diabetes two and obesity rates did not change in the same way over the decades

[aimee11]

here is an interesting graph

http://www.bryanmarcel.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/sugar32.gif

please notice that diabetes two is not rising at the exact rate of obesity

other factors are involved in making us ill

 

[graj0]

Hopefully that's not because of undiagnosed type II, and with health care as it is in the US, who can tell. It is interesting though. You might like to look at some of the research done by the University of Indiana @ http://www.indiana.edu/~oso/Fructose/Fructose.html. I was trying to find something for the UK.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

The graph seems to deny a causal link between obesity and diabetes. I believe there never was one. For the record my opinion is that people get fatter at the same time as they start to acquire diabetes unless they are not prone to getting fat in which case they get get diabetes and remain thin.

When professor Taylor was interviewed on Breakfast TV he said that thin people get diabetes also and some fat people don't. This suggests that obesity and diabetes lead separate existences and that maybe some other cause results in both sometimes.

There was a suggestion on the forum that more thin people should be subject to random tests. Seems sensible to me.

Gets down off soapbox.

 

[dannyw]

Whilst I agree there will always be exceptions to any disease/condition I do feel that perhaps we are trying to banish blame for something that in many cases actually is down to our diets/lifestyle. I'm sure that won't be a popular post but the simple truth is most diabetics I talk to or read about actually do admit to eating junk food for years and leading a fairly sedentary lifestyle. I'm pretty sure you could find a similar graph for lung cancer and smoking. Some non-smokers get lung cancer and some smokers live to a ripe old age so do we then say smoking and lung cancer are nkt linked ? Again, this post isn't meant to offend anyone and I am fully aware there are thin people with T2 etc, etc. I do believe though that we need to accept facts that for many, this isn't the case. Much of the food we eat now is carb laden, processed junk. I would like to see a similar graph showing the growth of diabetes compared with fast food chains and junk food manufacturers.

 

[douglas99]

Do you have the link to the original webpage, with the article on?
Not the link to solely the graph.

Looking at the graph, from the fact there are no data points on the obesity line before 1990, it would seem that the line is merely extrapolated, as a straight line for the previous ten years. What assumption is that based on?
But ignoring both lines before 1990, and remembering that it would take a while for the medical profession to be looking for new cases of diabetes initially, then diagnosing more as they realise what is happening, the lines start to parallel each other.
It would be interesting to read the articles view on that.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

You make my case for me @dannyw. It's not being fat that causes diabetes but the food we are encouraged to eat making us fat while giving us diabetes. It's probably causing diabetes in naturally thin people too.

During my couple of years testing after eating I was surprised at how many foods are made of just flour and/or sugar. Even some famous gravy granules. Also there is scant understanding of what "Healthy Eating" means. If you ask five different people you get five different answers as well as the famous NHS plate.

 

[aimee11]

Whilst I agree there will always be exceptions to any disease/condition I do feel that perhaps we are trying to banish blame for something that in many cases actually is down to our diets/lifestyle. I'm sure that won't be a popular post but the simple truth is most diabetics I talk to or read about actually do admit to eating junk food for years and leading a fairly sedentary lifestyle. I'm pretty sure you could find a similar graph for lung cancer and smoking. Some non-smokers get lung cancer and some smokers live to a ripe old age so do we then say smoking and lung cancer are nkt linked ? Again, this post isn't meant to offend anyone and I am fully aware there are thin people with T2 etc, etc. I do believe though that we need to accept facts that for many, this isn't the case. Much of the food we eat now is carb laden, processed junk. I would like to see a similar graph showing the growth of diabetes compared with fast food chains and junk food manufacturers.

junk food is bad

it is your genetic predisposition that decides how your overeating of junk food is expressed

some will get cancers and some will get diabetes 2

and some will get even other diseases

at the base of it is genes - what is in the genes is the decider

we sure can make a difference to our health by choosing to eat healthy of course

 

[aimee11]

Do you have the link to the original webpage, with the article on?
Not the link to solely the graph.

Looking at the graph, from the fact there are no data points on the obesity line before 1990, it would seem that the line is merely extrapolated, as a straight line for the previous ten years. What assumption is that based on?
But ignoring both lines before 1990, and remembering that it would take a while for the medical profession to be looking for new cases of diabetes initially, then diagnosing more as they realise what is happening, the lines start to parallel each other.
It would be interesting to read the articles view on that.

very interesting article actually

http://www.bryanmarcel.com/the-food-pyramid-flaw#

 

[douglas99]

You make my case for me @dannyw. It's not being fat that causes diabetes but the food we are encouraged to eat making us fat while giving us diabetes. It's probably causing diabetes in naturally thin people too.

During my couple of years testing after eating I was surprised at how many foods are made of just flour and/or sugar. Even some famous gravy granules. Also there is scant understanding of what "Healthy Eating" means. If you ask five different people you get five different answers as well as the famous NHS plate.

Food is always going to be 'chicken and egg' (no pun intended)

I could go back to preparing food the way my mother used to, down to the shop every morning, prepare the fresh veg, cook the meat, carve, serve, do something with the leftovers etc. It would be even better to go back to my grandparents, and grow it in the allotment, and keep their own chickens.
The only problem is my wife works all day.
So, she either works, as do I, and we buy food that's been grown for us, and prepared.
Or one of us quits, and goes back to the old fashioned full time job of running the house.

Also the fast food suits the commute to work, and the packed lunch. (My father used to come home for his lunch time)
Same with the kids, their school is further away than mine was, more kids stay dinners, how much should we pay for them?
How much extra would fresh food, delivered daily, and prepared at the school cost.

So what came first, fast food, that meant we could all commute, stay at work, both parents work, afford to buy prepared food, or did all that come first, and we changed our lifestyle to utilise it?
I lean towards the food being developed to fit into our lifestyle.

 

[aimee11]

You make my case for me @dannyw. It's not being fat that causes diabetes but the food we are encouraged to eat making us fat while giving us diabetes. It's probably causing diabetes in naturally thin people too.

During my couple of years testing after eating I was surprised at how many foods are made of just flour and/or sugar. Even some famous gravy granules. Also there is scant understanding of what "Healthy Eating" means. If you ask five different people you get five different answers as well as the famous NHS plate.

yes without realising it, in their endless chase for profits, companies like to use cheapest ingredients with the greatest potential for mark up and therefore profit

they never told us what they substituted real food with and so long as it did not kill us instantly they did not care.
so ingredients such as wallpaper paste in yoghurt for example, if you knew it was in the food you might never ever have bought it so the companies who used it never declared it or declare it using scientific names so we are still baffled into thinking it is a food that is ok.
i do not know if wallpaper paste used as a thickener is a problem ingredient or not but I am sure there are many other ingredients which you would never consider adding to your home cooked meals that the companies add to the food they manufacture because it gives them some market advantage.

so we diabetics here understand that the best way is to eat what you prepare yourself in your own kitchen from fresh ingredients for best health

 

[forty six]

Whilst I agree there will always be exceptions to any disease/condition I do feel that perhaps we are trying to banish blame for something that in many cases actually is down to our diets/lifestyle. I'm sure that won't be a popular post but the simple truth is most diabetics I talk to or read about actually do admit to eating junk food for years and leading a fairly sedentary lifestyle. I'm pretty sure you could find a similar graph for lung cancer and smoking. Some non-smokers get lung cancer and some smokers live to a ripe old age so do we then say smoking and lung cancer are nkt linked ? Again, this post isn't meant to offend anyone and I am fully aware there are thin people with T2 etc, etc. I do believe though that we need to accept facts that for many, this isn't the case. Much of the food we eat now is carb laden, processed junk. I would like to see a similar graph showing the growth of diabetes compared with fast food chains and junk food manufacturers.

When Dr Yudkin originally put forward the suggestion that sugar was to blame for rising obesity, heart disease etc he was shot down in flames and that was back in the 50's/60's. He also saw a link between processed food and the rise of the television and travelling by car.

We now have a group of illnesses grouped together under the heading of 'metabolic syndrome' and all can be linked to carb laden food. Zoe Harcombe who is an independent nutritionist says that the average person eating a western diet consumes approx 1500 calories per day from carb related products. If only 1 third of those calories is sugar then that is a lot and as they come from carbs they are converted almost straight away into energy thus giving a sugar high and forcing our bodies to produce insulin. The vicious cycle begins. Try reading 'Fat Chance' by Dr Robert Lustig, he is a true champion in the fight against metabolic syndrome. He to believes that obesity is not the cause of diabetes rather that they are both signs of metabolic syndrome.

 

[douglas99]

very interesting article actually

http://www.bryanmarcel.com/the-food-pyramid-flaw#

That's an interesting article, but he does also show another graph of obesity above the one you linked to.
It's a totally different shape to the straight line, (far more like the obesity curve) pre 1990, so I don't agree with his straight line extrapolation.

 

[aimee11]

this is another interesting article

http://www.bryanmarcel.com/dou-you-need-to-eat-less-and-exercise-more

quoting from above

I think it is a disservice to encourage people to eat less and exercise more. The result will be the same overweight America. We will continue to get fatter. The only way to reverse this process is to break our dependence on cheap, low quality, fast, convenient, and highly processed foods. The obesity trend started to skyrocket in the 1970′s. Is it really logical to think that as a species we have survived for millions of years, but in the last 40 we started eating too much and exercising too little? In the last forty years we have moved away from healthy whole foods and shifted to a diet of processed carbohydrate junk laden with chemicals and additives. When I was a student pilot learning to fly an airplane my instructor told me that if I moved a switch on the airplane and something suddenly went wrong, then I had to move the switch back to its original position. Very sound advice that actually saved my life on one occasion. It’s time to move the food switch back to its original position.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

So what came first, fast food, that meant we could all commute, stay at work, both parents work, afford to buy prepared food, or did all that come first, and we changed our lifestyle to utilise it?
I lean towards the food being developed to fit into our lifestyle.

There is no doubt that prepared food suits the lifestyle of many people otherwise they would not buy it. The sandwich bars are a case in point (bread). Also there are many prepared foods which are made as cheaply as possible and yet are quite expensive to buy. These have strange names like goujon, dippers, nuggets, kievs, all of which will spike me for some strange reason. There is the entire bread and cake aisle etc etc.

As a type 2 diabetic I can't eat these otherwise convenient foods. I now suspect that I shouldn't have been eating them prior to diagnosis.

 

[douglas99]

this is another interesting article

http://www.bryanmarcel.com/dou-you-need-to-eat-less-and-exercise-more

quoting from above

I think it is a disservice to encourage people to eat less and exercise more. The result will be the same overweight America. We will continue to get fatter. The only way to reverse this process is to break our dependence on cheap, low quality, fast, convenient, and highly processed foods. The obesity trend started to skyrocket in the 1970′s. Is it really logical to think that as a species we have survived for millions of years, but in the last 40 we started eating too much and exercising too little? In the last forty years we have moved away from healthy whole foods and shifted to a diet of processed carbohydrate junk laden with chemicals and additives. When I was a student pilot learning to fly an airplane my instructor told me that if I moved a switch on the airplane and something suddenly went wrong, then I had to move the switch back to its original position. Very sound advice that actually saved my life on one occasion. It’s time to move the food switch back to its original position.

The airplane is a brilliant example of how a major lifestyle change such as cheap budget airlines, has evolved to fulfil a demand created for it.
And while airline meals have always been a joke, the public has always demanded cheaper, and less expensive food, rather than pay more and go for the better options in first class.

 

[aimee11]

Does not help when the rich company directors keep looking for ways to pay workers less an d even set up businesses in 3rd world countries so they can pay workers 50 cents a day. No wonder many are forced to buy the cheapest available. Alas that means poor quality food that is costing us in health

 

[douglas99]

Does not help when the rich company directors keep looking for ways to pay workers less an d even set up businesses in 3rd world countries so they can pay workers 50 cents a day. No wonder many are forced to buy the cheapest available. Alas that means poor quality food that is costing us in health

There's no easy answer to that either.
I'm wearing Tesco jeans, and a t shirt.
The jeans were £6, the t shirt £1.

That's cheaper than I was paying 30 years ago.

I chose to buy there, so I'm just as guilty as the directors that put the work in 3rd world countries.
And if Tesco didn't do it, I know Asda do.

As for the food, I used to buy british, and it was seasonal.
Fast transport, and I can buy food from around the world, all year round.
And I'll shop around, like everyone else does.
So the supply chain has to provide value for money, or we go elsewhere.

 

[tim2000s]

Yet here's the rub. My partner and I eat food we prepare ourselves, for all three meals. We both work full time and long hours. We both eat fresh meat and veg that we have purchased from the farmers' market locally and can trace the feeds/background/fertilizers of all the ingredients.

We eat convenience food (in that we stick food in the microwave for lunch and dinner, and often breakfast as well).

How do we do this? Well we have a fridge and freezer. We cook the food we need for a week on a Sunday and it get portioned up. Our own ready meals. I used to make my own bread from ingredients sourced from the same market. We know what we are putting in and we have convenience food.

It's just not that hard. People make up excuses for not doing it, but if people really want to, they make time.

 

[douglas99]

I agree it's possible.
But it makes your hobby shopping and cooking at weekends if you're not careful.

I'm somewhere in the middle, I have different hobbies, sometimes they take my weekends instead, sometimes I cook in the evening. As to farmers markets, it's not often I get to one.

 

[WilliamEE]

There is very little I can buy for lunch where I work. Apart from a place that serves a very nice tuna salad (without dressing). As I would get sick of eating that every day I simply go to the supermarket under where I work and I buy some canned sardines or smoked salmon (or some other seafood) and a bag mixed mixed raw vegetables.