Low Carb Confused

[phoenix]

Have you got a reference for stating that more people died of cvd events in the lifestyle group or indeed some subgroup of this that did more exercise ? (I haven't been able to find any relevant paper)
The figures I find from the main study report are 283 in the control group (1.25 deaths per 100 person years) and 267 in the intervention group (1.17deaths per 100 person years).
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1212914?query=OF
The lead researcher gives her interpretation of what they found and why the study was halted here. (though it's in more detail in the paper)

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/772429

 

[douglas99]

The amount of energy used on exercise isn't a lot unless the exercise is a lot. An hour's walk will help make you fitter, but won't actually burn many Calories or carbs. If you train like an international athlete, you might see a clear effect.
Hana

Not a major session, but just back from the gym.

Treadmill, rowing machine, about 300 calories in twenty minutes, from the machines. Doubled heart rate to about 140.
15 minutes resistance work, 8 x 15 as the workout on the circuit on the machines.
100 sit ups.
16 lengths of the pool, front crawl, legs only.(practice for scuba) 100 to 150 calories

so around 500 calories maybe, give or take.

Maybe 1/2 to 1/3 of my daily calorie intake at the moment.

 

[Thommothebear]

Sounds like a good workout, but I'd say the primary benefit is the resulting increased metabolic rate for the next 24 hours, the calorie burn is just a nice bonus.


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[Andy12345]

thats the second time ive heard you say about doubling your heart rate douglas, my heart rate is 40 at rest, the fact that it goes into the 150s when going for it, that is obviously alot more than double, would you see this as a problem ?

 

[douglas99]

Mines 60 to 70, so I'm fine at 140 to 150. I was advised that was my target during an 8 week referral to an nhs gym by the trainer there.
My blood pressure is 120 over 80.
I wouldn't like to make any comment on yours Andy, 40 at rest seems very low.
Personally, I'd be getting more advice.

 

[catherinecherub]

Physically fit people usually have a lower resting heart rate.
Some BP meds alter the heart rate and age plays a part too.

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Getti...ity/Target-Heart-Rates_UCM_434341_Article.jsp

 

[Thommothebear]

40 is very low, but not that unusual for athletes. My resting rate is 57, max heart rate is 167, both have been properly measured. My target heart rates during exercise are 60-70% of MR for cardio work and 70-90% for anaerobic. HIT involves mixing them both up so will perhaps in a 45 min rowing session 30mins will be in the 60-70% bracket and the other 15 at the higher rate.

Weight training I usually hit around 148 when lifting heavy after the warmup lifts. i use a heart rate monitor both when doing cardio and resistance, but I only count half the calories registered by the monitor (about 400cals) in a 35min lifting session. i count all cardio cals.


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[douglas99]

Physically fit people usually have a lower resting heart rate.
Some BP meds alter the heart rate and age plays a part too.

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Getti...ity/Target-Heart-Rates_UCM_434341_Article.jsp

They do, that's why I would check that 150 is a reasonable figure for exercise to be honest, as I know nothing about it.

 

[Andy12345]

i take or im supposed to take should i say a tiny dose on lisprinol for bp i started biting them in half and now i hardly bother because my bp is usually 106/64 at night when i test it, i spin when i stand up thats why i almost stopped taking them, i asked the doctor and she said yes its a little high we should put your medication up so i said, hold on i came here to ask if i could stop taking them and you want me to take more? oh ok then we can reduce them.... i kid you not, i havent been back since ( i took my bp as i stood up and it went down to 80/40 whilst spinning hehe it took a few tries to perfect this technic) the a&e said my pulse was very low unless im an athlete (the best moment of my life) i said im not an athlete but i run alot and im training for the marathon, so they was ok with it, i was just wondering if there was a double your heart rate rule i didnt know about, because it probly doubles when walking let alone running

 

[Thommothebear]

If you know what your resting and max rates are then there are some very precise formulas on t'web for calculating appropriate work rates, intervals and pyramids. The standard method of 220 less your age is not a terribly good indicator of max rate, best to get it measured under medical supervision.


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[douglas99]

40 is very low, but not that unusual for athletes. My resting rate is 57, max heart rate is 167, both have been properly measured. My target heart rates during exercise are 60-70% of MR for cardio work and 70-90% for anaerobic. HIT involves mixing them both up so will perhaps in a 45 min rowing session 30mins will be in the 60-70% bracket and the other 15 at the higher rate.

Weight training I usually hit around 148 when lifting heavy after the warmup lifts. i use a heart rate monitor both when doing cardio and resistance, but I only count half the calories registered by the monitor (about 400cals) in a 35min lifting session. i count all cardio cals.


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Very similar to the figures I work to, no monitor on the resistance though, as I'm targeting the cardio at the moment, the resistance is just to give me a balance.

 

[douglas99]

i take or im supposed to take should i say a tiny dose on lisprinol for bp i started biting them in half and now i hardly bother because my bp is usually 106/64 at night when i test it, i spin when i stand up thats why i almost stopped taking them, i asked the doctor and she said yes its a little high we should put your medication up so i said, hold on i came here to ask if i could stop taking them and you want me to take more? oh ok then we can reduce them.... i kid you not, i havent been back since ( i took my bp as i stood up and it went down to 80/40 whilst spinning hehe it took a few tries to perfect this technic) the a&e said my pulse was very low unless im an athlete (the best moment of my life) i said im not an athlete but i run alot and im training for the marathon, so they was ok with it, i was just wondering if there was a double your heart rate rule i didnt know about, because it probly doubles when walking let alone running

I'd change doctors, and get to a new one for a check over.

 

[Andy12345]

Physically fit people usually have a lower resting heart rate.
Some BP meds alter the heart rate and age plays a part too.

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Getti...ity/Target-Heart-Rates_UCM_434341_Article.jsp

ahhh that makes me feel better, i try to get it into or above the 150 mark to be honest, i must have once upon read something about this but its become a habit, when i wear my heart rate monitor i look for the high bit because i always figured i wasnt trying hard enough until it got there

 

[Thommothebear]

Theres a good app for iphone from Azumio which measures various aspects of heart rate responses, including the standup test. There is also another app called fitness test pro which is pretty good.


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[Andy12345]

I'd change doctors, and get to a new one for a check over.

ive seen others, there are about 10 at my surgery, they are just as bad, the bp doctor i mentioned was the first time id seen her

 

[phoenix]

Resting heart rates in athletes can be very low, Lance Armstrong's was about 34, some perfectly healthy but non fit people can have low heart rates but my 85 year old Dad also has a very low heart rate that's a result of congestive heart failure.
Mine was 48- 52 when I was running a lot and is now between 55 and 60. I think the only answer to whether it is too low or high for you, is to have some sort of testing. I have an exercise stress test every 2 years. My doctor won't write me a medical cert to run races or even belong to the walking group unless it's done (and that med cert is a legal necessity here in France, even kids need it to join a football club or judo classes!)

Target heart rate is usually worked out by a simple calculation based on age and sometimes gender. There are some calculations that take the resting rate into account,. When I've tried various formulas I've found that they don't end up with very different figures.
The simplest formula is maximum heart rate = 220 minus age.
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Getti...ity/Target-Heart-Rates_UCM_434341_Article.jsp and max target is about 85% of this.
Most people don't train at 85% for very long though.

 

[Andy12345]

Theres a good app for iphone from Azumio which measures various aspects of heart rate responses, including the standup test. There is also another app called fitness test pro which is pretty good.


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Thankyou Thommo ill have a look at them

 

[Thommothebear]

Most people don't train at 85% for very long though.

Yep, that rate is pretty brutal, best I can manage is about two minutes at a time, but when I do my intervals its usually for 60 seconds at the high rate and then dropping right down until its time for next high rate interval.



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[xyzzy]

Have you got a reference for stating that more people died of cvd events in the lifestyle group or indeed some subgroup of this that did more exercise ? (I haven't been able to find any relevant paper)
The figures I find from the main study report are 283 in the control group (1.25 deaths per 100 person years) and 267 in the intervention group (1.17deaths per 100 person years).
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1212914?query=OF
The lead researcher gives her interpretation of what they found and why the study was halted here. (though it's in more detail in the paper)

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/772429

Not to hand Phoenix but I remember someone posting a reference here or elsewhere when the AHEAD trail originally got cancelled.

Quite happy to accept the figures you've found though it doesn't really alter the fact that AHEAD got cancelled because it was agreed there was a lack of benefit for the intervention group. What I was attempting to convey was not that exercise is in anyway bad or pointless or shouldn't be encouraged just that as with diet things aren't as black and white as they can seem to be.

 

[Andy12345]

Resting heart rates in athletes can be very low, Lance Armstrong's was about 34, some perfectly healthy but non fit people can have low heart rates but my 85 year old Dad also has a very low heart rate that's a result of congestive heart failure.
Mine was 48- 52 when I was running a lot and is now between 55 and 60. I think the only answer to whether it is too low or high for you, is to have some sort of testing. I have an exercise stress test every 2 years. My doctor won't write me a medical cert to run races or even belong to the walking group unless it's done (and that med cert is a legal necessity here in France, even kids need it to join a football club or judo classes!)

Target heart rate is usually worked out by a simple calculation based on age and sometimes gender. There are some calculations that take the resting rate into account,. When I've tried various formulas I've found that they don't end up with very different figures.
The simplest formula is maximum heart rate = 220 minus age.
http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Getti...ity/Target-Heart-Rates_UCM_434341_Article.jsp and max target is about 85% of this.
Most people don't train at 85% for very long though.

thankyou so if im 43, thats 220 - 43 = 177, if i did it right thats only 150.45 thats not alot! maybe i didnt do it right...anyone good at maths? lol