Reversal of T2D, then what?

Waspdog

Member
Messages
16
Everyone is different, and you will have to decide what you can do and how you want to live with this disease for yourself but when people talk about "reversal of t2d" they do not mean they are cured, they mean they are managing their diabetes without medication and to do that requires a concentrated effort to maintain, often a restricted diet, exercise, and or weight-loss. The weight-loss part of this appears to be the most important, that and not having had type 2 diabetes for long also effects the outcome of trying this. If you can lose weight, and therefore lower the fat levels in your liver and pancreas, it might allow your body's beta cells in the pancreas to start working again as they should. In which case you will be able to maintain on a "normal" level without medication much more easily, but you would still need to be careful about the carbs, and the fats, and keeping your weight down, as you will be at a higher risk for those cells to stop working properly again.

I had early onset type 2 (or possible secondary diabetes) because of my PCOS, which was not diagnosed, and that has meant a change in my body's ability to deal with sugar that isn't fixable, when I go back to normal levels with a restricted diet it is because I'm on the restricted diet and not because my body has reverted to normal. That said, and as I mentioned before, I do need to eat carbs with most meals, I will often have a couple of slices of wholemeal bread for a sandwich and will sometimes have a beer, but I need to be on my metformin to do that. I tried for a while with just diet but even if I managed to keep my levels well if I had a cheat day it was noticeable in my bloods...however, one here or there isn't going to be a major issue I think, it's whether you can do that and not slip back towards too many cheat days that might be the bigger problem.

Good luck.

Thanks for your thoughts. I have achieved the weight loss side of the equation 12kg in 2 months, down to a BMI of 23.5, which I WILL maintain. Carbs, a little and not too often seems to be the rule. Wholewheat bread and some home brewed ale, are the things dreams are made off. I make bread and brew beer and enjoy cooking. Ah well salad again for dinner.
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MrsA2

Expert
Messages
5,574
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
In my first year I got down to 38.
It was lockdown and there weren't many opportunities to add carbs without a determined effort.
In my second year I have increased to 39, and I thought I was being good. Good for me includes 85% chocolate most evenings, just a square or 2, wine 2-3 times a week but no more than 2 glasses at a time or else I fall over. I satisfy my cravings for forbidden carbs by having a mouthful or 2 of whatever hubby is having. Never more than a mouthful or 2.
Yet still my hba1c has gone up, so yes I have to stay fairly strict.
You will find a way that suits you, it may not be what you wish now, but it has to be sustainable for your life.
 
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Waspdog

Member
Messages
16
In my first year I got down to 38.
It was lockdown and there weren't many opportunities to add carbs without a determined effort.
In my second year I have increased to 39, and I thought I was being good. Good for me includes 85% chocolate most evenings, just a square or 2, wine 2-3 times a week but no more than 2 glasses at a time or else I fall over. I satisfy my cravings for forbidden carbs by having a mouthful or 2 of whatever hubby is having. Never more than a mouthful or 2.
Yet still my hba1c has gone up, so yes I have to stay fairly strict.
You will find a way that suits you, it may not be what you wish now, but it has to be sustainable for your life.

Thanks for your response. May I please know what you refer to as 38 and 39 and what units? I am guessing that it is HbA1C in mmol/mol, but I would like to be clear.
 

Manda Foodie

Member
Messages
7
Type of diabetes
Don't have diabetes
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Sorry this isn’t inspiring. But it is real.

I think most of us felt the way you do in the early months, that we’ll get this sorted then get back to real life. I did. Then a some point I thought I accepted I couldn’t and just got on with it. I was never on medication and low carbed and keto’er for nearly 4 yrs in remission. Didn’t hate it as I did get used to it but I did miss the convenience of eating “normally”. Til this last year - when I got more lax at it all for a whole host of reasons. It wasn’t a deliberate choice to push the boundaries but it’s happening. At first the odd slip/bit of normality I got away with. Then it happened more and more often. Perhaps because of the other stuff I had going on, perhaps because I wanted to believe I could get away with it. My weight has gone up and so has my hba1c. Not catastrophically but noticeably . And it’s harder to get back on the wagon than it was initially when spurred on by the shock and determination of diagnosis.

My goal is not to expect normal all on its own - much as I’d love that. It’s to stay healthy in the long term. It’s to achieve normal levels without medication or complications and that means keeping control most of the time through diet. For me it definitely means not trying to “get away” with too much as I apparently can resist anything but temptation. So I’m better not having any of something than teasing myself with a little of it. Others need a little to keep themselves motivated.

Sadly I’ve yet to see anyone “go back to normal” ie pre diagnosis lifestyles for any length of time or with any frequent regularity. We can often achieve good enough control to have special occasions and treats occasionally or our own adapated versions of normality for sure but we’re diabetic and unless we actively control this somehow it rears it head again.

On the plus side loads and loads of people have got off medication and stayed off it long term in this forum.

so after all this rambling my answer to the post question is “keep on keeping it reversed” as that is a process which mostly gets easier with knowledge and practice despite my current “blip”

Thanks for your honesty; although I am not Type 2, I am at high risk, and this post captures exactly how my approach to my diet feels for me. All the best for your future success
 
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Mbaker

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,339
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Available fast foods in Supermarkets
Societal norms now revolve around sugary treats. The days of bringing a hog roast or similar have been replaced by cake and biscuits. A previous "normal" is now the new accepted normal, and we all fall for it, because it tastes nice. If you compare and contrast the "normal" in an untouched society an indulgence might be honey (in season only); cross referencing their metabolic states with "ours" it is crystal clear what "normal" to our bodies looks like.

The 2 items beer and bread are grain based, which are just sugar molecules. People continually try to bring potatoes, pasta, bread back, when the real question is do they even work in a modern context for non-diagnosed "normal" population. The latest study we can take as a surrogate shows that 8 out of 10 Americans are not metabolically healthy, this is a wake up call that says almost everyone cannot take the sugar hit. I am in the camp that believes this is mainly due to the very foods being craved on the carbohydrate spectrum, especially when mixed with vegetable fats. My comments have assumed it is sugar (along with veg fat and grains) that is the main problem, happy to be proved otherwise.

So my point to you is look at what you are trying to bring back in for what it is, beer is liquid carbs, and bread is high glyceamic. The theories around what causes heart disease have just as valid hypothesis from the Keto / Carnivore commentators as those from the main stream. It should not be assumed that undiagnosed can and do tolerate carbs especially past their 30's.
 
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Deleted member 543160

Guest
Too many carbohydrates caused me to become T2. This was not my normal or chosen diet - most of my life I'd previously eaten a normal fat moderate carb diet, and reducing carbs down low enough again has enabled me to remain (mainly) at low pre-diabetic /high normal levels for the last 8+ years. If I start eating carbs again my glucose levels tend to go back up so I see no point in doing so particularly since me and my ancient pancreas need to take things a bit easier now...
 

VashtiB

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
2,283
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Sorry this isn’t inspiring. But it is real.

I think most of us felt the way you do in the early months, that we’ll get this sorted then get back to real life. I did. Then a some point I thought I accepted I couldn’t and just got on with it. I was never on medication and low carbed and keto’er for nearly 4 yrs in remission. Didn’t hate it as I did get used to it but I did miss the convenience of eating “normally”. Til this last year - when I got more lax at it all for a whole host of reasons. It wasn’t a deliberate choice to push the boundaries but it’s happening. At first the odd slip/bit of normality I got away with. Then it happened more and more often. Perhaps because of the other stuff I had going on, perhaps because I wanted to believe I could get away with it. My weight has gone up and so has my hba1c. Not catastrophically but noticeably . And it’s harder to get back on the wagon than it was initially when spurred on by the shock and determination of diagnosis.

My goal is not to expect normal all on its own - much as I’d love that. It’s to stay healthy in the long term. It’s to achieve normal levels without medication or complications and that means keeping control most of the time through diet. For me it definitely means not trying to “get away” with too much as I apparently can resist anything but temptation. So I’m better not having any of something than teasing myself with a little of it. Others need a little to keep themselves motivated.

Sadly I’ve yet to see anyone “go back to normal” ie pre diagnosis lifestyles for any length of time or with any frequent regularity. We can often achieve good enough control to have special occasions and treats occasionally or our own adapated versions of normality for sure but we’re diabetic and unless we actively control this somehow it rears it head again.

On the plus side loads and loads of people have got off medication and stayed off it long term in this forum.

so after all this rambling my answer to the post question is “keep on keeping it reversed” as that is a process which mostly gets easier with knowledge and practice despite my current “blip”

You said it so much more eloquently than I :)
 

LeftPeg

Well-Known Member
Messages
195
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
My aim is to get to the stage where I can eat 100-150g of carbs per day without spiking. But I know that day may never come.
 
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Manda Foodie

Member
Messages
7
Type of diabetes
Don't have diabetes
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Societal norms now revolve around sugary treats. The days of bringing a hog roast or similar have been replaced by cake and biscuits. A previous "normal" is now the new accepted normal, and we all fall for it, because it tastes nice. If you compare and contrast the "normal" in an untouched society an indulgence might be honey (in season only); cross referencing their metabolic states with "ours" it is crystal clear what "normal" to our bodies looks like.

The 2 items beer and bread are grain based, which are just sugar molecules. People continually try to bring potatoes, pasta, bread back, when the real question is do they even work in a modern context for non-diagnosed "normal" population. The latest study we can take as a surrogate shows that 8 out of 10 Americans are not metabolically healthy, this is a wake up call that says almost everyone cannot take the sugar hit. I am in the camp that believes this is mainly due to the very foods being craved on the carbohydrate spectrum, especially when mixed with vegetable fats. My comments have assumed it is sugar (along with veg fat and grains) that is the main problem, happy to be proved otherwise.

So my point to you is look at what you are trying to bring back in for what it is, beer is liquid carbs, and bread is high glyceamic. The theories around what causes heart disease have just as valid hypothesis from the Keto / Carnivore commentators as those from the main stream. It should not be assumed that undiagnosed can and do tolerate carbs especially past their 30's.
Totally agree with your last point about not tolerating carbs after 30 - given the number of other things that become too much for the body to tolerate as we age, this makes total sense.
 

mouseee

Well-Known Member
Messages
644
I was diagnosed at 101, down to 36 in 6 months. Back up to 73 after a year or so. My fault but proof, for me anyway, that staying off carbs is the best thing for me. Finding a balance should be possible but I haven't found it yet....
 

Daphne917

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,320
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
My aim is to get to the stage where I can eat 100-150g of carbs per day without spiking. But I know that day may never come.
@LeftPeg and @Waspdog I average between 100 - 130 carbs per day and have had a non diabetic Hba1c for about 9 years. Through testing various foods I know that I can eat small portions of carby foods such as bread, pasta (cooked, cooled and reheated), potatoes, some fruits and the odd cake or two. As we all have different carb tolerances by testing you may find that some foods don’t affect you as much as others. If I’m testing carby foods I tend to test hourly for 3 hours so that I get an idea as to what my BS is doing. For example I used to love croissants but haven’t had them for years but decided to try one last weekend and results were as follows - 1 hr = 10.00:nailbiting:, 2 hrs = 7.6 and 3 hrs = 6.5 indicating that I could re-add them to the ‘menu’ however, due to my taste changing, I found them a little too sweet and greasy so probably won’t bother again!
 
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