Low Carb Confused

[mrman]

15% carbs, 20% protein, and 65% fat content with a calorific intake of 1800 cals equates to approx 68 carbs a day , approx, just under 270 cals from carbs.
if this was in ref to a 5ft 3inch lady needing to diet she would only need 1200 cals a day would then equate to approx 22.5% from carbs. Would that be considered as a normal diet obviously reducing carbs along with reducing fat/protein or low carb? then add in diff activity, if on a lower carb amount but quite inactive opposed to someone on a reduced carb diet with high activity who would loose weight quicker. Would sugars be better for who is more active or not. Who knows as metabolism,age as well as loads of other things need to be considered.
Point is, if somethings not working for you, do something about it and look at what you could do to improve either weight/sugar levels.




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[xyzzy]

Hi Brett

Yes you are right I averaged around 70g of carbs a day so semi ketogenic. The carb intake was targeted so that I ate few enough so I didn't crave for them and restricted to get my hba1c sub 5.5%. I did a couple of periods of full on ketogenic at sub 30g to kick start weight loss when the weight loss stalled.

The only carbs of that 70g a day to contain significant starch was the occasional single slice of burgen soya bread. My carb intake came primarily from non starchy vegetables, full fat yogurt, berries and fresh fruit salad with lashings of double cream to top myself up to 1800 call a day.

For my age, sex, height and activity levels my BMR calculated to a requirement to eat 2300 calories a day to maintain weight. Hence doing 1800 gives a 3500 calorie deficit a week which when you work out the maths gives you around a 2lb weight loss a week.

My exercise regime is walking the dogs 3 to 5km a day. Walking is excellent exercise on a keto or semi keto regime as the body can get what it needs by burning fat reserves directly saying that a T2 friend who use to post on here does a full keto adjusted regime of 80% fat 15% protein 5% carb and happily runs half marathons so the adage of requiring carbs for real exercise may not hold up to scrutiny either.

Two years down the line with a bmi of 24 and a well rested pancreas I can tolerate more carbs than I use to be able to manage and nowadays I guess I average closer to 100 to 120g a day.
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[mrman]

Hi xyzzy, thanks for your reply,

if this was in ref to a 5ft 3inch lady needing to diet she would only need 1200 cals a day would then equate to approx 22.5% from carbs. Would that be considered as a normal diet obviously reducing carbs along with reducing fat/protein or low carb? then add in diff activity, if on a lower carb amount but quite inactive opposed to someone on a reduced carb diet with high activity who would loose weight quicker. Would sugars be better for who is more active or not. Who knows as metabolism,age as well as loads of other things need to be considered.
Point is, if somethings not working for you, do something about it and look at what you could do to improve either weight/sugar levels.




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[xyzzy]

Hi Brett

I don't think the diet and the amount of carbs per day relative to exercise levels is the important thing here as that is a personal choice.

What is important is what your regime ends up doing for your hba1c and so you should select a long term regime that will work for you be it low carb diet only ,a regime that includes meds or a higher carb insulin regime. All are equally valid if they work for you to keep you safe and healthy.

Low carb works for me so therefore I will extole it's virtues but it's blindingly obvious it isn't the only way and other ways are equally valid.

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[mrman]

I think the amount of carbs per day is extremely relative to exercise, using meds or not. Someone reducing carbs may well have a relatively good hba1c, but, someone on more carbs, but more active may have a better hba1c. And,if both using meds, excercise will exaggerate the effect of meds resulting in reduction of insulin and or tabs.

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[douglas99]

I think this has turned into a very good thread.
Lots of god advice, very good insight into the actualities of everyones way to keep control, and hopefully a good start for the op.

I have to say thought, exercise certainly helps my bs.
If I eat carbs without doing anything, I get higher readings then if I exercise afterwards.
Conversely, if I don't eat carbs, I don't have as much energy, particularly for short bursts of strenuous activity in the cold, I can last longer and feel warmer if I prepare and eat accordingly.

 

[hanadr]

I have just been advised to start a low carb diet to aid in my weight loss and am a looking for help and advise as don't know where to turn, I need to lose 5 stone, I have started doing more cardio to help this process. I am struggling to get an understanding of what I can eat for my meals and snacks I leave the house at 6am to go to the gym and workout for an hour before having breakfast then work in an office all day, arriving home about 6pm for my evening meal. Any information or links to information greatly appreciated someone did mention Slimming Worlds Red days as anyone tried this and had any success. Many Thanks

Cratal
Atkins is still a diet that works. I have just bought the latest edition, because it's been modified a bit and there's a new recipe book out. Take no notice of the doom mongers who say it's dangerous. It IS NOT.
Hana

 

[hanadr]

I think the amount of carbs per day is extremely relative to exercise, using meds or not. Someone reducing carbs may well have a relatively good hba1c, but, someone on more carbs, but more active may have a better hba1c. And,if both using meds, excercise will exaggerate the effect of meds resulting in reduction of insulin and or tabs.

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The amount of energy used on exercise isn't a lot unless the exercise is a lot. An hour's walk will help make you fitter, but won't actually burn many Calories or carbs. If you train like an international athlete, you might see a clear effect.
Hana

 

[noblehead]

The amount of energy used on exercise isn't a lot unless the exercise is a lot. An hour's walk will help make you fitter, but won't actually burn many Calories or carbs. If you train like an international athlete, you might see a clear effect.
Hana

I believe it's around 250 cals for an hours walk, of course much will depend upon the pace of the walk and whether it's climbing hills or walking on a flat surface.

 

[mrman]

So someone on insulin should not reduce the amount of insulin if going on a gentle walk. I know I do as do others whom on occasion walk to work, who would normally drive end up hypo not thinking to reduce insulin.

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[Andy12345]

is there not an after effect to exercise also? not just the actual calories burnt during the activity but the increase in calorie burn and digestion in the following period, in an extreme example, interval training is supposed to increase metabolism for 36 hours+

 

[mrman]

Not so much about weight loss, gentle exercise improves sensitivity to insulin, weather injected or naturally produced. Having less of it helps weightloss. Also, the effect on insulin sensitivity can be seen sometime after the excercise has finished continuing improved sensitivity.

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[douglas99]

The amount of energy used on exercise isn't a lot unless the exercise is a lot. An hour's walk will help make you fitter, but won't actually burn many Calories or carbs. If you train like an international athlete, you might see a clear effect.
Hana

Without knowing the amount of exercise anyone is doing, it's very dangerous to give blanket advice.
Diving in 8C water I can burn a couple of thousand calories, simply breathing, finning and keeping warm in a day.

The amount of exercise is very relative.

 

[douglas99]

is there not an after effect to exercise also? not just the actual calories burnt during the activity but the increase in calorie burn and digestion in the following period, in an extreme example, interval training is supposed to increase metabolism for 36 hours+

I always try to get my heart rate double during exercise, it is supposed to have a lasting effect.
Off to the gym shortly!

 

[noblehead]

So someone on insulin should not reduce the amount of insulin if going on a gentle walk. I know I do as do others whom on occasion walk to work, who would normally drive end up hypo not thinking to reduce insulin.

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Brett, I take my dog out every evening for an hours walk and reduce my insulin by around a half otherwise I would hypo, I don't walk at a slow pace mind and I do try to leave it until an hour has passed after eating before venturing out.

 

[mrman]

Brett, I take my dog out every evening for an hours walk and reduce my insulin by around a half otherwise I would hypo, I don't walk at a slow pace mind and I do try to leave it until an hour has passed after eating before venturing out.

Yes, that what I would think to do also. And if someone was not injecting but producing their own I would think it would have a similar effect on them,just naturally.

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[phoenix]

According to this http://www.healthstatus.com/calculate/cbc calculator, someone of my weight would burn about 320 calories walking for an hour . If you are heavier you actually use up more calories.
When we go on long walks with my walking group I wear a garmin which estimates/records calories. The last 10k we walked with them apparently used just over 1300 calories because it was quite a hilly route. The device probably overestimates a bit but this sort of distance really uses up both calories and glucose, I have to cut my pump basal rate down to 40% and still often need to take dextrose ward off a hypo.

 

[xyzzy]

I think the amount of carbs per day is extremely relative to exercise, using meds or not. Someone reducing carbs may well have a relatively good hba1c, but, someone on more carbs, but more active may have a better hba1c. And,if both using meds, excercise will exaggerate the effect of meds resulting in reduction of insulin and or tabs.

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Yes I agree entirely and therefore some level of exercise is obviously a good thing but like selecting your dietary regime your exercise regime should be a purely personal choice. If you like exercise and use that as a means of reducing hBA1c great but if like me you hate any kind of structured exercise but enjoy the simple pleasure of walking miles then a choice to restrict carbs to get an equivalent hBA1c is equally valid. In reality I can also lower my BG by taking a hot bath as relaxing your muscles will allow them to soak up glucose. The overall aim has to be to lead a healthy sustainable lifestyle and to do that people have to comfortable with the dietary, medication and exercise regimes they choose.

A recent large US government funded study called AHEAD had to be cancelled two years early because it showed that an imposed exercise regime on T2 diabetics did not reduce chances of heart attacks etc. In fact if you read the full analysis those who were placed on the exercise regime died slightly more of cvd events than those who weren't hence why the trail was cancelled.

You can read about the cancelled trail here http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/20/h...d-not-prevent-heart-attacks-in-diabetics.html or here http://www.nih.gov/news/health/oct2012/niddk-19.htm You can also find lots of commentary on the AHEAD trial if you google for it.

With exercise, like diet, things aren't as straightforward as many think.

 

[douglas99]

Yes I agree entirely and therefore some level of exercise is obviously a good thing but like selecting your dietary regime your exercise regime should be a purely personal choice. If you like exercise and use that as a means of reducing hBA1c great but if like me you hate any kind of structured exercise but enjoy the simple pleasure of walking miles then a choice to restrict carbs to get an equivalent hBA1c is equally valid. In reality I can also lower my BG by taking a hot bath as relaxing your muscles will allow them to soak up glucose. The overall aim has to be to lead a healthy sustainable lifestyle and to do that people have to comfortable with the dietary, medication and exercise regimes they choose.

A recent large US government funded study called AHEAD had to be cancelled two years early because it showed that an imposed exercise regime on T2 diabetics did not reduce chances of heart attacks etc. In fact if you read the full analysis those who were placed on the exercise regime died slightly more of cvd events than those who weren't hence why the trail was cancelled.

You can read about the cancelled trail here http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/20/h...d-not-prevent-heart-attacks-in-diabetics.html or here http://www.nih.gov/news/health/oct2012/niddk-19.htm You can also find lots of commentary on the AHEAD trial if you google for it.

With exercise, like diet, things aren't as straightforward as many think.

"but the dieters used fewer medications."
So one advantage at least.
But from a purely personal point of view, I've lost 4 stone through diet.
I wouldn't trade you anything for it back on.

 

[Yorksman]

If you train like an international athlete, you might see a clear effect.

The computer on my rower puts me in the Super Fit category. Not only that, it puts me at the fittest level in the Super Fit category. It measures heart rate recovery over one minute and doesn't take into account my lack of mobility, arthritis, lack of stamina, lack of balance etc etc. It just means that my heart is fit.

Mind you, I do take 8 pills each day to keep it working so it ought to be in good condition.