massive problem when you are using it to ‘diagnose’ millions upon millions of people who aren’t sick. Whether or not anyone ‘believes’ me is their choice, but it won’t change the facts of the case.

Jim, do you really think we have had 18 million false positives out of 18.6 million positive tests ? Really ??

 

[Member496333]

Jim, do you really think we have had 18 million false positives out of 18.6 million positive tests ? Really ??

Probably not, because some of those tested will have had symptoms. But nevertheless the maths is valid when talking about the so-called asymptomatic cases. The false positive rate of the testing absolutely does inflate the cases and alleged ‘infections’. It’s an inescapable truth. Exactly by how much we shall likely never know, but I can say with a high degree of confidence that it’s a very, very large number. And a very large number that has been used as the entire basis of the restrictions we are discussing here.

 

[bulkbiker]

Jim, do you really think we have had 18 million false positives out of 18.6 million positive tests ? Really ??

As none of the tests are fit for purpose then we'll unfortunately never have any decent idea..

 

[Deleted member 538345]

As none of the tests are fit for purpose then we'll unfortunately never have any decent idea..

Marc, You are another who’s opinions on diabetes always interests me as you have done so well, less sure about your attitudes towards medicines, and having had a quick look at your Twitter page I would be interested to know if you consider yourself to be an anti vaxer ?

 

[bulkbiker]

Marc, You are another who’s opinions on diabetes always interests me as you have done so well, less sure about your attitudes towards medicines, and having had a quick look at your Twitter page I would be interested to know if you consider yourself to be an anti vaxer ?

I'm pro true vaccines for those that need/want them...
I'm definitely not pro experimental mRNA product with zero long term results that appears to be ineffective and could in fact be fairly dangerous.

I'm presume you are trying to dismiss anything I have to say as "conspiracy", however there seems to be constantly emerging evidence that the "nutters" might be right after all...

 

[Member496333]

As none of the tests are fit for purpose then we'll unfortunately never have any decent idea..

The CDC recently implied that the RT-PCR cannot actually discriminate between SARS-CoV-2 and influenza. I obviously can’t comment either way, but the almost complete disappearance of flu since winter 2019/20 does raise an eyebrow. The CDC document has of course since been Fact Checked but, to be honest, the official explanation is a right old word salad and seems designed to confuse even further. And this is without even touching on the topic of over-amplified cycle thresholds. It’s a complicated subject but there are definitely major flaws in the system, and any rational discourse has been censored and cancelled with extreme prejudice. Follow the science though eh

 

[AndBreathe]

Me neither, but I do feel I should do my best to protect those more vulnerable than me and not expect them to shut themselves away.

Zand, lets be clear here, I have zero intention of behaving inappropriately in the company of others. As a reserved person, I probably respect the personal space of others more than others, but that doesn't mean we have to have restrictions. We have to move to a position where we think for ourselves, and consider the risks and benefits of any given event or scenario.

Of course there may be those out shopping who are infected (whether they know it or not), but I don't think any change to the rules or laws will change that situation. It has been around us since day 1.

Perfection doesn't exist in this. We all have to accept compromises somewhere along the line. If there is a scenario where we feel nervy we should take personal steps to mitigate that - whether it is wearing a mask, shopping at quiet hours, or replaying the questioning we all probably get if we have a medical appointment - "Are you fit and well today? Do you have any covid symptoms?"

Of course, "they" can lie, but they can also lie today, or yesterday or any other day in the last near 2 years.

(and now I will dip out of this conversation!)

 

[zand]

Zand, lets be clear here, I have zero intention of behaving inappropriately in the company of others. As a reserved person, I probably respect the personal space of others more than others, but that doesn't mean we have to have restrictions. We have to move to a position where we think for ourselves, and consider the risks and benefits of any given event or scenario.

Of course there may be those out shopping who are infected (whether they know it or not), but I don't think any change to the rules or laws will change that situation. It has been around us since day 1.

Perfection doesn't exist in this. We all have to accept compromises somewhere along the line. If there is a scenario where we feel nervy we should take personal steps to mitigate that - whether it is wearing a mask, shopping at quiet hours, or replaying the questioning we all probably get if we have a medical appointment - "Are you fit and well today? Do you have any covid symptoms?"

Of course, "they" can lie, but they can also lie today, or yesterday or any other day in the last near 2 years.

(and now I will dip out of this conversation!)

Although I replied to your post, I wasn't really aiming it at you personally. I agree with almost all of what you are saying.

 

[Member496333]

I think it’s important sometimes to step back from our positions and reconsider events from the beginning. It’s clear now that the IFR for covid-19 is broadly similar to seasonal influenza. Yes people have died but ~1600 die every day in the UK. For this, the world has destroyed jobs, careers, businesses, entire economies and caused untold death and misery to countless millions. Do we really want more, or is it time to move on?

 

[Deleted member 538345]

Almost 6 million people had died the last time I looked, I dread to think what the numbers would be without the various vaccines.

I don’t think anybody on this thread has argued that there should be another lockdown, or that most of the restrictions should not be eased. At the risk of speaking on behalf of others I think the main issues seem to be doing away with testing and telling those who are infected to go out and mix with others if they choose to.

 

[Member496333]

@BrianDoc I think it’s objectively pretty difficult to conclude that the vaccines have made a material difference in mortality. The raw data doesn’t support this claim. All cause mortality rose after the rollout. To say that the vaccines have altered the trajectory at all may be little more than a necessary tiger horn deceit. We simply do not know and never will. Computer programs with government boffins entering their own variables don’t count.

One aspect of this whole saga that really stings is that the VAERS and Yellow Card data is completely ignored at every turn. Two thousand confirmed kills in the UK alone. A small percentage maybe, but never before have we celebrated a vaccine where one of the known side effects is death. Personal choice is one thing, but are we really ok with pressuring, shaming, bullying and bribing people into having an injection that may kill them? It appears that we are.

 

[jape]

The death toll that is quoted by government sources does not mean anything. The statistic that we should be looking at is the excess death toll. Every single day between 500 to 1000 people die in Canada, and between 5,000 and 10,000 people in the US. I guess in the UK it is between 1,000 and 1500. So, the question really should be - how many people died more than the expected death rate.

A fundamental problem of the Covid management (in Canada at least) is that it has been extremely political. In the beginning of the pandemic, our federal government was making spending announcements daily like it was an election campaign, resulting in the federal government debt increasing by more than $500 billion. A lot of people think that this increase in debt is without consequence, but the economic reality is that when people have more spending power than what is actually being produced, the expected result tends to be inflation (as is being experience around the world at the moment).

Btw, I am fully vaxed and boosted, and I am retired, so the lockdowns only had a minimal effect on me, but for some people it has been devastating.