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Type 2's: What was your fasting blood glucose in a morning?

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alliebee said:
My gp is a type 2. And he follows a lchf diet ( I'm so lucky ) has warned me this week that my recent low readings in the day. Average 5.1 are too low...he has researched in depth and apparently readings below normal can be as harmful as high readings..
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What's so wrong about achieving non-diabetic numbers and minimising stress on your pancreas and liver? I'd really like to know what he has 'researched in depth' and concluded this is harmful.
 
No he said continual reading in the low 4's and 5's like I'm getting is not as great ..he said I'm hitting too many lows to feel good. I've got multiple sclerosis too. So maybe he was being concerned. Last week I had a few 3.8 average before meals and he simply said this won't do...we are all different..I'm a theatre sister and test lots of my non diabetic family. ( and some friends and they all test higher pre meals than I do at the moment...I maybe embraced lchf too hard. I certainly lost all my 2 stone I wanted to very quickly and now I'm struggling to maintain...
 
alliebee said:
No he said continual reading in the low 4's and 5's like I'm getting is not as great ..he said I'm hitting too many lows to feel good. I've got multiple sclerosis too. So maybe he was being concerned. Last week I had a few 3.8 average before meals and he simply said this won't do...we are all different..I'm a theatre sister and test lots of my non diabetic family. ( and some friends and they all test higher pre meals than I do at the moment...I maybe embraced lchf too hard. I certainly lost all my 2 stone I wanted to very quickly and now I'm struggling to maintain...
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Oooh ..... I'm now constantly in 4's and 5's nowadays, thinking that was spot on after getting hba1c down to non-diabetic level in october, maybe I will see if there is time to ask tomorrow at gp appointment, I'm actually seeing my old favourite gp who I've not see in a couple of years and of course not since diagnosis!
 
alliebee said:
We all have odd moments of weakness..mine last night was some Tiramisu. My all time fave...had a low carb meal but suddenly got my Christmas head on....now I'm at target weight I tolerate carbs better than before...but there is a price to.pay...once I give in a bit and have carbs. Although tiramisu not awful as its marscapone and I had mine with cream...didn't dare test. My fasting was a bit higher this morning...
My gp is a type 2. And he follows a lchf diet ( I'm so lucky ) has warned me this week that my recent low readings in the day. Average 5.1 are too low...he has researched in depth and apparently readings below normal can be as harmful as high readings..I checked this with my Endo dr friend and he wholeheartedly agrees so I much find a balance once again with carbs..not losing anymore weight but not wanting carb cravings to re surface....
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I am not challenging what your GP advised, I do not necessarily subscribe to the lowest glucose level is necessarily best, but I am surprised that he actually wants your glucose levels to be above what is considered non diabetic levels.

I wonder If he is basing his recommendation on the ACCORD study. In this lowering glucose levels to below hba1c of 6% was found to involve higher risk of cardiovascular disease but the study concentrated on looking at the effect of intensive MEDICINAL intervention in order to achieve the lowering of hba1c, so it could reflect risk of high doses of medication rather than risk of low Hba1c.

Personally I am happy with an hba1c round the 5,3%, which I understand is average for non diabetics.
 
alliebee said:
My gp is a type 2. And he follows a lchf diet ( I'm so lucky ) has warned me this week that my recent low readings in the day. Average 5.1 are too low...he has researched in depth and apparently readings below normal can be as harmful as high readings..I checked this with my Endo dr friend and he wholeheartedly agrees so I much find a balance once again with carbs..not losing anymore weight but not wanting carb cravings to re surface....
Click to expand...

This was exactly what my GP said to me yesterday - he even drew me a graph, showing me where I was and how everything beneath it was unsafe and too low. I haven't wanted to say too much here as I know some folk have purposely low targets or naturally low bs but it does seem to be the general medical belief that too low bs have as much risk of complications as high ones. :( Interesting we should both have encountered this theory within 24 hours
 
Bluetit1802 said:
Adrian will be after you! Maybe it will take the heat off me ;) One or two others have also mentioned fried bread doesn't do much in the way of raising levels. It certainly doesn't with me (half a slice of white). Must be the fat.
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I find I can have a whole slice of fried bread occasionally but only if it comes from a Hovis 50/50 loaf. All other loaves spike me, but this one seems okay and ensures I eat an egg with it. Not really eating enough eggs at present...
 
dianagrace said:
I find I can have a whole slice of fried bread occasionally but only if it comes from a Hovis 50/50 loaf. All other loaves spike me, but this one seems okay and ensures I eat an egg with it. Not really eating enough eggs at present...
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Have you tried the Hovis Wholemeal Seed Sensations? That is the best one for me. I haven't tried the 50/50.
 
alliebee said:
We all have odd moments of weakness..mine last night was some Tiramisu. My all time fave...had a low carb meal but suddenly got my Christmas head on....now I'm at target weight I tolerate carbs better than before...but there is a price to.pay...once I give in a bit and have carbs. Although tiramisu not awful as its marscapone and I had mine with cream...didn't dare test. My fasting was a bit higher this morning...
My gp is a type 2. And he follows a lchf diet ( I'm so lucky ) has warned me this week that my recent low readings in the day. Average 5.1 are too low...he has researched in depth and apparently readings below normal can be as harmful as high readings..I checked this with my Endo dr friend and he wholeheartedly agrees so I much find a balance once again with carbs..not losing anymore weight but not wanting carb cravings to re surface....
Click to expand...

I rally just don't get the "didn't dare test" comments. I mean, if it's as high as you might fear, where's the catastrophy? It may just be lower than you fear, and whilst that may not flag an open season on Tiramisu, it could put it onto the "once in a while when I want to be naughty, but make a less naughty choice than certain things on the menu".

I'd also be interested to hear about these "dangerous" lower levels. (Sorry, I just caught up with a backlog of posts and realise you have made comment already.)
 
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alliebee said:
No he said continual reading in the low 4's and 5's like I'm getting is not as great ..he said I'm hitting too many lows to feel good. I've got multiple sclerosis too. So maybe he was being concerned. Last week I had a few 3.8 average before meals and he simply said this won't do...we are all different..I'm a theatre sister and test lots of my non diabetic family. ( and some friends and they all test higher pre meals than I do at the moment...I maybe embraced lchf too hard. I certainly lost all my 2 stone I wanted to very quickly and now I'm struggling to maintain...
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Allie

What would you say your average pre prandial and post prandial readings are?
 
alliebee said:
My doc says pre meals between 6. And 6.5
After up to 8....this quite shocked me...but coming from a well researched gp and a consultant Endo. Well I have to listen
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But those targets are not making any attempt to reach non-diabetic levels. What hope does anyone have, if they're trying to reverse or get their T2 into remission? There may be potential for these numbers having more validity for T1s, but I have no idea what I'd have to do to achieve a fasting of 6 these days. Even (2 hours) after rice or potatoes I'm well under 6 these days.

I have to say I'm utterly astonished.
 
dianagrace said:
This was exactly what my GP said to me yesterday - he even drew me a graph, showing me where I was and how everything beneath it was unsafe and too low. I haven't wanted to say too much here as I know some folk have purposely low targets or naturally low bs but it does seem to be the general medical belief that too low bs have as much risk of complications as high ones. :( Interesting we should both have encountered this theory within 24 hours
Click to expand...

A few years back, I was regularly seeing readings of between 3 - 4. and I was only on 2 metformin a day then. I use to live in beautiful Somerset and was lucky to have a Dr who cared for his patients.... He told me exactly the same ... That too low bs is just as bad as being too high.
 
A 3.7 for me this morning. I was then up and at it, baking like a thing possessed. All fruits of my labours have gone off for a few days of big-boy time, and I am certain none will return when Mr B does in a few days.

This morning we have also been finalising our plans to return to the sunshine. We booked our respective flights a couple of days ago and dealt with the rest this morning. Now we’re on a countdown and the lists will start to grow! Oh boy; we’re both really missing the sunshine and the warmth.

Play nicely boys and girls, and wrap up warmly if you have to go out.
 
I may be misunderstanding this entirely but the levels suggested by both @alliebee and @dianagrace's GPs are those out forward by NICE as non- diabetic ones so technically if you were running at them you would return a non- diabetic HbA1c, albeit at the higher end.
I guess several things come into play here. 1) do you think those levels are too high even for non- diabetics 2) how much medication is being taken to achieve anything lower 3) what one's own personal pre- diagnosis and pre- decline into the disease range was 4) whether you accept that higher death rates occur at both ends of the BS spectrum which sounds a reasonable assumption to me 5) what other issues running such low levels might have- recently I was reading a low carb dietician's blog in which eating less than 50g carbs a day was associated with low thyroid problems .6) are these levels out of date/ are these GPs and Endo relying on old information and not fully aware of the stuff coming out of Newcastle
Obviously our natural range is what it is, and no one needs to be packing the carbs away like they had always been a non- diabetic.( and personally I find carbs come with other negative side effects) but I don't think that ever decreasing levels are something desirable in themselves either - if they happen , so be it.
This isn't a dig at anyone or their levels just some thoughts that I've had for a bit. I remember the American chap that emails Prof Taylor regularly with his results - he was 4.2 after a blueberry muffin - so yes his levels were low but he was not on meds and was eating unrestricted carbs.
 
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Rose28 said:
A few years back, I was regularly seeing readings of between 3 - 4. and I was only on 2 metformin a day then. I use to live in beautiful Somerset and was lucky to have a Dr who cared for his patients.... He told me exactly the same ... That too low bs is just as bad as being too high.
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Right now, I can't buy that. What about the poor non-diabetics who just have these numbers, but probably don't even know about them? Has anyone ever heard of any non-diabtec being advised to raise their levels, as a result of a periodic health check?

@alliebee and @dianagrace - I'm not trying to rubbish what you have been told, but I would have a million and one questions to ask. I may have to go along for a chat........

@Southport GP - Apologies for tagging you. I am not asking you for any recommendations for how I manage my condition, but what are your general views on consistently low(er) readings for T2s?
 
AndBreathe said:
But those targets are not making any attempt to reach non-diabetic levels. What hope does anyone have, if they're trying to reverse or get their T2 into remission? There may be potential for these numbers having more validity for T1s, but I have no idea what I'd have to do to achieve a fasting of 6 these days. Even (2 hours) after rice or potatoes I'm well under 6 these days.

I have to say I'm utterly astonished.
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The trouble is as we know we are always given 'standard ' advice from drs and D nurses...I'm getting to the point of not knowing what's the best. I'm happy with my lower readings. And unsettled to get advice like this.
 
AndBreathe said:
But those targets are not making any attempt to reach non-diabetic levels. What hope does anyone have, if they're trying to reverse or get their T2 into remission? There may be potential for these numbers having more validity for T1s, but I have no idea what I'd have to do to achieve a fasting of 6 these days. Even (2 hours) after rice or potatoes I'm well under 6 these days.

I have to say I'm utterly astonished.
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Me too. Who do we believe any more
 
According to this article on a recently published German study (full text on a subscription service only)

The researchers observed a higher mortality risk in participants with known diabetes (hazard ratio
, 1.41; 95 percent confidence [CI], 1.08 to 1.84) and undiagnosed diabetes (HR, 1.63; 95 percent CI, 1.23 to 2.17), but not for those with high (HR, 1.02; 95 percent CI, 0.80 to 1.30) or very high diabetes risk (HR, 0.87; 95 percent CI, 0.67 to 1.13). The investigators observed a U-shaped association, with lowest risk at HbA1c levels of 5.4 to 5.6 percent and a significantly increased risk at ≤5.0 percent and ≥6.4 percent.

"The observed U-shaped relationship adds to existing evidence that not only high but also low HbA1c levels might be associated with all-cause mortality," the authors write.

- See more at: http://www.hcplive.com/articles/Mor...ow-and-High-HbA1c-Levels#sthash.nHzfttWH.dpuf
 
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