Discussion SpotOn - an insulin dosage prediction app

[SpotOn App]

Hi everyone,

I am creating an app that helps you to better estimate the needed bolus insulin dosage. It does so by means of a machine learning algorithm, which essentially learns from past values.

In order to proceed with the development, I am looking for type I diabetics who would like to help validating the app by regularly entering the measurements, calories and dosage and giving feedback about the accuracy of the prediction. You will have the possibility to shape the app and make it really useful.

Please contact me if you are interested to help make this app made by diabetics for diabetics a success!

The SpotOn developer

 

[CarbsRok]

Spot on is a flea treatment for cats and dogs

 

[SpotOn App]

Spot on is a flea treatment for cats and dogs

Hahaha thanks for the hint! Anybody else got this first association? Maybe I should think of a better name then ;-)

The functionality is still as described, however

 

[iHs]

Hi everyone,

I am creating an app that helps you to better estimate the needed bolus insulin dosage. It does so by means of a machine learning algorithm, which essentially learns from past values.

In order to proceed with the development, I am looking for type I diabetics who would like to help validating the app by regularly entering the measurements, calories and dosage and giving feedback about the accuracy of the prediction. You will have the possibility to shape the app and make it really useful.

Please contact me if you are interested to help make this app made by diabetics for diabetics a success!

The SpotOn developer

Hi

Something very similar is already being developed through a famous hospital .......ABC4D advanced bolus calculator

 

[Spiker]

I'd be up for participating. You need to track carbs not calories.

 

[Heathenlass]

I'd be up for participating. You need to track carbs not calories.

I was about to say the same thing ! Calories and blood glucose in a bolus predictor would be useless .

I'd be up for participating , and cross reference my own, personal method of calculating bolus.

One wee hint though, make sure yours has a half unit facility

Signy

 

[tim2000s]

I thought of flea treatments at first as well.

My issue with all of these things is the amount of time I have to send recording stuff.

If I know my ratios and food carb/protein content, then I generically work my bolus out. My brain algorithm is pretty good at this, has had loads of practice and doesn't require me to type anything anywhere.

If I notice anomalies in testing, then I check the top of my novopen echo to confirm what my insulin was. Then I'll write something down and test again tomorrow to try and spot a pattern.

I kind of thought this was how people worked. Do people rely heavily on bolus calculators for what I consider to be very simple maths?

 

[Heathenlass]

I calculate my boluses based on personal knowledge , but occasionally have a brain overloaded ***???? Moment despite years of practice I'd like to cross check my own calculations sometimes, but some of the bolus wizards I have tried have not been too great.


Signy

 

[Spiker]

I agree it's mostly basic arithmetic but I also agree that occasionally the brain gets foggy and a cross check is helpful.
Tbh the bolus calculator on my pump has been one of the handiest features, for convenience and piece of mind.
A really useful bolus calculator would:

- track Insulin On Board
- handle protein
- handle fat
- accept follow up BG data and suggest ratio changes if the follow up values are consistently off
- facilitate basal rate recalibration during fasting periods, based on BG inputs

The additional inputs you need to track are

- time of day
- exercise duration and intensity (tricky)
- illness
- change of routine
- skipped meals, activity or sleep
- basal or bolus dosing errors (+/-)
- different insulin types. (Different QA and basal insulins have different onset times, peak times, duration and total action. Most of these factors are dose dependent even for the same insulin type)
- subcutaneous vs intramuscular injection
- pump vs pen
- bolus time vs meal time eg 20 min before, at start of meal, after meal, etc
- split bolus doses
- mixed QA type bolus doses
- quick / long insulin mixes
- ambient temperature / season
- menstruation
- medications eg steroids
- body weight

Daunted yet?

 

[Spiker]

It would be ideal if the app (presumably on a smartphone) integrated with meters and pumps, ideally wirelessly, to get BG and dosage data.

 

[Spiker]

You know what would be good is a dose calculator built in to an insulin pen, or as a pen cap accessory. You could set your ratios, and then dial up based on carbs and/or BG readings rather than units.

It could even be mechanical rather than electronic. (Handy for the coming Zombie Apocalypse.)

 

[Heathenlass]

LOL @Spiker, you don't want much then ?

The poor OP is probably sobbing in a corner as we speak !

Signy





Ps. Can it also make tea ?

 

[dannyw]

I agree it's mostly basic arithmetic but I also agree that occasionally the brain gets foggy and a cross check is helpful.
Tbh the bolus calculator on my pump has been one of the handiest features, for convenience and piece of mind.
A really useful bolus calculator would:

- track Insulin On Board
- handle protein
- handle fat
- accept follow up BG data and suggest ratio changes if the follow up values are consistently off
- facilitate basal rate recalibration during fasting periods, based on BG inputs

The additional inputs you need to track are

- time of day
- exercise duration and intensity (tricky)
- illness
- change of routine
- skipped meals, activity or sleep
- basal or bolus dosing errors (+/-)
- different insulin types. (Different QA and basal insulins have different onset times, peak times, duration and total action. Most of these factors are dose dependent even for the same insulin type)
- subcutaneous vs intramuscular injection
- pump vs pen
- bolus time vs meal time eg 20 min before, at start of meal, after meal, etc
- split bolus doses
- mixed QA type bolus doses
- quick / long insulin mixes
- ambient temperature / season
- menstruation
- medications eg steroids
- body weight

Daunted yet?

Lol ! SpotOn guy has thrown the towel in and is currently collecting trollies at Tesco

 

[iHs]

I agree it's mostly basic arithmetic but I also agree that occasionally the brain gets foggy and a cross check is helpful.
Tbh the bolus calculator on my pump has been one of the handiest features, for convenience and piece of mind.
A really useful bolus calculator would:

- track Insulin On Board
- handle protein
- handle fat
- accept follow up BG data and suggest ratio changes if the follow up values are consistently off
- facilitate basal rate recalibration during fasting periods, based on BG inputs

The additional inputs you need to track are

- time of day
- exercise duration and intensity (tricky)
- illness
- change of routine
- skipped meals, activity or sleep
- basal or bolus dosing errors (+/-)
- different insulin types. (Different QA and basal insulins have different onset times, peak times, duration and total action. Most of these factors are dose dependent even for the same insulin type)
- subcutaneous vs intramuscular injection
- pump vs pen
- bolus time vs meal time eg 20 min before, at start of meal, after meal, etc
- split bolus doses
- mixed QA type bolus doses
- quick / long insulin mixes
- ambient temperature / season
- menstruation
- medications eg steroids
- body weight

Daunted yet?

What you need is a BiAP and get plugged in lol

 

[Heathenlass]

I thought of flea treatments at first as well.

My issue with all of these things is the amount of time I have to send recording stuff.

If I know my ratios and food carb/protein content, then I generically work my bolus out. My brain algorithm is pretty good at this, has had loads of practice and doesn't require me to type anything anywhere.

If I notice anomalies in testing, then I check the top of my novopen echo to confirm what my insulin was. Then I'll write something down and test again tomorrow to try and spot a pattern.

I kind of thought this was how people worked. Do people rely heavily on bolus calculators for what I consider to be very simple maths?

Thinking about it, I remember a girl on my DAFNE course that truly struggled with dosing because of dyscalculia . A bolus wizard was suggested for her, actually I think it was the DAFNE app !

Signy

 

[SpotOn App]

First of all: Great guys!! I didn't expect so much feedback and I'm really happy to have it!!!

To all those who'd say they'd like to participate: I'll PM you!

I'd be up for participating. You need to track carbs not calories.

You're right! It's a translation error from my side. Sorry.

Hi
Something very similar is already being developed through a famous hospital .......ABC4D advanced bolus calculator

Do you have more details? Would be stupid to develop the same thing twice!

I thought of flea treatments at first as well.

My issue with all of these things is the amount of time I have to send recording stuff.

If I know my ratios and food carb/protein content, then I generically work my bolus out. My brain algorithm is pretty good at this, has had loads of practice and doesn't require me to type anything anywhere.

If I notice anomalies in testing, then I check the top of my novopen echo to confirm what my insulin was. Then I'll write something down and test again tomorrow to try and spot a pattern.

I kind of thought this was how people worked. Do people rely heavily on bolus calculators for what I consider to be very simple maths?

I agree! I myself do it like that. However I see two applications: First, when you are not so sure and want to get a "second opinion", second if you are not experienced this app could really help you!

Therefore: I'd like to make the app as simple and quick to use as possible. If it's difficult to enter data, nobody is ever gonna use it.

It would be ideal if the app (presumably on a smartphone) integrated with meters and pumps, ideally wirelessly, to get BG and dosage data.

Great idea! That is definitly the way it'll work in the future, but I'm no big pharmaceutics cooperation, so I have to get this app working first ;-)

 

[Spiker]

LOL
Ps. Can it also make tea ?

Well I had that on my wish list but I didn't want to overwhelm the poor guy. ;-)

 

[tim2000s]

I'm waiting for novopen to Bluetooth the pen so it can talk to my phone and/or meter so there is one less thing for me to have to input...

 

[SpotOn App]

I wrote you a PM!

I'd be up for participating. You need to track carbs not calories.

I was about to say the same thing ! Calories and blood glucose in a bolus predictor would be useless .

I'd be up for participating , and cross reference my own, personal method of calculating bolus.

One wee hint though, make sure yours has a half unit facility

Signy

 

[encore1332]

I will have a go, pancreas seems to have finally died of and stopped causing trouble. in the process of working out my ratios and any help would be appreciated