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Newcastle diet

@Pipp I think the 3 drinks, salad and a spoon of oil, is a very good way of sticking to it for 8 weeks, it takes away the temptations of eating, if you were cooking up a 800 cal a day meals, it wouldn;t be long before the serves got a lot bigger :)

more important I think is when the diet is over, and where the LC is very important, so as not to go back to old eating habits..a new way of eating for the rest of your life has to be worked out
 
Right, if I were to be in the same position as I was in 2011 when I first tried ND (i.e. morbidly obese, more than twice the weight I should be, BMI 50+, constantly increasing BG , and needing more and more diabetes medication) I would most certainly repeat the Total Food Replacement method, or at least the liquid meal replacement with supplement of veg. I believe it was the massive amount of body fat that was causing the raised BG.

As I now weight around 5 stones overweight, still obese, but less so and now with stable non-diabetes BG levels and no medication I choose to use the less drastic Newcastle diet method with up to 1200 calories. The weight loss is slower, but it is socially less isolating. I may at some time repeat the 800 calorie version to speed weight loss.
 
jack412 said:
@Pipp I think the 3 drinks, salad and a spoon of oil, is a very good way of sticking to it for 8 weeks, it takes away the temptations of eating, if you were cooking up a 800 cal a day meals, it wouldn;t be long before the serves got a lot bigger :)

more important I think is when the diet is over, and where the LC is very important, so as not to go back to old eating habits..a new way of eating for the rest of your life has to be worked out
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Our posts crossed @jack412

I agree with this. It is so easy when you are trying to just consume 800 cals of real food to lose count of the cals.

The discipline of Total food replacement, or the addition of salad and oil makes more sense. Also, the very low calorie consumption on TFR puts the body into ketosis, which in itself stops one feeling hungry. With real food on 800 hunger is a factor leading to failure to complete 8 weeks.

When I am not following ND in any form, I stick to Low carb now.
 
Apart from when I get tempted by too many carby foods at Christmas. :(
 
douglas99 said:
I entirely agree with you again.
It's very easy to stick to the newcastle diet, as written by Prof Taylor.
The pdf defines the amount, the 3 drinks are indeed easy to follow, and the salad, or equivalent is clear.
That's why it shouldn't be changed.
(The spoonful of oil adds more than 100 calories, for a very minimal amount of 'empty' food, so that highlights the problems with ad hoc changes, simply for the sake of them. 12.5% calorie increase, for a spoonful of liquid, that's the equivalent of an extra week's food in the 8 weeks, so you'd be looking at 9 weeks for the same diet)
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But the addition of oil protects against gallstones.
 
douglas99 said:
Interestingly, I did it the other way round.
I did the 1200 calorie low fat diet, and got down to a BMI of about 25, over a slower period.
But I was targeting weight loss.
Which helped enormously.

But I seemed to have a better effect when I did the 800 calorie diet for the 5 weeks later on, targeting diabetes.

So, the original Newcastle diet seemed to have been better in my personal experience, based on my own trial of both diets.
But as I always say, we're all different, and can only say what we, personally, have experience off, and what works for us as individuals.
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Yes, I would add that for me the weight loss was secondary, though welcome. For me it was the chance to 'reverse' diabetes. Whatever anyone believes that might mean , for me it is the sustained normal BG for more than 3 years. 7 months of that time without diabetes medication. Whatever happens in my future, I have possibly delayed complications.
 
douglas99 said:
I entirely agree with you again.
It's very easy to stick to the newcastle diet, as written by Prof Taylor.
The pdf defines the amount, the 3 drinks are indeed easy to follow, and the salad, or equivalent is clear.
That's why it shouldn't be changed.
(The spoonful of oil adds more than 100 calories, for a very minimal amount of 'empty' food, so that highlights the problems with ad hoc changes, simply for the sake of them. 12.5% calorie increase, for a spoonful of liquid, that's the equivalent of an extra week's food in the 8 weeks, so you'd be looking at 9 weeks for the same diet)
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fats are an essential nutrient like protein..it's carbs the body can do without
perhaps that's why it changed from a 700 to an 800 diet, for the 100cal spoon of fat for the gallbladder ..so you don't get stones, I referred you to the optifast site before about the oil...I don't know why we are having this again..doing the ND and knowing about the ND isn't essentially the same thing

I would still add a can of sardines [in water] and olive oil to the evening salad
 
jack412 said:
fats are an essential nutrient like protein..it's carbs the body can do without
perhaps that's why it changed from a 700 to an 800 diet, for the 100cal spoon of fat for the gallbladder ..so you don't get stones, I referred you to the optifast site before about the oil...I don't know why we are having this again..doing the ND and knowing about the ND isn't essentially the same thing

I would still add a can of sardines [in water] and olive oil to the evening salad
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Lovely, @jack412 . Just I can't bear the taste of sardines. So just drizzle some flavoured oil on veg.
 
To @fionamarie
I do hope we haven't confused you. I would be happy to have PM from you if I can help further.

Best of luck, whatever you decide.
 
Just curious - has anyone here achieved the promised effect of restoring insulin secretion/action to normal after the Newcastle diet? (All of the 'success' stories I read refer to lowered BG and weight loss while on the diet, which is nice but doesn't really differentiate it from any other low carb diet)
 
Hi and welcome. Whilst the ND can help with weight loss due to the overall calorie limitation, the overall philosophy is based around fat restriction and calorie limitation. For diabetes, we need reduced carbs to reduce both weight and blood sugar. We don't need to worry too much about fats and protein. If you want to save money on special foods and adopt a life-time eating style I favour just setting a daily carb limit to suit your meter and BMI
 
fionamarie said:
Is THIS the Newcastle Diet I have seen people speak of on here?

What is Optifast and where can I buy it?

TIA x
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Roy Taylor who led the study points out that it is the amount of weight loss that is important, not the speed at which you lose the weight. He states, any regime which will allow you to lose enough weight will suffice. In fact, he says it is probably better to do so more slowly because that way, you are most likely to keep the weight off and not put it back on again.

The idea behind the harsh calorie restriction was to compare it with having a gastric band fitted. It had been noticed that people who had this surgery often suddenly appeared to be 'cured of their diabetes'. The severe diet was just mimicking the surgery but the theory is that substantial weight loss will be effective for most type 2 diabetics.

"Hence, for a given individual with type 2 diabetes, reducing the liver and pancreas fat content below his or her personal trigger levels would be expected to result in a release from the fatty acid–mediated dysfunction. Individual tolerance of different degrees of fat exposure vary, and understanding this liposusceptibility will underpin the future understanding of genetically determined risk in any given environment. However, this should not obscure the central point: If a person has type 2 diabetes, there is more fat in the liver and pancreas than he or she can cope with."

The question is, how do you target weight loss so precisely? Starving yourself is one way and as Taylor notes, "... involuntary food shortage, such as a result of war, results in a sharp fall in type 2 diabetes prevalence" but for most of us a determined effort to lose above 15% of body weight, even if it takes months, will do.

And of course, don't put it back on.

"How long will diabetes stay away after weight loss? Long-term normal blood glucose control in previously diabetic individuals after bariatric surgery demonstrates that diabetes does not recur for up to 10 years, unless substantial weight gain occurs"
 
We really don't need to argue about the possible contents of these meal replacements.
I would hope that anyone trying the Newcastle Diet would seek approval from their Dr. before embarking on it. You never know, he might provide Optifast, the one that was used in the trials.
 
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Not sure if the OP has been scared off by the amount of information overload here.

I am reluctant to contribute to posts about ND as they always seem to provoke criticism. Or suggestions that another diet is best. We can all choose, but need unbiased information to be able to make informed choices.

I followed the recommendations from the early Taylor research. Achieved non-diabetic BG levels within days. So, that was before the massive weight loss. BG remains stable even after eating high carb foods. Naturally, I try to avoid high carb because I do not want to regain all the weight lost. I have put some weight back on, and still have some more to lose, but having had two major operations in the interim period, causing considerable difficulty with recovery, and loss of mobility, I am not stressing too much about that. Just making sure I stay as healthy as possible by exercising when I can and sticking with low calorie, low fat, low carb diet. Sometimes with meal replacement products, sometimes with veg, yogurt (full fat) fish and lean meat.

It works for me. I can eat sugary and other high carb foods without the subsequent spikes in BG. I choose not to because if I gain weight, put down layers of fat again, I am inviting the diabetic BG levels back.
 
Daibell said:
Hi, if it works for someone then that's fine but I suspect it's the carb reduction within ND calorie limitation that is helping rather than the fat reduction.
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The objective includes a reduction in liver and pancreatic trigs. It's not just a reduction in carbohydrate consumption. Taylor is very clear on this:

"A clear distinction must be made between weight loss that improves glucose control but leaves blood glucose levels abnormal and weight loss of sufficient degree to normalize pancreatic function."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3609491/figure/F2/

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3609491/figure/F3/


1047fig6.jpg
 
douglas99 said:
Well, I certainly come off most of my medication, I still somewhat watch what I eat though, mainly as I changed my tastes, I still portion control, low GI, unrefined healthy balanced diet.
My HbA1C remains at very normal levels, my BG seems to be fairly responsive.
But I test regularly, and did lose weight beforehand as well.
So I would say I'm improved at least.

I never low carbed though, I don't now, the newcastle diet seems to achieve the effect whilst taking fairly high carb shakes, and is always going to be a short term diet, so maybe that's the thing that differentiates it.
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Douglas, whilst I wholehearted agree your HbA1c has remained low, it was low before you started the ND, so it would be a bit of a disaster if it migrated upwards on it. (Bearing in mind when you finished your stint.)
 
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