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Type 2's: What was your fasting blood glucose in a morning?

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alliebee said:
The trouble is as we know we are always given 'standard ' advice from drs and D nurses...I'm getting to the point of not knowing what's the best. I'm happy with my lower readings. And unsettled to get advice like this.
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But you said that your doctor is t2 on LCHF diet, so it does not sound like he is scared to break from the standard advice, at least not on diet.

As you say, this is all very frustrating!
 
Yes he is...im also lucky enough that we socialise with him
He is lchf and doing well. 3 years now and sticks to 60 g of carb a day...but stays inside the figures. Bs readings he told me I should aim for...he achieves this by higher protein intake...I'm just a bit confused by it all
 
I wasn't wishing to open a can of worms by relaying what my GP said but it was too much of a coincidence that @alliebee had received similar information. However she seems to have more faith in her GP than I have in mine. I didn't ask any more questions of him @AndBreathe as I sensed the resistence to LCHF and could tell I was flogging a dead horse. I'm not even sure the new GP I saw yesterday knows if I'm T1 or T2!

I'm totally committed to LCHF and while I remain in better health than I have been for the last decade, I shall continue with it. Despite whingeing about my plateaud weight and stubborn fasting bs, I know something is working because of my improved wellness so I must be getting something right, even if it isn't numbers on the scales or on a blood glucose monitor. They are only numbers afterall. If we all continue to have our health monitored and keep our DN appointments, I really don't think numbers alone matter, but we do have to maintain our health - and keep it under the watchful eye of the professionals.

As my PT said yesterday, with no disrespect to GP's, but at the end of the day, they are not nutritionists, which is presumably why mine said he'd have to consult with a dietician.
 
alliebee said:
Pavlos. I don't know what field of profession you work in...but you are a natural scientist at heart :)
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I am very far from being a scientist but this question of what levels we should be targeting is one very close to my heart.

Until now I understood that non diabetic range Hba1c is what we should all be aiming for. There was a simple elegance to this concept that was hard to resist other than at the back of my head there is always a nagging doubt about such self evident truths.

Non diabetic hba1c is best for a non diabetic but does that automatically make it so for a diabetic?

A diabetic can only reach such a score in one of two ways: intensive medicinal intervention and intensive dietary intervention. Could these interventions be providing their own risks to a diabetic that a non diabetic does not face?

Even within non diabetic hba1c there is still s very big range from 4% to 6%. Should we be aiming for the bottom end, as most of us would be tempted to do simply because as t2 diabetics we are so conditioned to think that the lower the better.

Should we be aiming for the centre ground. I read somewhere that the average non diabetic HbA1c is 5,3%? If we want to be like a typical non diabetic, perhaps this is the target we should aim for. As it happens it is also very close to the 5,4%-5,6% identified as lowest risk by the above study.

I have a lot of questions, when I wish I had more answers instead , but the simple truth is I don't.

For know until someone give me convincing evidence why I should change, I will continue aiming for 5s in the morning and maximum post prandial of 7,8, preferably 6,7 at two hours and a hba1c in the 5,3-5,6 range.

Pavlos
 
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I don't know his reasons for the advice but one thing does strike me.. A non- diabetic is achieving lower levels whilst still eating a diet high in carbs.. We are doing it by restricting a whole host of things , many of which even my non- diabetic low carbing GP doesn't advocate like spuds and rice and pasta with very meal , so I guess the thought might be that we are missing out on other health benefits that things like oats and fruit and root veg like beetroot might provide .. These are just things off top of my head.
Also I'm not in possession of a distribution graph for normal non diabetic HbA1c results so don't know whether they cluster near the level that figures quoted by the various GPs would produce or whether there's a more even distribution with a lot of people at the low end of the range. If only a handful of folk ever achieve such low levels it doesn't seem much point in chasing them through ever increasing medication and dietary restriction. I guess I am advocating eating enough carbs to stay in non diabetic range at all times ( personally I try for that at 1hr too) but not feeling that only being at lower end of scale is good enough.
 
pavlosn said:
I am very far from being a scientist but this question of what levels we should be targeting is one very close to my heart.

Until now I understood that non diabetic range Hba1c is what we should all be aiming for. There was a simple elegance to this concept that was hard to resist other than at the back of my head there is always a nagging doubt about such self evident truths.

Non diabetic hba1c is best for a non diabetic but does that automatically make it so for a diabetic?

A diabetic can only reach such a score in one of two ways: intensive medicinal intervention and intensive dietary intervention. Could these interventions be providing their own risks to a diabetic that a non diabetic does not face?

Even within non diabetic hba1c there is still s very big range from 4% to 6%. Should we be aiming for the bottom end, as most of us would be tempted to do simply because as t2 diabetics we are so conditioned to think that the lower the better.

Should we be aiming for the centre ground. I read somewhere that the average non diabetic HbA1c is 5,3%? If we want to be like a typical non diabetic, perhaps this is the target we should aim for. As it happens it is also very close to the 5,4%-5,6% identified as lowest risk by the above study.

I wish I had more answers, but the simple truth is I don't.

For know until someone give me convincing evidence why I should change, I will continue aiming for 5s in the morning and maximum post prandial of 7,8, preferably 6,7 at two hours and a hba1c in the 5,3-5,6 range.

Pavlos
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You just said so much more eloquently what my clumsy post was trying to convey. I whole heartedly agree that as diabetics , unless lucky enough to instigate a reversal of our condition by weight loss, we are going to be reliant on dietary restriction and/or medication to achieve non diabetic levels. Obviously we are conditioned to think low is better , but that doesn't make lowest best and sometimes I feel that we can get swept up in targets that aren't achievable or desirable for us. If you can eat a blueberry muffin, a baked potato or whatever and still turn in a 4.2, then good on you, but let's not kid ourselves that we can all do this as maybe we never saw those sort of levels even when years away from diagnosis.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
Adrian will be after you! Maybe it will take the heat off me ;) One or two others have also mentioned fried bread doesn't do much in the way of raising levels. It certainly doesn't with me (half a slice of white). Must be the fat.
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I've found that too. Toast and scrambled eggs I go up, fried bread & eggs, not so much....
 
cold ethyl said:
I don't know his reasons for the advice but one thing does strike me.. A non- diabetic is achieving lower levels whilst still eating a diet high in carbs.. We are doing it by restricting a whole host of things , many of which even my non- diabetic low carbing GP doesn't advocate like spuds and rice and pasta with very meal , so I guess the thought might be that we are missing out on other health benefits that things like oats and fruit and root veg like beetroot might provide .. These are just things off top of my head.
Also I'm not in possession of a distribution graph for normal non diabetic HbA1c results so don't know whether they cluster near the level that figures quoted by the various GPs would produce or whether there's a more even distribution with a lot of people at the low end of the range. If only a handful of folk ever achieve such low levels it doesn't seem much point in chasing them through ever increasing medication and dietary restriction. I guess I am advocating eating enough carbs to stay in non diabetic range at all times ( personally I try for that at 1hr too) but not feeling that only being at lower end of scale is good enough.
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I created this graph
ImageUploadedByDCUK Forum1418225316.393644.jpg

from the sample population ( 14099 participants) used in this study

http://m.circoutcomes.ahajournals.org/content/3/6/661.full

of hba1c amongst non diabetics in USA, which I assume is a representative sample of the wider non diabetic population.

You will note that most non diabetics are in the 5-5,4% range.

In fact only 23% of non diabetics have hbA1c of less than 5%

The corresponding percentage for the 5-5,9 range is 69%

While for the prediabetic range 6-6,4% is 8%

Diabetics were excluded from the study

Personally I found this very interesting.

Pavlos
 
pavlosn said:
I created this graph
View attachment 9204

from the sample population ( 14099 participants) used in this study

http://m.circoutcomes.ahajournals.org/content/3/6/661.full

of hba1c amongst non diabetics in USA, which I assume is a representative sample of the wider non diabetic population.

You will note that most non diabetics are in the 5-5,4% range.

In fact only 23% of non diabetics have hbA1c of less than 5%

The corresponding percentage for the 5-5,9 range is 69%

While for the prediabetic range 6-6,4% is 8%

Diabetics were excluded from the study

Personally I found this very interesting.

Pavlos
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Brilliant. I will peruse this tonight when on laptop as iPad not that easy to read on.
 
My partner paid privately for an HBa1c. And it came back 5.6%.. he is fit. Normal weight and bmi. I've tested him before and after and high carb meals and he has hit 9.3 after a meal. Back to 5.8 or 6 after 2 hours
I think I have indeed opened a can of worms
 
For the avoidance of any misunderstanding, I am not trying to convince anyone that they should change their current diet or currently targeted levels.

Both of these are a matter of personal choice.

I am merely expressing my own thoughts on a subject that was brought up by a couple of members'recent conversations with their doctors.
 
alliebee said:
My partner paid privately for an HBa1c. And it came back 5.6%.. he is fit. Normal weight and bmi. I've tested him before and after and high carb meals and he has hit 9.3 after a meal. Back to 5.8 or 6 after 2 hours
I think I have indeed opened a can of worms
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My mind has always been full of worms. I've always been too clever for my own good, always questioning and always finding holes in other people's logic, or worse my own:-)

It does not always make me very popular. :-(
 
Ok. Poor partner has a day off today...
Fasting 5.6
Pre b. 4.8
After 6.1
Toast n porridge
Pre lunch. 5.1
After 6.3
Chicken pannini and salad
Snacks ( he is a grazer). A mince pie
Nuts. A satsuma and an apple and grapes ( so far )
1 hr after. 8.1
2 hours 6.1

My readings are better than his today
Mind you he isn't happy with me. Lol
 
No can of worms but a really interesting topic that I have been thinking about for ages.. Hence my waffly posts about wondering what levels a non diabetic might reach.
I don't think we can tell anyone what is best for them, but I am coming round to idea that I maybe don't need to run myself at such low levels all the time.. Keep posting stuff you two as I'm finding it all fascinating and food for thought.
 
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