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Statins a blanket policy

A

Albion453

Newbie
My concern is about Statins. It seems that most GPs prescribe Statins for people with diabetes.
I have declined.
I read a study and clinical trail that said they are likely to increase Blood Sugar levels in diabetics, added to memory loss etc, I don't think they are a good idea.
 
[email protected]. said:
I am new here so can't post the link.
Google this

Statins and the potential for higher diabetes mellitus risk​

Click to expand...
That is a commonly reported side effect of those meds. The original drug trials excluded people who were already at risk of diabetes so represented general public. The new report which I think you are referring to was conducted on people with prediabetes so were already climbing the ladder.

Here is a general article on the subject
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Statins and diabetes risk: how real is it and what are the mechanisms? - PubMed

The clinical impact of statin-associated diabetes is likely unimportant. The cardiovascular risk reduction benefit from statin far outweighs the potential for adverse effects in all but the very lowest risk individuals.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
[email protected]. said:
My concern is about Statins. It seems that most GPs prescribe Statins for people with diabetes.
I have declined.
I read a study and clinical trail that said they are likely to increase Blood Sugar levels in diabetics, added to memory loss etc, I don't think they are a good idea.
Click to expand...
I think they are okay for certain people like all meds however for me personally - no I would not take them. My mums health declined rapidly and she had been taking statins for years. Her dementia got worse and I put the statins as the culprit. She is now in the later stages of dementia and its shocking and heartbreaking.
 
I have posted this a few times.
When I was misdiagnosed with T2 back In the noughties, I was prescribed a statin, which gave me side effects, the reason was a historic familial heart issues, which is true.
Because of the side effects, I was taken off them given another statin, same side effects.

I was concerned about this, so I started researching.
Statins are designed to help prevent further heart issues. This was confirmed a couple of times when I questioned one of my GP's and my specialist endocrinologist. Who told me that I did not need them, as my heart health was very good. He said in no uncertain terms, that, why would any doctor prescribe drugs that could cause more harm than good?

Statins are a meds overused in medicine. And in my opinion, other options should be found. Unless they are targeted towards those who have suffered heart conditions. And definitely not for diabetes!
 
I've posted before regarding statins and glucose levels. I was on them longe tern before I had T2, and I now believe they helped cause it. Certainly when I finally decided I would no longer take them, my glucose levels (which had already improved with low carbing) came down another couple of points.
 
As with all things, it should be an individual choice, and what suits some does not suit others. Some people can tolerate these, others are made rather ill. I have known many of the latter, and so on my own behalf have declined them. That isn't to say I am right or wrong, just saying what I have done and why. Before taking this decision, I did a great deal of study from proper peer-reviewed research in the public domain. Somewhere on this site ( please could someone more tech-savvy than me locate it?) there is a big and very interesting thread on statins which I recommend reading.

Many GPs are pushing statins at the moment because there is a substantial cash benefit to them for prescribing it. While there are other factors to bear in mind, this is worth knowing. Ultimately for each of us, it is our own decision.
 
During the first appointment with the nurse she checked my record and said my GP had forgotten to prescribe metformin and statins.
I said no, we'd agreed I would try low carb first. I didn't mention the statin issue, but I knew there were no indicators that I needed them!
 
TriciaWs said:
During the first appointment with the nurse she checked my record and said my GP had forgotten to prescribe metformin and statins.
I said no, we'd agreed I would try low carb first. I didn't mention the statin issue, but I knew there were no indicators that I needed them!
Click to expand...
I tried all of the statins on the market, and then got my GP to mark my card as Allergic. But this year he tried again to persuade me to go for a heavy duty 6 monthly implant used to treat hypercholesterolemic patients as a last resort. That is a med for those with genetic condition, and severely reduces LDL.. I think NOT.
 
Just for balance, statins are recommended for those with a history of heart disease, or genetic markers for such as familial (something I can't remember!). We must remember that on here we tend not to know a person's full medical history
 
TriciaWs said:
During the first appointment with the nurse she checked my record and said my GP had forgotten to prescribe metformin and statins.
I said no, we'd agreed I would try low carb first. I didn't mention the statin issue, but I knew there were no indicators that I needed them!
Click to expand...
From what I remember from the metastudy follow up, statins were only really of benefit to elderly men who had already sufffered a CVE. In other words, people alrady proven to be at risk. The 10 year follow up published recntly showed that where the original claim for statins ws something like a 33% reduction in risk of CVE, the actual events at 10 years came in at 3% and that is compared to the general public. It should also be noted that the metastudy showed that there was zero benefit for women.

Now the meta study may be wrong.
Note that this study reports actual events and deaths in terms of per 1000. So where it reports 36 deaths, then the actual rate is 3.6%

It also quotes the Number to Treat, which is the number of people that need to be on full dose 24/7 for the trial period to prevent one single event so in terms of heart disease it seems that 69 people need to take full dose to avert one CVE event. Thus for 68 of them the drug has no benefit. The unlucky one has a risk of 1 in 69.
 
Oldvatr said:
From what I remember from the metastudy follow up, statins were only really of benefit to elderly men who had already sufffered a CVE. In other words, people alrady proven to be at risk. The 10 year follow up published recntly showed that where the original claim for statins ws something like a 33% reduction in risk of CVE, the actual events at 10 years came in at 3% and that is compared to the general public. It should also be noted that the metastudy showed that there was zero benefit for women.

Now the meta study may be wrong.
Note that this study reports actual events and deaths in terms of per 1000. So where it reports 36 deaths, then the actual rate is 3.6%

It also quotes the Number to Treat, which is the number of people that need to be on full dose 24/7 for the trial period to prevent one single event so in terms of heart disease it seems that 69 people need to take full dose to avert one CVE event. Thus for 68 of them the drug has no benefit. The unlucky one has a risk of 1 in 69.
Click to expand...
Just for balance, I did some more research into wot I rote above regarding women. It seems that the analysis I was using for that statement was provided by Dr Malcolm Kendrick, and this POV may be biassed. It seems that women at age 40 have similar risk of cardiovascular events as men, but at age 60 women outstrip men. The meta study I saw does not allow for this natural confounder, and so has a biassed interpretation. It seems that statins do not protect women at age 60 from their comorbidities.
www.contemporaryobgyn.net

Statin use in midlife women

Risk assessment, lifestyle counseling, adverse effects, and medication management.
www.contemporaryobgyn.net www.contemporaryobgyn.net
 
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I have also been told (by different doctors)
- regardless how good BP and cholesterol us, greater fluctuating BG puts a strain on our heart making those with diabetes higher risk
- tests of statin efficiency has only been done on overweight people who not exercise. There was no research into efficiency on people of healthy weight who exercise regularly
- the guidelines are that everyone over 40 years old with diabetes are recommended to take statins.
 
MrsA2 said:
Just for balance, statins are recommended for those with a history of heart disease, or genetic markers for such as familial (something I can't remember!). We must remember that on here we tend not to know a person's full medical history
Click to expand...
I’m sorry, but I don’t think Statin usage for CHD is right. In fact Cholesterol isn’t even in the top 10 most likely causes of CHD. It is about number 14.
The overwhelming cause (slightly more than a quarter if seen on a pie chart) of CHD is Type 2 diabetes.

It is is Pharmaceutical Giants that want your Doctor and us to believe that Cholesterols and Statins are the cause and cure for CHD.
We are being fooled!
Make your Doctor do the research and he/she will change their mind and probably allow you to live longer, with all your marbles in tact.
 
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Dual Stream said:
I’m sorry, but I don’t think Statin usage for CHD is right. In fact Cholesterol isn’t even in the top 10 most likely causes of CHD. It is about number 14.
The overwhelming cause (slightly more than a quarter if seen on a pie chart) of CHD is Type 2 diabetes.

It is is Pharmaceutical Giants that want your Doctor and us to believe that Cholesterols and Statins are the case and cure for CHD.
We are being fooled!
Make your Doctor do the research and he/she will change their mind and probably allow you to live longer, with all your marbles in tact.
Click to expand...
Indeed.

You searched for cholesterol - The Weston A. Price Foundation

www.westonaprice.org www.westonaprice.org
Weston & Price are a renowned health foundation.

Edit to add: They are Naturapathic not medical, so bear that in mind when reading their articles.
 
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Dual Stream said:
The overwhelming cause (slightly more than a quarter if seen on a pie chart) of CHD is Type 2 diabetes.
Click to expand...
Is t2 the cause of is there a correlation between t2 and CHD?
For example, there is a correlation between t2 and obesity and between obesity and CHD. Is t2 the link or obesity?

This is a genuine question not a given or even an assumption.
 
In Response said:
Is t2 the cause of is there a correlation between t2 and CHD?
For example, there is a correlation between t2 and obesity and between obesity and CHD. Is t2 the link or obesity?

This is a genuine question not a given or even an assumption.
Click to expand...
Obviously, I’m not an expert. However having been badly messed about by Xyla Healthcare not sending any of their teachers to our final 3 lectures locally, I decided to look online to see what more I could find out and a lot of what this guy seemed to say not only made sense to me but ring an awful lot of bells as to what has happened to me symptom wise.
I also have a daughter who is currently a medical student and it is making her seriously question current NHS thinking too.

This is actually mostly about Type 2 Diabetes. See what you think?

PS Having been prescribed Statins by my Cardiac Care section at my local Hospital, I suffered huge side effects, including muscle pain and 4 months of partial memory loss.
Having told both my GP and the Hospital I was going to do so, I reduced my intake by 50% and felt so much better.
My GP instantly called me in and agreed that I should stop them completely.
3 weeks later the Cardiac Hospital called me and I was expecting a right ticking off. They still thought I was taking the half dose. I told them I had thrown them ALL in the bin and they said ”OK”!
I was very surprised about this, but maybe they have started to make 2+2=4, at last.

Before Statins were invented, my Grandfather gave up smoking when he was 94 and lived 2 more miserable years until he fell off a garden wall and died, but with all his marbles intact.
My father was prescribed Statins in his late 60’s and died at 80 having completely lost all his marbles!
 
Dual Stream said:
Obviously, I’m not an expert. However having been badly messed about by Xyla Healthcare not sending any of their teachers to our final 3 lectures locally, I decided to look online to see what more I could find out and a lot of what this guy seemed to say not only made sense to me but ring an awful lot of bells as to what has happened to me symptom wise.
I also have a daughter who is currently a medical student and it is making her seriously question current NHS thinking too.

This is actually mostly about Type 2 Diabetes. See what you think?

PS Having been prescribed Statins by my Cardiac Care section at my local Hospital, I suffered huge side effects, including muscle pain and 4 months of partial memory loss.
Having told both my GP and the Hospital I was going to do so, I reduced my intake by 50% and felt so much better.
My GP instantly called me in and agreed that I should stop them completely.
3 weeks later the Cardiac Hospital called me and I was expecting a right ticking off. They still thought I was taking the half dose. I told them I had thrown them ALL in the bin and they said ”OK”!
I was very surprised about this, but maybe they have started to make 2+2=4, at last.

Before Statins were invented, my Grandfather gave up smoking when he was 94 and lived 2 more miserable years until he fell off a garden wall and died, but with all his marbles intact.
My father was prescribed Statins in his late 60’s and died at 80 having completely lost all his marbles!
Click to expand...
Dr Ken D Berry of Camden had his licence to practice revoked in Jan 2018. He features heavily in quackwatch, mainly for his keto diet stance. He is now affiliated to Diet Doctor He is a proponent for the Ketovore diet.
 
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