DAILY MIRROR HEADLINE

[rosserk]

So many people assume type 2 is caused by us being obese and have little sympathy which is unfair as it is often not the case or cause. I just went shopping and saw a friend who is diabetic...she told me she is now on insulin and is grossly overweight. I glanced in her shopping trolley and saw....crisps, chocolate, ice cream, trifle, popcorn, cakes and 3 huge uncut loaves. I said to her husband 'you're going to be eating well by the look of it and winked....he said no...that's all for her. I looked at her in disbelief and she said 'the way I look at it is....you're a long time dead so I might as well enjoy myself'. I couldn't even raise an argument as it is obvious she is never going to listen. Her average BG is 29.0 and she is happy with that I think the type 2 epidemic is now running out of control and some gps are not willing to help as their budgets don't run to the expense. Educating people is paramount ...to how much junk is in the food we buy, and then lobbying the government to demand changes by the manufacturers. Diabetics also must take responsibility for their condition and not assume that taking insulin will fix everything and let them eat what they want to. I know quite a few that do that....wrongly believe they can eat what they want to because they take insulin....seemingly oblivious to the possible damage they are doing to themselves. It is obviously their choice but sad to see. Therefore, education is once again paramount. It's thanks to places like this forum that so many have taken complete control of their condition and live a happy, well fed life.. If only gps would take a little look around our forum and see the amazing results achieved by good advice and help from the lovely people here who have personal experience and understanding of diabetes which is far more valuable than text book learning and outdated methods practiced by many gps. Perhaps then the numbers of both people diagnosed and amputations would drop dramatically

Excellent points well made. The person in my post is exactly the same as the person you discribed. She always has several bags of sweets and chocolate on her desk and is always eating doughnuts and cakes., washed down with cans of coke (poor control)

When I asked her if it was dangerous for a diabetic to eat those foods she said she would just adjust her insulin to compensate for the meal she ate! I'm not sure insulin was ever intended to help diabetics eat exactly what they want regardless. When she lost her toe, I thought she would see it as a wake up call and mend her ways, she didn't and twelve months later lost the lower part of her leg. She insists the loss of her limb is an unavoidable hazard of being a diabetic. This is what I meant by education being necessary. In her case I don't think it would have made any difference what so ever to her outcome and future problems. The cost of those cakes was half a leg and strangely she thinks it was worth it! She also has a problem with her eyesight and has been warned she is likely to lose her sight but she still thinks it is the diabetes and nothing to do with her control.

 

[Gezzabelle]

Excellent points well made. The person in my post is exactly the same as the person you discribed. She always has several bags of sweets and chocolate on her desk and is always eating doughnuts and cakes., washed down with cans of coke (poor control)

When I asked her if it was dangerous for a diabetic to eat those foods she said she would just adjust her insulin to compensate for the meal she ate! I'm not sure insulin was ever intended to help diabetics eat exactly what they want regardless. When she lost her toe, I thought she would see it as a wake up call and mend her ways, she didn't and twelve months later lost the lower part of her leg. She insists the loss of her limb is an unavoidable hazard of being a diabetic. This is what I meant by education being necessary. In her case I don't think it would have made any difference what so ever to her outcome and future problems. The cost of those cakes was half a leg and strangely she thinks it was worth it! She also has a problem with her eyesight and has been warned she is likely to lose her sight but she still thinks it is the diabetes and nothing to do with her control.

Agree totally....Insulin is not a free ticket to go on eating junk. I gave the forum link to my friends husband and sugested he take a look around our place. His wife has already had 2 heart attacks Education has to be the way...right across the board...from the people on the street right through to the GP's. I am going to email my local MP to try and get the message across to tackle the manufacturing industry...the book has to stop with them ultimately. Putting a sugar tax on drinks etc is unfair on people who are not drinking huge amounts of the stuff.....why should they pay for manufactures to be allowed to go on poisoning us with so much sugar loaded into every mouthful of their beverages? The USA is already forcing manufacturers to sto putting so much bad fat in foods and the same can be done here. It would ultimately save millions of pounds on the NHS and also countless limbs and liver

 

[rosserk]

Diabetes is definately on the increase, we have five people in our office of 10 who have diabetes none of them are overweight. Two of them have excellent control three do not and they are the ones with the problems. They insist none of what has happened or is happening in regards to complications is their fault and they have just been unlucky! You won't find them on this forum.

With regards to manufacturers and sugars and carbs in food and drinks, I'm not sure they are entirely to blame for the increase in diabetes. I don't have a sweet tooth I never drink fizzy drinks and I hate chocolate so I don't believe my problems are related to a lifetime of eating junk food, laden with carbs and sugars. I've always been athletic and extremely fit and my weight has alwyas been stable. No one in my immediate or extended family is overweight and there is no history of diabetes. I do think certain people are predisposed to certain conditions including diabetes, although I agree, not in all cases.

I do think the Government needs to do more to educate people at a young age about what we are putting in our bodies and the effects certain foods can have. They've definately done a poor job so far, hence why are doctors are still tellin diabetics to eat Carbs and spreading the myth that obesity is the major cause, were these people all born obese, or did nurture and a lack of knowledge play a part? I also strongly believe poverty and low income families struggle but that's a different debate. Over the last few years I have become more aware of labelling on products which previously I'd never taken notice of. I've lost count of the times I've been shocked at some of the ingredients in some of those products labelled healthy eating! A newbie posted last night that he was sure he'd eaten the right meal at dinner because it was one of those ready meals with the Government healthy eating label, what he didn't realise was it was high in carbs! I think manufacturers should start labelling products 'may not be suitable for diabetics etc'. And education in our schools, hospitals and clinics with accurate up to date information is a must and should start with our educators.

I always thought Special K was an excellent healthy breakfast cereal, indeed it's marketed as such. There was even a campaign 'drop a jeans size' eat one bowl at breakfast and lunch and your normal evening meal. Not sure it said anywhere this cereal and this diet is not suitable for diabetics! Where was the Government Watch dog when that little campaign netted millions for the manufacturer!

 

[Gezzabelle]

Diabetes is definately on the increase, we have five people in our office of 10 who have diabetes none of them are overweight. Two of them have excellent control three do not and they are the ones with the problems. They insist none of what has happened or is happening in regards to complications is their fault and they have just been unlucky! You won't find them on this forum.

With regards to manufacturers and sugars and carbs in food and drinks, I'm not sure they are entirely to blame for the increase in diabetes. I don't have a sweet tooth I never drink fizzy drinks and I hate chocolate so I don't believe my problems are related to a lifetime of eating junk food, laden with carbs and sugars. I've always been athletic and extremely fit and my weight has alwyas been stable. No one in my immediate or extended family is overweight and there is no history of diabetes. I do think certain people are predisposed to certain conditions including diabetes, although I agree, not in all cases.

I do think the Government needs to do more to educate people at a young age about what we are putting in our bodies and the effects certain foods can have. They've definately done a poor job so far, hence why are doctors are still tellin diabetics to eat Carbs and spreading the myth that obesity is the major cause, were these people all born obese, or did nurture and a lack of knowledge play a part? I also strongly believe poverty and low income families struggle but that's a different debate. Over the last few years I have become more aware of labelling on products which previously I'd never taken notice of. I've lost count of the times I've been shocked at some of the ingredients in some of those products labelled healthy eating! A newbie posted last night that he was sure he'd eaten the right meal at dinner because it was one of those ready meals with the Government healthy eating label, what he didn't realise was it was high in carbs! I think manufacturers should start labelling products 'may not be suitable for diabetics etc'. And education in our schools, hospitals and clinics with accurate up to date information is a must and should start with our educators.

I always thought Special K was an excellent healthy breakfast cereal, indeed it's marketed as such. There was even a campaign 'drop a jeans size' eat one bowl at breakfast and lunch and your normal evening meal. Not sure it said anywhere this cereal and this diet is not suitable for diabetics! Where was the Government Watch dog when that little campaign netted millions for the manufacturer!

Totally agree once again....not all are diagnosed because of eating or drinking junk...I was also concious of what I ate and was always slim and active. There is though a huge amount of bad food eaten probably without realising it as many so called healthy foods as you say are full of sugar and carbs. Low fat meals are bulked up with sugar to replace the fat and are the exact opposite of healthy. My step daughter comes to visit with her kiddies and the handbag is constantly being opened to produce something to pacify them and it is invariably something she believes is healthy for them when it is in fact loaded with sugar. Bad luck is definately responsible for some being diagnosed but also the convenience food market and fast food outlets play a huge part too and it is those manufacturers and suppliers that need to be told to cut the fat and carb in the foods. Not all have time to cook every meal and a take away or ready meal is a great alternative but not when it is laden with so much junk.The debate will run and run but until everyone is educated and takes it on board the numbers will sadly go on rising. Until then we can only try to spread the word and help as many as we can

 

[graj0]

. . . . . . scaremongering or realistic ?

A very good question and what worries me is that what I found on http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/amputation/Pages/Introduction.aspx says "Approximately 5-6,000 major limb amputations are carried out in England every year".

Any danger of something a bit more accurate than 5 - 6,000, which comes out at 115 per week, BUT includes the other people that the NHS say are at risk, they are:-

• the limb has been affected by gangrene (when a loss of blood supply causes the body’s tissue to die) – often as a result of peripheral arterial disease (PAD)
• a disease in the limb – such as cancer or a serious infection – poses a significant danger to health
• serious trauma to the limb – such as a crush or blast wound
• deformity of the limb or persistent pain that means the limb is of limited functional use

PAD alone affects 1 in 5 people over the age of 60 (http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/peripheralarterialdisease/Pages/Introduction.aspx)

I'm trying to get the exact figures but just from what I've found here, the Daily Mirror is scaremongering. To what extent I can't tell but if the NHS break down the amputation figures into causes I'd love to see them. If somebody finds them, please let me know.

BTW, if it's just one it's a sad thing, without even going near why.

 

[graj0]

BTW, if it's just one it's a sad thing, without even going near why.

Just one amputation for whatever reason is sad.

BTW complaints about newspaper content can be made here https://www.ipso.co.uk/oxbxApps/app/complaint1.html. It's a personal thing for me because I'm probably OCD, I have to know the truth and I hate the spreading of inaccurate statistics especially when it's obvious they're having a poke at a group of people, a lot of whom, don't ask for it and are they way they are because of following NHS/NICE/Government guidelines.

I've written to the Mirror first, The IPSO might come later.

 

[catherinecherub]

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/About_us/News/More-than-135-diabetes-amputations-every-week/

 

[graj0]

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/About_us/News/More-than-135-diabetes-amputations-every-week/

That is interesting because it clearly doesn't agree with the NHS figures.

Who amputates these limbs? NHS or Diabetes.org.uk. I wonder what's going on there.

Does anybody have other figures from other organisations and can somebody check the NHS figures, I'm willing to accept making a mistake, if I've made one. It's just a bit scary that a diabetic organisation has figures so different from what the NHS say.

Just double checked http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/amputation/Pages/Introduction.aspx and it says "Approximately 5-6,000 major limb amputations are carried out in England every year".

The piece isn't written very well because it starts by talking about amputations in general, all the other causes, then diabetes, then it quotes that figure in a separate paragraph before going on types of amputations.

I have contacted NHS Choices, the source of my information and asked for clarification, the article is about all amputations, so my assumption was that so were the figures quoted. Probably won't get a reply until Monday. One of them is wrong, that's for sure.

 

[graj0]

While I'm trying to get the proper figures, if possible, what is slightly more worrying is how the figures as a % of the population varies from place to place.

 

[julifriend]

That is interesting because it clearly doesn't agree with the NHS figures.

Who amputates these limbs? NHS or Diabetes.org.uk. I wonder what's going on there.

Does anybody have other figures from other organisations and can somebody check the NHS figures, I'm willing to accept making a mistake, if I've made one. It's just a bit scary that a diabetic organisation has figures so different from what the NHS say.

Just double checked http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/amputation/Pages/Introduction.aspx and it says "Approximately 5-6,000 major limb amputations are carried out in England every year".

The piece isn't written very well because it starts by talking about amputations in general, all the other causes, then diabetes, then it quotes that figure in a separate paragraph before going on types of amputations.

I have contacted NHS Choices, the source of my information and asked for clarification, the article is about all amputations, so my assumption was that so were the figures quoted. Probably won't get a reply until Monday. One of them is wrong, that's for sure.

Without undertaking any research whatsoever, maybe the issue here is the word "major" used on the NHS web site. It's highly likely that the Mirror's figures include the amputation of the odd toe or two, whereas I would doubt these count as "major" limbs as far as the NHS is concerned. To be certain we would need the NHS to clarify what sort of amputations they classify as "major" and ask for figures on "minor" amputations as well.

 

[graj0]

I'm waiting to hear from NHS Choices, I'm not so worried about major/minor, my father's toe amputation which might be classified as minor led to a six week stay in hospital, so I'm not sure it matters what you call it.
I'm more than happy for people to be made more aware of the problems, but I'm not happy with the scare mongering which then goes on to imply that type II diabetics are diabetic because of obesity, it's not accurate and in no way the whole story.
The figure the papers quote is still 20 a week higher than what NHS Choices says and the NHS Choices figures includes Gangrene, Peripheral Arterial Disease (often through gangrene and smoking), disease, trauma and deformity.
I'll be happy when the NHS provides a breakdown of the causes mentioned. They should really provide a further breakdown and definition of major/minor. I wonder what my dad's 6 week toe amputation counts as, my 120 mile daily round trip to get my mum to visit him nearly killed me, not sure about him or my mother.
Anyone holding their breath?

 

[JAY1JAY1]

Sorry I think diabetes is just the next thing in fashion as far as the papers and the NHS are concerned they have tried there hardest to scare us all with cancer , smoking , colesterol , drinking , obesity and now diabetes and amputation they just need something to put the willies up the general public and justify there existence , hope I haven't upset anyone with this but it's just my thoughts

 

[phoenix]

I'm waiting to hear from NHS Choices, I'm not so worried about major/minor, my father's toe amputation which might be classified as minor led to a six week stay in hospital, so I'm not sure it matters what you call it.
I'm more than happy for people to be made more aware of the problems, but I'm not happy with the scare mongering which then goes on to imply that type II diabetics are diabetic because of obesity, it's not accurate and in no way the whole story.
The figure the papers quote is still 20 a week higher than what NHS Choices says and the NHS Choices figures includes Gangrene, Peripheral Arterial Disease (often through gangrene and smoking), disease, trauma and deformity.
I'll be happy when the NHS provides a breakdown of the causes mentioned. They should really provide a further breakdown and definition of major/minor. I wonder what my dad's 6 week toe amputation counts as, my 120 mile daily round trip to get my mum to visit him nearly killed me, not sure about him or my mother.
Anyone holding their breath?

Figures for minor and major amputations for diabetes here( diabetes audit 2012-13)http://www.hqip.org.uk/assets/NCAPO...plications-and-Mortality-Auditinteractive.pdf
I have another anecdote about minor amputation; my mother had two toes removed on each foot because of rheumatoid arthritis. It had deformed her foot horribly and meant walking was almost impossible, The operation was done as a day patient, she had the community nurses come in to dress it and it wasn't, compared with her other problems, a big deal (she had Parkinson's which was a very big deal). She wasn't diabetic so healing took place normally.

 

[graj0]

Figures for minor and major amputations for diabetes here( diabetes audit 2012-13)http://www.hqip.org.uk/assets/NCAPO...plications-and-Mortality-Auditinteractive.pdf

I get "server not found", maybe maintenance being done on the website. However did find the difference between Major and Minor, from National Diabetes Audit.
Below are common micro-vascular complications inpeople with diabetes:
Major Amputation – surgical removal of the leg above the ankle (usually below, through or above the knee).
Minor Amputation – surgical removal of toes or a part of the foot below the ankle.
Still trying to find numbers though.

 

[graj0]

Thank you Scotty, for lighting the blue touch paper, and then stepping back. I really mean that in a joking manner. It's true to say that I get pretty narked by the rubbish that is printed in the papers, especially when it's seem to be "let's have a poke at diabetics again" time.
Looking at the figures produced by the National Diabetic Audit and I hope they're accurate because somebody gets paid to correlate all the numbers, there are just over 4,000 amputations a year or 80 a week. 30 a week at or below the knee, 50 below the ankle. Well below what the papers say and still very tragic. These figures are for diabetics having complications, not people with complications caused by diabetes.
I'll shut up now, shall I? LOL

 

[MarkE]

We do seem to be target of the month for the papers and TV- which strongly suggests we are on the target range for the foxhunting types in charge, the media being the key propaganda tool these days.

I do wonder how they would find the public reaction, were they to target cancer patients in the same manner?

One could but hope THAT at least would be noticed as a blatant lie!

 

[Type2Guy]

After the traumatic gasp of seeing that posted headline and imagining the statistics are comparable if not worse in the United States, I've hatched a plan to earn enough income to employ a mental health support staff full time to scrub the thought of it from my memory.

 

[Gezzabelle]

After the traumatic gasp of seeing that posted headline and imagining the statistics are comparable if not worse in the United States, I've hatched a plan to earn enough income to employ a mental health support staff full time to scrub the thought of it from my memory.


Typical newspaper talk.....rarely backed up with genuine facts but touching on the truth of the huge increase in people diagnosed with diabetes. The government then jump on the back of it and start planning to tax drinks/foods with high sugar content, thus blaming sugar alone for the rise in numbers which is not of course true as added fat and carbohydrates play a huge roll too....but it is yet another way to install a new stealth tax that won't make a jot of difference.

 

[Croc]

Surely the increase in people diagnosed is just that...people diagnosed. My dad was diagnosed about 2 months before he died of a heart attack 10 years ago. He went to his GP for the only time I knew him to go, for something else. Had he done his usual and bot bothered going to the doctors he'd not have counted.

 

[Gezzabelle]

Surely the increase in people diagnosed is just that...people diagnosed. My dad was diagnosed about 2 months before he died of a heart attack 10 years ago. He went to his GP for the only time I knew him to go, for something else. Had he done his usual and bot bothered going to the doctors he'd not have counted.

That is half the problem....people don't go to the doctors for their annual well person check up which could show the need to make changes in diet and exercise for many of them which could in turn prevent them being diagnosed as diabetic or worse still, not finding out they are until it is way too late. The check up covers all the important things like blood pressure and kidney/liver function and thyroid but so many don't take the opportunity to have a yearly 'mot' check up. I wish I had gone years ago for mine instead of just accepting feeling tired and piling on weight as ''one of things that happens when you get older''