Diabetes cured

[AnnieC]

I expect we have all watched the TV programmes about very obese people and most of them had T2. Now we know there is not yet a cure for diabetes so how is that when these people loose loads of weight they are told they do not have diabetes anymore...how does that work.

 

[jack412]

it doesn't work for everyone, when they lose the weight, what's left of the pancreas has to be able to produce enough insulin.
it doesn't even need an operation to do it
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/

 

[AndBreathe]

If you read some of Professor Taylor's work, that should be starter for your understanding: http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal.htm

There are also a couple of threads on here, with excellent information: http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/newcastle-diet-advice.55478/page-21#post-630587 and http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/thr...s-where-are-they-now.56235/page-5#post-630074

That'll keep you out of mischief for a while.

 

[AnnieC]

Read it on here and it was mostly about the Newcastle diet and I read the Professor Tayors link where he said the diet was done for 8 weeks People had lost loads of weight on this diet and some here said their diabetes had been reversed so what happened when they stopped the diet did the weight and the diabetes come back. It would be interesting to know if those here who had done it were still diabetes free. Can anyone ever truly be cured just by loosing loads of weight when we are told there is no cure for diabetes

 

[zand]

It's all so new Annie I don't think anyone really knows yet. My own feeling is that yes one or two people on here have been cured. I don't think it's a magic formula for all of us though

 

[Bluetit1802]

My personal understanding is that we can bring our levels right down to genuine non-diabetic levels by losing weight or other means. However, if we then sit down with a non-diabetic and both of us eat the same very high carb and sugary meal, we will spike to unacceptable levels whereas the non-diabetic person won't. That is very simplistic, but it's my way of looking at it.

 

[AndBreathe]

Read it on here and it was mostly about the Newcastle diet and I read the Professor Tayors link where he said the diet was done for 8 weeks People had lost loads of weight on this diet and some here said their diabetes had been reversed so what happened when they stopped the diet did the weight and the diabetes come back. It would be interesting to know if those here who had done it were still diabetes free. Can anyone ever truly be cured just by loosing loads of weight when we are told there is no cure for diabetes

Annie - If you read the threads I posted, some people do have sustained non-diabetes levels; with or without carbs.

In Professor Taylor's information, he talks about food consumption after the very low calories phase. You might find that interesting.

 

[AndBreathe]

My personal understanding is that we can bring our levels right down to genuine non-diabetic levels by losing weight or other means. However, if we then sit down with a non-diabetic and both of us eat the same very high carb and sugary meal, we will spike to unacceptable levels whereas the non-diabetic person won't. That is very simplistic, but it's my way of looking at it.

I think I would be happier if you stated "most people", rather than a blanket "we". I think @Pipp and @Andrew Colvin would fly in the face of your statement. whilst I haven't seen anything nearing diabetic levels, at any time, for an age, I must say I haven't pushed the envelope on carb consumption quite as much as certainly Andrew has. I know Pipp had a carb-fest sabbatical at one stage (Sorry, Pipp, don't mean to make it sound uber-flippant), and whilst she gained a little weight, her bloods were not materially affected. Of course, I may interpreted or remembered that wrongly.

Just for completeness, I don't think of myself as having reversed or cured my condition, but I am negotiating with my GP practise that, for things like statin recommendations, that a a less rigid line is taken, considering I have only ever had one HbA1c at diabetic levels, and that was the diagnostic one. The GP I was talking to at the time, considered a less binary approach would probably be fairer to me.

(I'll educate her in time. )

Sorry Bluetit, that wasn't meant to be a rant at you.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I think I would be happier if you stated "most people", rather than a blanket "we". I think @Pipp and @Andrew Colvin would fly in the face of your statement. whilst I haven't seen anything nearing diabetic levels, at any time, for an age, I must say I haven't pushed the envelope on carb consumption quite as much as certainly Andrew has. I know Pipp had a carb-fest sabbatical at one stage (Sorry, Pipp, don't mean to make it sound uber-flippant), and whilst she gained a little weight, her bloods were not materially affected. Of course, I may interpreted or remembered that wrongly.

Just for completeness, I don't think of myself as having reversed or cured my condition, but I am negotiating with my GP practise that, for things like statin recommendations, that a a less rigid line is taken, considering I have only ever had one HbA1c at diabetic levels, and that was the diagnostic one. The GP I was talking to at the time, considered a less binary approach would probably be fairer to me.

(I'll educate her in time. )

Sorry Bluetit, that wasn't meant to be a rant at you.

No taken as a rant at me, worry not. On reflection, I should have said "most" people" rather than "we". Thanks for pointing it out. There are always exceptions, and much depends also on the amount of damage done to the pancreas beforehand, plus our own personal metabolisms. I have also experimented with taking back additional carbs (to stop losing weight mainly). Some experiments have been successful, others not so. I have much work to do. I was only trying to put in to words how I am looking at it at least for now, and it is also what I tell a few of my friends who keep telling me I will reverse this disease if I continue as I am now. It shuts them up!

 

[Pipp]

I think I would be happier if you stated "most people", rather than a blanket "we". I think @Pipp and @Andrew Colvin would fly in the face of your statement. whilst I haven't seen anything nearing diabetic levels, at any time, for an age, I must say I haven't pushed the envelope on carb consumption quite as much as certainly Andrew has. I know Pipp had a carb-fest sabbatical at one stage (Sorry, Pipp, don't mean to make it sound uber-flippant), and whilst she gained a little weight, her bloods were not materially affected. Of course, I may interpreted or remembered that wrongly.

Just for completeness, I don't think of myself as having reversed or cured my condition, but I am negotiating with my GP practise that, for things like statin recommendations, that a a less rigid line is taken, considering I have only ever had one HbA1c at diabetic levels, and that was the diagnostic one. The GP I was talking to at the time, considered a less binary approach would probably be fairer to me.

(I'll educate her in time. )

Sorry Bluetit, that wasn't meant to be a rant at you.

@AndBreathe, I don't think it sounded flippant at all. In fact, I am quite flattered that you read and took notice of the points I made regarding 'reversing diabetes' in earlier posts.
The carb fest, was a few months ago, and was triggered by nay-sayers and doubters on forum. Not pleasant, and very hard to stop wanting more of the addictive carb ****** food when you start. So much so, that I am still struggling to get over it. The result of indulging in such bad habits is that I am not able to lose the weight I need to to avoid getting to the sort of weight I was when I tipped over the limit into T2 blood glucose levels.

The good news as far as I am concerned is that I have now notched up three years of non-diabetic blood glucose readings. This is despite still being around 5-6 stones too heavy. As you have put in the links to threads I won't go into too much detail, other than to say that Newcastle diet seems to have worked for me. As I get older, and if I do not get weight under control, I may find myself in trouble again. However, no matter what amount of carb junk I consume, so far my blood glucose does not get spiked. If this had not happened to me personally, I too would be sceptical about it, because it does sound like one of those 'miracle cures' we see in tabloid press a lot. I know that it took me a while to convince myself to try it when I first read about it. Having read all of the academic papers I realised that I had nothing to lose, (except perhaps the diabetes and a few stones) by investing 8 weeks of my life in an experiment that could literally give me years back of healthier life. I am glad I did.

 

[Brunneria]

I suspect (and this is just my opinion) that age has a lot to do with it too.

I mean, if someone in their 40s and 50s gets diagnosed type 2, diets, de-fatifies their liver, and 'reverses' their diabetes, then they may stay diabetes free for years, but for how long?

Time will pass. Age affects us all, reduces our resilience. Hips wear out, so why not pancreases? Surely these people have an increased likelihood of developing the symptoms again.

But really, we none of us know. I am sure there will be some? Many? A few? Who stay symptom free for ever. And I will be delighted for them.

 

[AndBreathe]

@AndBreathe, I don't think it sounded flippant at all. In fact, I am quite flattered that you read and took notice of the points I made regarding 'reversing diabetes' in earlier posts.
The carb fest, was a few months ago, and was triggered by nay-sayers and doubters on forum. Not pleasant, and very hard to stop wanting more of the addictive carb ****** food when you start. So much so, that I am still struggling to get over it. The result of indulging in such bad habits is that I am not able to lose the weight I need to to avoid getting to the sort of weight I was when I tipped over the limit into T2 blood glucose levels.

The good news as far as I am concerned is that I have now notched up three years of non-diabetic blood glucose readings. This is despite still being around 5-6 stones too heavy. As you have put in the links to threads I won't go into too much detail, other than to say that Newcastle diet seems to have worked for me. As I get older, and if I do not get weight under control, I may find myself in trouble again. However, no matter what amount of carb junk I consume, so far my blood glucose does not get spiked. If this had not happened to me personally, I too would be sceptical about it, because it does sound like one of those 'miracle cures' we see in tabloid press a lot. I know that it took me a while to convince myself to try it when I first read about it. Having read all of the academic papers I realised that I had nothing to lose, (except perhaps the diabetes and a few stones) by investing 8 weeks of my life in an experiment that could literally give me years back of healthier life. I am glad I did.

Thanks for posting Pipp.

I didn't realise you are still struggling with the aftermath of your dodgy phase. I have to admit, it's that prospect that scares me when I consider pushing the carb envelope.

 

[Pipp]

I suspect (and this is just my opinion) that age has a lot to do with it too.

I mean, if someone in their 40s and 50s gets diagnosed type 2, diets, de-fatifies their liver, and 'reverses' their diabetes, then they may stay diabetes free for years, but for how long?

Time will pass. Age affects us all, reduces our resilience. Hips wear out, so why not pancreases? Surely these people have an increased likelihood of developing the symptoms again.

But really, we none of us know. I am sure there will be some? Many? A few? Who stay symptom free for ever. And I will be delighted for them.

I am sure you are right @Brunneria. I do fear that as I get older my poor old abused pancreas will let me down. My bones started to let me down when I was a teenager, so I look after them by gentle exercise. My hearing is giving up, so I have hearing aids, my eyesight not what it was so I have glasses. I don't expect my body to go on forever. Not aware of any manufactured aids for ailing pancreases though, so if we know that carbs are wearing them out we need to stop chucking carbs at them. If they are hampered by too much overload of body fat we have to reduce the load. Even then, it is unrealistic for me, personally, to believe I will not ever see elevated BG levels again. So I have to help my poor pancreas as best I can to be as efficient as it is able to be. Also, I need to live in the present, and try not to worry too much about the future.

 

[Pipp]

Thanks for posting Pipp.

I didn't realise you are still struggling with the aftermath of your dodgy phase. I have to admit, it's that prospect that scares me when I consider pushing the carb envelope.

Thanks @AndBreathe,
I had a harsh lesson about complacency. Although I actually prefer the taste of the healthy veg and low carb foods, the addictive nature of carbs got a grip of me. Having admitted that is a help. I no longer have the fear of high blood glucose levels as a motivation to stay off the carbs, so need to perhaps look instead at the fear of diabetes levels returning.

 

[AndBreathe]

Thanks @AndBreathe,
I had a harsh lesson about complacency. Although I actually prefer the taste of the healthy veg and low carb foods, the addictive nature of carbs got a grip of me. Having admitted that is a help. I no longer have the fear of high blood glucose levels as a motivation to stay off the carbs, so need to perhaps look instead at the fear of diabetes levels returning.

I can appreciate all of that.

 

[douglas99]

I seem to have my HbA1c, and my fasting level back into a normal range, and a massively unscientific test with a lot of chinese type carby nibbles only took me into about the pre diabetic range.
I also find it reasonably easy to get levels down into normal very quickly again with exercise, (they don't rise that high if I'm exercising, just sitting around)
So although not 'cured' I know I can eat carbs, of most types, and if I exercise afterwards, my BS is normally fairly good.

@AndBreathe I haven't found any desire to keep eating carbs when I push the envelope.
Maybe it's because I eat low GI/GL, so bad carbs don't really do that much for me, and I've also gone off the taste of junk food.
But that was by a slow weight loss.

As @Pipp said, there is nothing to lose by trying the Newcastle diet, I intend to give it a shot in November, and see if I can improve anything.
My only problem is it'll be just after I'll have back into the sessions at the gym in earnest, so it could give interesting effects on my BS initially.

 

[AndBreathe]

I seem to have my HbA1c, and my fasting level back into a normal range, and a massively unscientific test with a lot of chinese type carby nibbles only took me into about the pre diabetic range.
I also find it reasonably easy to get levels down into normal very quickly again with exercise, (they don't rise that high if I'm exercising, just sitting around)
So although not 'cured' I know I can eat carbs, of most types, and if I exercise afterwards, my BS is normally fairly good.

@AndBreathe I haven't found any desire to keep eating carbs when I push the envelope.
Maybe it's because I eat low GI/GL, so bad carbs don't really do that much for me, and I've also gone off the taste of junk food.
But that was by a slow weight loss.

As @Pipp said, there is nothing to lose by trying the Newcastle diet, I intend to give it a shot in November, and see if I can improve anything.
My only problem is it'll be just after I'll have back into the sessions at the gym in earnest, so it could give interesting effects on my BS initially.

Douglas, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make there.

I don't want to rain on your BBQ, but returning your numbers to non-diabetic ranges whilst continuing to take Metformin and Sitagliptin surely couldn't be any comparator to anyone considering a reversal or "cure". Of course, it's none of my business, but it does concern me that you are abusing your pancreas, if you are eating sometimes significantly higher carbs whilst taking a drug to stimulate insulin production. Forgive me if I misunderstand Sitagliptin's purpose.

A few months ago, I had a conversation with one of the few people with whom I shared my diagnosis. Coincidentally, her daughter is a research scientist whose last large piece of work was developing such a medication. When my friend told her I had been diagnosed, she voiced concern about taking such drugs because of the potential to burn the organ out, due to feeling of false security, and the message she sent to me was to avoid them, in a plague like manner, if I had any other options. When I read of your carb-fests it concerns me, on that basis.

I take my hat off to those brave enough to push the envelope further than I have. Thus far, I have rarely been in a situation where could not eat, and I have spent most of my diagnosed life in third world countries, including on dive boats, and socialising with carb-loving Americans. That you find yourself "forced" to eat pot noodle or pasties when, by your own example, out diving is merely a lack of consideration for your own well-being.

That probably reads quite angry, but I can't deny I am a bit. I hope your confidence doesn't come back and bite your derrière any time soon.

I apologise to anyone else taking this class of drug. I had deliberately not shared this before today, but I'm afraid it's out there now.

 

[Pipp]

Douglas, I'm not sure what point you are trying to make there.

I don't want to rain on your BBQ, but returning your numbers to non-diabetic ranges whilst continuing to take Metformin and Sitagliptin surely couldn't be any comparator to anyone considering a reversal or "cure". Of course, it's none of my business, but it does concern me that you are abusing your pancreas, if you are eating sometimes significantly higher carbs whilst taking a drug to stimulate insulin production. Forgive me if I misunderstand Sitagliptin's purpose.

A few months ago, I had a conversation with one of the few people with whom I shared my diagnosis. Coincidentally, her daughter is a research scientist whose last large piece of work was developing such a medication. When my friend told her I had been diagnosed, she voiced concern about taking such drugs because of the potential to burn the organ out, due to feeling of false security, and the message she sent to me was to avoid them, in a plague like manner, if I had any other options. When I read of your carb-fests it concerns me, on that basis.

I take my hat off to those brave enough to push the envelope further than I have. Thus far, I have rarely been in a situation where could not eat, and I have spent most of my diagnosed life in third world countries, including on dive boats, and socialising with carb-loving Americans. That you find yourself "forced" to eat pot noodle or pasties when, by your own example, out diving is merely a lack of consideration for your own well-being.

That probably reads quite angry, but I can't deny I am a bit. I hope your confidence doesn't come back and bite your derrière any time soon.

I apologise to anyone else taking this class of drug. I had deliberately not shared this before today, but I'm afraid it's out there now.

I have to agree that I would not play at Russian roulette with medication to reduce carbs being a 'green light' to consume carbs in high volume.
My own fall into high rubbish carb consumption is, I believe, due to psychological cause. I foolishly allowed myself to be goaded into trying out junk carb food by some posters on this forum. It was a case of me wanting to prove doubters wrong. I believe some, not all, of the posters encouraging me knew what they were doing, and got pleasure in doing so. I am more cautious now.

I venture to ask, @douglas99, is your consumption of high carb foods a form of testing limits or even self- harm, as I believe mine was / is? (To anyone thinking of encouraging me to do that again, I am aware of it now, and won't be drawn in to your games).
Also, @douglas99, I do not understand why you would choose to do Newcastle diet at this point in your T2 control journey.

 

[douglas99]

As @AndBreathe says, there is little point being able to eat carbs, if medication is keeping them in check, hence as I keep saying, I have a phased reduction planned, and should be off the Sitagliptin entirely at the next review, Maybe cutting entirely is seen to be better for some, we decided to cut meds slowly, and review every three months.

'That you find yourself "forced" to eat pot noodle or pasties when, by your own example, out diving is merely a lack of consideration for your own well-being'
I scuba dive, I am thinking of learning to ski, one of my daughters dives with me, the other like skydiving. Lots of things can be a lack of consideration for our own well being.

I don't really see a low GI/GL diet as a carb fest, I see it as I diet that suits me, allows me to reduce my meds, with the aim to be off them entirely, and still keep my blood within a normal range. But also keeps my options open.

@Pipp
As to the newcastle diet, as you yourself said, what is there to lose by it?
I'm not entirely back into the normal range, unless I do watch what I eat.

That doesn't mean I will switch back to a diet that got me into trouble, I like my diet now. My previous eating pattern is gone forever.
I like fresh food, I like cooking, I cook low GI, I eat a controlled amount. I can't see it changing.
Even after my chinese pig out, I made up for it in calories the next day.
But I would to have the option of a pot noodle, and not then swim for an hour under 25m of water, in a dry suit at 9C knowing I have normal BS either way.

 

[Pipp]

As @AndBreathe says, there is little point being able to eat carbs, if medication is keeping them in check, hence as I keep saying, I have a phased reduction planned, and should be off the Sitagliptin entirely at the next review, Maybe cutting entirely is seen to be better for some, we decided to cut meds slowly, and review every three months.

'That you find yourself "forced" to eat pot noodle or pasties when, by your own example, out diving is merely a lack of consideration for your own well-being'
I scuba dive, I am thinking of learning to ski, one of my daughters dives with me, the other like skydiving. Lots of things can be a lack of consideration for our own well being.

I don't really see a low GI/GL diet as a carb fest, I see it as I diet that suits me, allows me to reduce my meds, with the aim to be off them entirely, and still keep my blood within a normal range. But also keeps my options open.

@Pipp
As to the newcastle diet, as you yourself said, what is there to lose by it?
I'm not entirely back into the normal range, unless I do watch what I eat.

That doesn't mean I will switch back to a diet that got me into trouble, I like my diet now. My previous eating pattern is gone forever.
I like fresh food, I like cooking, I cook low GI, I eat a controlled amount. I can't see it changing.
Even after my chinese pig out, I made up for it in calories the next day.
But I would to have the option of a pot noodle, and not then swim for an hour under 25m of water, in a dry suit at 9C knowing I have normal BS either way.

Sorry, still don't understand.