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Weight Lifting, Endos, Muscle Mass, German Volume Training GVT

I agree with Neemo.

Ultimately, moving large weight with lower repetitions will increase overall mass.

Look at how a sprinter is built vs. a marathon runner.
Another comparison is to compare a semi truck to a Formula 1 car.

When I'm training for all out strength I'm a big fan of 5(sets) x 3(rep) workouts.
Anything more than 10 reps starts to become cardio.

Of note: while I don't compete anymore, I squatted 675 lbs at 17 years old at 210 lbs body weight.
 
TorqPenderloin said:
I agree with Neemo.

Ultimately, moving large weight with lower repetitions will increase overall mass.

Look at how a sprinter is built vs. a marathon runner.
Another comparison is to compare a semi truck to a Formula 1 car.

When I'm training for all out strength I'm a big fan of 5(sets) x 3(rep) workouts.
Anything more than 10 reps starts to become cardio.

Of note: while I don't compete anymore, I squatted 675 lbs at 17 years old at 210 lbs body weight.
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675 is a solid lift!! Don't even want to know what that feels like on the spine - can imagine it's a workout just unracking it.

I'm more into aesthetics and overall fitness now, those 1rep maxes take their toll.
 
Neemo said:
675 is a solid lift!! Don't even want to know what that feels like on the spine - can imagine it's a workout just unracking it.

I'm more into aesthetics and overall fitness now, those 1rep maxes take their toll.
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I'll have back problems for the rest of my life as a result of my powerlifting days (Tried to come back from an injury too soon and herniated my L4/L5).

I agree, there's more to life than a 1RM. After my recent type 1 diagnoses and having lost 15-20 lbs of muscle this year, I've targeted my workouts at 6-8 reps per set. That seems to be a nice balance between overall strength and having efficient working lean mass.
 
LOOOL I squat 50 kg and think I'm all that! I forgot to mention that I was told a full GVT for 6 weeks only.
 
Yep also a long time lifter (33 years) the first 13 a bit sketchy (parties girls etc):) but just coming up to 20 years solid and as some previous posters have done I have used all sorts of stuff over the years.....

I was told when diagnosed to not lift to failure or push to much , so try to leave a couple of reps in the tank these days...........

GVT is good but harder than it looks and is purely a bulking routine, other things also work well ie drop sets rest pause etc etc..............

Best advice I was every given was " they are all tools in your toolbox , just use what you need"


I am a member of this forum https://www.hardgainer.com/forums/activity.php feel free to pop over, it was set up to follow the work of this guy (Stuart McRobert) https://www.hardgainer.com/20-tips-for-terrific-bodybuilding-workouts/ but has evolved over the years to include all sorts of lifting, but stil sticks to the ethos of geneticically normal drug free training..and its unoficial motto is "Do what works for you"


Personally I keep it simple these days 3-4 days a week @ 45mins and do 4 x 8 for most stuff but 5 x 5 for the big compound stuff,

My shoulder is ******** from years of heavy benching so have swapped to the old school of strict standing overhead presses, which you would think is hard for the shoulders but actually is beneficial for them..............:)
 
I attached a picture for some motivation (and to prove I'm not full of it). In that shot I'm only doing 625 (I do have pics of my 675 lift too). 10 years later and I'd be lucky to squat 450 now, but my personal bests at 17 years/~210lbs body weight were: 675 squat, 315 bench, 575 deadlift.

In the end, moving heavy weights (with good form) will build muscle. There's no set way to do things and everyone's body is different. In fact, there's plenty of evidence to suggest that altering your workouts (reps and sets) will help you combat a plateau.
 

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TorqPenderloin said:
I agree, there's more to life than a 1RM. After my recent type 1 diagnoses and having lost 15-20 lbs of muscle this year, I've targeted my workouts at 6-8 reps per set. That seems to be a nice balance between overall strength and having efficient working lean mass.
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Gotta agree there , I think Vince Gironda loved 8 reps as well, but I have a real fondness for the 5x5 system, made popular by Bill Starr’s “The Strongest Shall Survive: Strength Training for Football” , tho it had been used by many before that including Reg Park....

The thinking behind it is that anything below 4 reps is strength biased and anything above 6 is hypertrophy, so 5x5 is a simple way to do it........


Starting strength has proved very popular over the years...................

This is a good variation/option for a beginner IMO................




Mark Rippetoe’s “Starting Strength” Novice 5×5 Routine:

Workout A
Squat – 3×5
Bench Press – 3×5
Deadlift – 1×5



Workout B
Squat – 3×5
Overhead Press – 3×5
Power Clean – 3×5

All the sets shown (3×5) are all working or “live” sets, not counting warmups sets. Additional supplementary exercises can be added, but very sparingly. In the case of arms, the biceps/triceps already get enough growth stimulation from heavy presses, rows and chins. Abdominal work can be used as a cool-down. Grip work can be added to the end as needed too. Workouts A and B alternate on 3 non-consecutive days per week. Proof of concept that coach Rippetoe’s novice routine works isn’t only found by the five star rating that “Starting Strength” receives regularly on Amazon.com, but also in numerous threads like this one on the Net.

More proof that these variants work on the vast majority of the population can be found on the excellent “StrongLifts” website which features its own variant of Bill Starr’s 5×5. (note: the site also has a vibrant community found on their forums)
 
Well I want to add that this morning I tested (for a FBG) and came up with 110mg/dl or usually known as 6.1mmol. ! I am thrilled. I started doing this GVT with doing weights one evening then sprint cardio on the following evening on my Schwinn Airdyne.
Airdyne-For-Sale.jpg

What I've found is that whilst the cardio sprints are good, I have too much of the look of a middle distance runner and not enough of the Usain Bolt. I also sense too that in the past I've working out on a "Maintenance level" of exercise and with out putting in the extra effort of GVT every evening I'd not have the 6.1 mmols reading that I got this morning.

While I've never been clinically depressed dealing with T2DM, it can as most of us know, be overwhelming. So to get the confirmation that FBG this morning after a week's worth of workouts is inspiring. I do believe that some folks have the Newcastle diet have lost a good deal of weight yet still see diabetic numbers. This GVT might definitely help their on going battle against T2DM. I know I am thrilled this morning with my numbers being much improved..
 
So far I don't see too much interest in my experiments with my body and its blood sugars. However I will share that my FBGs are trending downwards.

Since 3rd of October here's my FBGs

110 mg/dl
110 mg/dl
118 mg/dl (not sure what happened here perhaps it was a bad night of sleep?)
109 mg/dl
This 109 number is the best number I've had in a long while.

Every evening I am doing about an hours worth of GVT after dinner following the protocol set out here

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/acti...aining-regime-for-increasing-muscle-size.html

I hope that this helps everyone. If my FBGs can become 9% better then that is an un-diabetic number! Yea!
 
Living-by-the-beach said:
So far I don't see too much interest in my experiments with my body and its blood sugars. However I will share that my FBGs are trending downwards.
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I wouldn't say that we aren't interested in your experiences, but I think I may have misinterpretted your goals for this thread.

I realize now that you were creating a log of your progress. The thread title caused me to think the thread was a discussion about increasing lean mass.

Best of luck in your endeavors
 
TorqPenderloin said:
I wouldn't say that we aren't interested in your experiences, but I think I may have misinterpretted your goals for this thread.

I realize now that you were creating a log of your progress. The thread title caused me to think the thread was a discussion about increasing lean mass.

Best of luck in your endeavors
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@TorqPenderloin

Thank you for your posting. I am not sure why exactly I am posting about GVT other than like many here I am looking for the solution to my T2DM. What has amazed me is that with 160,000 participants on this blogosphere I was the first to mention GVT here on www.diabetes.co.uk. Professor Taylor's work has inspired me to lose 7 BMI measures. I now have a BMI of 23.5 (or so) but having lost 60lbs of weight and still not found my "Personal Fat Threshold" or PFT as Prof. Taylor has called it (& thus remission of my T2DM). I have been searching for the "Missing link".

Some folks who get a prompt and early diagnosis of T2DM have been fortunate to go from a BMI of 30+ to a BMI of 26 or so and find remission in their FBGs. I have not. I figured I'd lost enough weight with 60lbs and I've been lost in a world of information where even good endocrinologists don't have the critical pieces of information that a patient needs to combat their T2DM. With the progression of my FBG's I sense a small light at the end of the diabetic tunnel for my own journey with T2. So yes and no this isn't per se a blog within a blog, but more about what is working for me and that I'd like to share with everyone what I am discovering.. I hope that this explanation makes sense..

LBTBeach
 
Wow.












Edited to remove offensive comment.
 
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Being relatively new in these forums there is something I haven't sen mentioned. I apologize in advance if it is posted somewhere but I haven't et had time to look through all of the forums poss about weight lifting. I have been lifting, although not continuoulsy, since 1966. I have worked out as a number of folks have for power / strength, body building, and mostly in these later years for overall health. Having recently been diagnosed T2, I am looking to lifting to maintain my muscle mass. At my age, 66 next Jan. it is a bit harder to do the workouts, still the end results are worth the effort for anyone whose health will allow them to workout with weights.

The one thing, I mentioned I had not noticed is a warning that the GVT and the other multi-set / multi-rep workouts are not for rank beginners. Having used Vince Gironda's 8x8 workout many years ago, I can tell you that this kind of workout is extremely hard. So I would offer a word of caution to anyone thinking of starting a weight lifting program. If you have never lifted before or if it has been a number of years since you have lifted, start slow and work toward the intensity of the GVT type training.
 
ACCobra said:
Being relatively new in these forums there is something I haven't sen mentioned. I apologize in advance if it is posted somewhere but I haven't et had time to look through all of the forums poss about weight lifting. I have been lifting, although not continuoulsy, since 1966. I have worked out as a number of folks have for power / strength, body building, and mostly in these later years for overall health. Having recently been diagnosed T2, I am looking to lifting to maintain my muscle mass. At my age, 66 next Jan. it is a bit harder to do the workouts, still the end results are worth the effort for anyone whose health will allow them to workout with weights.

The one thing, I mentioned I had not noticed is a warning that the GVT and the other multi-set / multi-rep workouts are not for rank beginners. Having used Vince Gironda's 8x8 workout many years ago, I can tell you that this kind of workout is extremely hard. So I would offer a word of caution to anyone thinking of starting a weight lifting program. If you have never lifted before or if it has been a number of years since you have lifted, start slow and work toward the intensity of the GVT type training.
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@ACCobra

Your points are valid and well taken. I had not lifted in years either when I became diagnose T2DM. However I started working out and having lost a good deal of weight my Endo and my friendly dialysis specialist nurse said put on some weight to burn more sugars. Having being diagnosed 20 months ago I've lost 60lbs but I'd toned up but not put on significant muscle. I bitched at my trainer http://www.philjeremypersonaltraining.com/ what was I doing wrong? It was he that came up with GVT would be the solution to my problem.

I had, prior to starting GVT, being doing some weights at the gym but basically I had to up my game plan and instead of doing a maintenance level of weight lifting I had to become more aggressive to get in front of my condition. Within days of doing GVT my FBGs have become more steady and range in the 109-126 mg/dl range. What I've noticed also is that my midriff is becoming leaner. I see more muscles each and every week.

The one most important factor to note too is the Max rep and the 60% (or so ) formula. I am unsure what I can max bench press. Yet when doing GVT bench presses I only lift 60lbs currently so I fit in 10 sets of 10 /(or 12). It is my understanding that at the 99th or 100th rep I should be exhausted to the point where I couldn't do a 101st rep (as in 10 x 10 + 1= 101st rep)

Based on what experience you have had in the past, your lifting weights may considerably heavier than the 60lbs I am currently using for my bench presses. We should also too remember that if we can lift the weight safely and not hurt ourselves then weightlifting is beneficial for both increased bone density and muscle accrual. I am told that muscle growth helps with insulin resistance. So while I may never become a champion power-lifter I am grateful to my trainer for getting me feeling better. & Yes since I've started doing GVT I'm feeling much better these days.. Off to the gym in about 10 minutes..
 
Living-by-the-beach said:
The story so far of my journey with T2DM is that I've lost 60lbs of weight but no signs of remission. I eat good food & not too much. I avoid bread pasta rice and potatoes religiously. I cycle every day & lift weights every other day. My current BMI is 23 or thereabouts.

So over the last couple of weeks my Endo & a friend who's a Registered Nurse have been at me to put on some muscle mass to burn more glucose. So eventually I called my buddy Phil Jeremy http://trailjunkie-phil.blogspot.fr/ as to why after at least a year of weight training I am not seeing increased muscle mass. He explained that of the two types of exercise Aerobic and Anaerobic I am doing too much of the former and not the latter + aerobic (cycling) exercise promotes lithe bodies and not muscled body types. Its a muscled body (weight lifting) that I need to be rid of T2DM.

Phil also told me that the quickest way to put on muscle mass was via what is known in the fitness industry as GVT or German Volume Training. Whilst I am not expert I hope I've shared enough knowledge and that with the following link from the Daily Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/acti...aining-regime-for-increasing-muscle-size.html

should help us all. I'll be off to the gym later on this evening after I've had dinner for my first GVT..
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Hold on a moment. I read the article. Qualifications: I'm an ex body buiilder and Biology graduate. I know the science. I am not a personal trainer. The only personal trainers I have ever seen in a gym try to get their clients to do weight based exercise whilst standing on one leg or worse, whilst sitting on one of those giant exercise balls. Stop and think. We live in a world built on physics. Would you live in a house which only had foundations on one side? No!, so why do barbell curls or shoulder presses standing on one leg. The wear and tear on your spine is ridiculous. Take a look at how osteopaths exercise!!
I have been fortunate enough to train with some of the best bodybuilders in the world. (Platz, Beckles, Fuller, Francoise Chung, Andy Searle, David Gouder etc etc. I never had my own training partner so when the pro's flew in from the USA and needed a training partner - I was the man. The list reads like a who's who from the 80's, BUT there are only two body builders who cracked the code - the first was Mike Mentzer (look him up). He was great but he couldn't quite get the message across - at least I never understood it, and then there was Dorian Yates and he nailed it. After more than 20 years of training I switched to his methods - warm up properly - and then one set to failure - I put on 3 stone in one year - clean! I went from 16 stone to 19 stone in my late 30's. I wasn't competing as a body builder, so without the strict diet of chicken rice and brocolli I came out as stocky (like a strong man athlete but smaller - at 5ft 8 instead of 6ft 6.)
Think about this: Muscles respond to a stimulus in order to grow. For increased growth, you need an increased stimulus. If you are truly going to apply maximum effort, you can only apply it for a short period of time (one single set to failure - literally until you can do no more) If you have the energy to do 10 sets of 10 - you must be holding back something in order to do the second set etc etc.
Max effort can only be applied for a short period of time. Proof: stack up a 100m runner against a marathon runner and tell me who has the most muscle mass: Bolt or Farrah?
Dorian Yates wrote a book called Blood and Guts - quite possibly the most logical book ever written on training to build muscle. Volume training has done the rounds over the last 30-40 years - I've been around that long. Growth does not take place in the gym. It takes place outside. Whilst you are in the gym, create the storm and get out, don't hang around and think you are building muscle by doing more. (If anything, all volume training will do is increase your vascularity - now do you want to build muscle mass or harden your veins?
 
I figured I'd post an update to this thread as I've been mostly following this posting on the Daily Telegraph

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/acti...aining-regime-for-increasing-muscle-size.html

where I've been following a rotating three day routine of strenuous weight lifting AKA German Volume Training (GVT). This morning I did my FBG and got a 103 mg/dl number, or a 5.7 mmols number. Yesterday for lunch I had Turkey with Stuffing followed by apple pie and whipped cream (there was no sugar in the whipped cream) and as the gym was closed last night I quickly got on my bicycle and rode about 10 - 12 miles post the late lunch.

Looking back on my chart of my FBGs I've been bouncing hard off of 110mg/dl number 6.1mmols number since the 3rd of October. I'd embarked on my GVT program starting the 26th of September. One happy camper here at the beach. I hope that I continue in my progress to join the many of the diabetics in remission here on this site..
 
Hi everyone I have been recently diagnosed with type 2 but I have also been suffering from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fybromyagia . I have just joined a gym in order to try and rebuild my fitness and stamina as I have become a lot weaker lately and have loss of muscle on my legs any suggestions on what I should be doing please
 
Garyfx said:
Hi everyone I have been recently diagnosed with type 2 but I have also been suffering from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and Fybromyagia . I have just joined a gym in order to try and rebuild my fitness and stamina as I have become a lot weaker lately and have loss of muscle on my legs any suggestions on what I should be doing please
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@Garyfx
I'm not an expert but I know GVT has been working hard for my diabetes. Getting into a gym and lifting even moderate weights will help out no end.. Do some research where you are located and find a trainer with a good reputation and suggest to him that you'd like to become leaner and healthier.. It can only help your overall conditions..
 
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