GP Complaints

[graj0]

An offshoot from "Diabetes Distress"

Last comment which might have been going off topic.

Fair enough, we are getting off topic. Assertiveness with GPs is relevant to most things, however. I will just say this - I don't give a rat's backside if a doctor throws their toys out of the pram. They can grow up and explain themselves to the complaints body. They are hired to work for us, remember. My health is too important to be put aside for the sake of some incompetent and/or arrogant doctor.

Your 100% correct, however, in all honesty, do you think that having an attitude (point of view) gets you anywhere. My limited experience of trying to complain about medical staff (the nurses who were working in the ward my mother was in) is that they close ranks quicker than you can blink and start having a go at you, as if things are your fault. I also made a comment about a very rude endocrinologist which was just met with a "he's like that with everyone". I would maintain that complaining about medical staff and expecting a result is difficult. You only have to look at how long it took for Harold Shipman's crimes took to come to light to see that (not sure if outside UK you would have heard about our famous GP, he was killing elderly patients with lethal doses of something because he believed he was doing them a favour).

I wonder if anyone has experience of actually making a formal complaint about a GP and how much grief did it bring them? Did they get labelled "Trouble maker" and do people know that GPs have a code for people written in our notes. The joke one was CFN (comes from Norfolk) but they have others.

 

[CollieBoy]

An offshoot from "Diabetes Distress"

Last comment which might have been going off topic.

Fair enough, we are getting off topic. Assertiveness with GPs is relevant to most things, however. I will just say this - I don't give a rat's backside if a doctor throws their toys out of the pram. They can grow up and explain themselves to the complaints body. They are hired to work for us, remember. My health is too important to be put aside for the sake of some incompetent and/or arrogant doctor.

Your 100% correct, however, in all honesty, do you think that having an attitude (point of view) gets you anywhere. My limited experience of trying to complain about medical staff (the nurses who were working in the ward my mother was in) is that they close ranks quicker than you can blink and start having a go at you, as if things are your fault. I also made a comment about a very rude endocrinologist which was just met with a "he's like that with everyone". I would maintain that complaining about medical staff and expecting a result is difficult. You only have to look at how long it took for Harold Shipman's crimes took to come to light to see that (not sure if outside UK you would have heard about our famous GP, he was killing elderly patients with lethal doses of something because he believed he was doing them a favour).

I wonder if anyone has experience of actually making a formal complaint about a GP and how much grief did it bring them? Did they get labelled "Trouble maker" and do people know that GPs have a code for people written in our notes. The joke one was CFN (comes from Norfolk) but they have others.

The one we had in paediatric dentistry was MIAB (Mother Is A B*tch)-

 

[CarbsRok]

Your 100% correct, however, in all honesty, do you think that having an attitude (point of view) gets you anywhere. My limited experience of trying to complain about medical staff (the nurses who were working in the ward my mother was in) is that they close ranks quicker than you can blink and start having a go at you, as if things are your fault. I also made a comment about a very rude endocrinologist which was just met with a "he's like that with everyone". I would maintain that complaining about medical staff and expecting a result is difficult.

I agree with this 100%
Last year a consultant made a misdiagnoses, which if she had carried out the treatment would have cost me a fair amount of vision. 3 other consultants and 6 opticians could see no problem at all and nothing on the scans either. But as soon as the complaint went in, it was closed ranks. I now refuse point blank to even set foot in the eye clinic. That particular consultant still stands by her diagnoses and is still in a job, her work was not even reviewed! I did ask how many people had been given unnecessary treatment and how many had had their vision affected by it. Stoney silence met this enquiry.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

I agree with this 100%
Last year a consultant made a misdiagnoses, which if she had carried out the treatment would have cost me a fair amount of vision. 3 other consultants and 6 opticians could see no problem at all and nothing on the scans either. But as soon as the complaint went in, it was closed ranks. I now refuse point blank to even set foot in the eye clinic. That particular consultant still stands by her diagnoses and is still in a job, her work was not even reviewed! I did ask how many people had been given unnecessary treatment and how many had had their vision affected by it. Stoney silence met this enquiry.

Did you make your complaint using the processes outlined here?:
http://www.nhs.uk/choiceintheNHS/Rightsandpledges/complaints/Pages/NHScomplaints.aspx

Is there another eye clinic you can attend?

 

[AndBreathe]

I agree with this 100%
Last year a consultant made a misdiagnoses, which if she had carried out the treatment would have cost me a fair amount of vision. 3 other consultants and 6 opticians could see no problem at all and nothing on the scans either. But as soon as the complaint went in, it was closed ranks. I now refuse point blank to even set foot in the eye clinic. That particular consultant still stands by her diagnoses and is still in a job, her work was not even reviewed! I did ask how many people had been given unnecessary treatment and how many had had their vision affected by it. Stoney silence met this enquiry.

You could consider a Freedom of Information Act request: https://www.gov.uk/make-a-freedom-of-information-request/the-freedom-of-information-act , although you might only get the Consultant's success rate, as opposed to your real cocnern about misdiagnosis leading to a poor outcome.

There is also a list of released enquiries, but it doesn't look too easy to interrogate: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications?keywords=&publication_filter_option=foi-releases&topics[]=all&departments

Just edited to say, the above enquiries could avoid the personal confrontation

 

[graj0]

The General Medical Council's opinion is that doctor's are all allowed "off days" and that it is only those doctors who persistently fails to comply with the standards identified in the the GMC Handbook Good Medical Practice (GMP) are investigated further.

It's nice to have a complaints procedure, but even the NHS say "Most issues can be resolved without you having to make a formal complaint". Still, CarbsRok is past that stage.

I may be alone in my opinion, but I'm not filled with confidence when using any complaints procedure. Unrelated to the NHS but The Met Police is still a large organisation. My father made a formal complaint about the police intervention in my mother's care after a fall. They spent 8 months investigating what happened and interviewing the three members of staff on duty at the time (night shift) only to say there was no evidence to say she'd been harmed by anybody. In the meantime the home had to be paid despite the police insisting she didn't return until they finished their investigations. She was placed in a council home where they sedated everyone so they didn't even speak. Poor old mum passed away last June and the complaint is still being dealt with.

Maybe that's the plan, delay complaints long enough and the complainant will pass away.

Sorry gone off the rails a bit, I just don't have much confidence in complaints procedures generally, they're just there to make the "customer" think somebody cares. What a bitter old cynic I am. LOL

 

[ButtterflyLady]

Yes, very bitter. I have more faith in legal systems. Sunlight is the best disinfectant, and when there is a serious issue and someone fights hard enough and long enough, the competent, ethical members of a profession will do the right thing. The alternative is not worth it for them.

 

[graj0]

I have relatives in Auckland and Christchurch and friends in Hamilton, I have visited twice and look forward to my next visit in a year or so, I Skype my elderly relative in Auckland every couple of weeks and I keep in touch with my friend in Hamilton fairly regularly. My only reason for mentioning all that is that in my limited knowledge of the NZ way of life, it is, in many ways, much better than the UK. We're comparing apples and oranges to a certain extent, especially complaints procedures.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

I have relatives in Auckland and Christchurch and friends in Hamilton, I have visited twice and look forward to my next visit in a year or so, I Skype my elderly relative in Auckland every couple of weeks and I keep in touch with my friend in Hamilton fairly regularly. My only reason for mentioning all that is that in my limited knowledge of the NZ way of life, it is, in many ways, much better than the UK. We're comparing apples and oranges to a certain extent, especially complaints procedures.

Despite living in a different country, I have a fair amount of knowledge of health complaint procedures in the UK and in several other countries. I don't like to refer to my professional background when I'm writing on forums but let's just say I know in detail what a complaints system is meant to be like, and how professional registration and discipline systems work. The difference from country to country are marginal.

If there was no complaints system then health care would be like the wild west. Only a fraction of incidents are ever reported, because of many reasons such as people's inherent dislike of raising issues, and bad experiences doing so in the past.

If a person is patronised by a doctor or a serious clinical mistake is made, then I think the best course of action is to change doctors then make a complaint so the issues are followed up for the sake of other patients. The complainant never has to see the doctor again and the complaints body is accountable to them for finding resolution. There are also appeal stages if the person is not happy about the way the complaint was handled.

I guess it would be fair to say that because of my work background, I am passionate about complaints systems and the good they can do. So my attitude tends to be - don't sit around complaining about poor treatment, tell those who can do something about it. People who do this type of work relish the opportunity to hold providers to account, and they have compassion for patients and families who have been wronged.

 

[donnellysdogs]

Sorry.. I disagree with moving GP and then complaining...

All GPs have to have a complaints procedure in place and they have to report on these qty of complaints as part of their targets. Our Practice Manager also lists them for our PPG (not giving names or details) so that we can see that our GP Practice is avidly trying to respond and reduce the complaints.

The Practice Manager has to respond.

There is also NHS Choices website if ine chooses to use this system that is open and visible to the public. If choosing that method and you wish the Practice to be able to look in to the matter then you should not remain anonymous. If you choose this route you can remain anonymous but you can expect a reply of something similar to this "if you were to have chosen to give us the opportunity to look in to this matter, we would" or something similar.

Also you could take your concerns to your PPG that all GP Practices have. They cannot act on individual complaints though. However they could raise it as a general concern if other patients amongst PPG members etc had concerns.

This is only regarding GP practices.

Consultants are different but you could report to the GMC for them to investigate.

I know of one patient that should have been given 10 lasers for his eye. His partner wondered why he had been in the treatment room so long.. He had been given 100!! Long story and not a good outcome via the NHS complaints system but better outcomes are gained by going direct to the GMC.....

 

[donnellysdogs]

I have made a formal complaint about a GP to a Practice Manager and was taken very seriously and matter was dealt with fairly and GP apologised and said a lesson had been learnt... I have never been dealt with horribly etc since my complaint. In fact the opposite. The GPs are wonderful to me. My complaint was concerning and I know that my Practice do not see complaints as bad.... They are thorough but they do get some that are not really complaints...

 

[ButtterflyLady]

Sorry.. I disagree with moving GP and then complaining...

All GPs have to have a complaints procedure in place and they have to report on these qty of complaints as part of their targets. Our Practice Manager also lists them for our PPG (not giving names or details) so that we can see that our GP Practice is avidly trying to respond and reduce the complaints.

The Practice Manager has to respond.

There is also NHS Choices website if ine chooses to use this system that is open and visible to the public. If choosing that method and you wish the Practice to be able to look in to the matter then you should not remain anonymous. If you choose this route you can remain anonymous but you can expect a reply of something similar to this "if you were to have chosen to give us the opportunity to look in to this matter, we would" or something similar.

Also you could take your concerns to your PPG that all GP Practices have. They cannot act on individual complaints though. However they could raise it as a general concern if other patients amongst PPG members etc had concerns.

This is only regarding GP practices.

Consultants are different but you could report to the GMC for them to investigate.

I know of one patient that should have been given 10 lasers for his eye. His partner wondered why he had been in the treatment room so long.. He had been given 100!! Long story and not a good outcome via the NHS complaints system but better outcomes are gained by going direct to the GMC.....

I think it depends on the circumstances. I was responding to grajo's posts about doctors closing ranks, and being even more disrespectful to him afterwards, and complaints going nowhere. It sounded to me like he would be very reluctant to complain at all, so I was showing him that there is a way to minimise fallout on oneself. I wasn't suggesting he complain anonymously, because that makes it hard for the complaints people to do anything.

I have a great relationship with my GP and we've had conversations where I constructively and respectfully expressed my feelings about something that happened and she took it on board and apologised and we worked together to find ways to improve things.

Sometimes where this is not possible, then, because of the inherent power imbalance between HCP and patient, patients need outside support in order to get taken seriously. This is why governments invest in complaints bodies.

Complaints procedures usually offer a stepped process where its best to talk to the HCP directly, and if you dont want to then you can contact their manager, or local committee, or the complaints body. The NZ body has the goal of resolving complaints as close as possible to the source wherever possible. It also provides free advocates to help patients navigate the process.