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Downsides of low carb diet

A slightly tangential point on relapse: it has happened to me in the past (before T2D diagnosis) and it's not a pretty picture! There is nothing worse* for the body composition and health in general that eating both high fat and high carb at the same time. If you have got used to the creamy mouthfeel of fat, then add back in some carby "treats" such as croissants, garlic bread, ice cream and cake, it's the worst of all worlds. I firmly believe that some people do well on low fat diets, and some do well on low carb. Based on all my reading and personal experience, a lot of people with T2D and similar metabolic disorders fit in the second group.

* Except actual poison, I should imagine
 
You have to deal with a fair number of people who combine being evangelical about their diet with being combative toward anyone who even demurs slightly. That seems to be the main one.
Second, it's an exclusion diet. Exclusion diets have negative social effects as well as positive and negative biological effects.
Third, if you're "fair, fat and forty", gallstones threaten.
Fourth, it avoids triggering your latent insulin resistance but it doesn't actually reverse it, contrary to some claims.
 
Many people DO tell themselves (and others) that they are eating low carb or LCHF when it's patently obvious that they are NOT following the guidelines.

If you read www.dietdoctor.com/LCHF - and people often use the photos on that page to advise newbies - it says nothing about eating Lidl rolls or toast.

It seems to me that the majority of people on the forum come here with newly diagnosed mild T2DM or pre-diabetes and within a few months of eating lower carb are able to ditch the meds having normalised their BG and that's GREAT. Many lose a large amount of weight by low carbing and that's also fantastic. It does take effort.

We seem to hear less, from people who ate a moderate carb diet and who still have many symptoms or who started off by losing weight and normalizing BG by moderating carb intake but ended up on medication.

We also hear less from people who have pretty severe T2DM and struggle. It must be pretty galling for them, to be told how to eat, by people who have toast and go out for a curry.

In his book 'Waist Disposal', Dr John Briffa advocates giving up sweeteners and sweet things generally rather than trying to substitute lower carb sweet things. He says (and I totally agree) that if you don't lose the taste for them, they are always there to trip you up.

If this was a forum for alcoholics, and you were trying to give up your addiction, would it be helpful for forum members to talk about going into the pub for a shandy or comparing low alcohol bottled beers ?

Dr Jason Fung says that medicine treats the symptoms of T2DM not the cause, which is insulin resistance.

Professor Tim Noakes is Emeritus Professor of Exercise Science & Sports Medicine at Cape Town University and is a qualified medical doctor. He also has T2DM as it runs in his family. He has said that unless you're eating under 25g carbs per day, diabetes can worsen.

It was stated on Twitter in a discussion between LCHF types and doctors that reducing carbs increases insulin resistance. Certainly I've seen posts on Mark Sissons' website from non-diabetic posters, saying that unless they refeed with carbs they fail OGTT because of high FBG.

Professor Noakes says that if people eat less than 25g a day of carbs and lay off the sweet things, after a few months their brains stop searching for sugar.

Doctors argue whether normal BG numbers signify a cure, control or reversal. IMO if you're having to eat very low carb, then you're not curing diabetes.

Professor Noakes says that insulin resistance is in the genes and I guess if true, that might explain why some obese people get T2DM diabetes, why others don't and why some thinner people also develop it.

I don't see another alternative to very low carb for me personally. My BG doesn't warrant insulin or a pump or even Byetta and neither does my BMI. I have to accept that some food makes me sick, in the same way that my husband accepts that gluten will make him ill.

If low carb worsens insulin resistance then well since I hardly eat any carbs and only moderate protein, I don't think it will be too much of a problem.
 
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You have to deal with a fair number of people who combine being evangelical about their diet with being combative toward anyone who even demurs slightly. That seems to be the main one.
Second, it's an exclusion diet. Exclusion diets have negative social effects as well as positive and negative biological effects.
Third, if you're "fair, fat and forty", gallstones threaten.
Fourth, it avoids triggering your latent insulin resistance but it doesn't actually reverse it, contrary to some claims.

That's absolutely true and for the most part, I don't blame them. Many people are proud of their success and many people have made significant improvements in their health by maintaining a LCHF diet.

Then, someone like me comes along and "challenges" (not to be misinterpreted as "disagrees with") their opinions and it can be difficult to have an objective discussion.

I rarely claim that someone is flat out wrong, but I do ask people loaded questions and challenge them to justify their opinions. I've been posting on Internet forums for 15 years and see how easy it is for biases to develop. My only goal is to seek the truth (and help others seek it) about diabetes and especially what is still unknown.
 
OK, so here are the down sides of low carb:
  • If, as a T2, you go seriously low-carb, you may end up coming off all diabetic medications and may, therefore lose your right to free prescriptions.
  • If you are carrying a bit of excess weight, you will probably lose it, so there is the expense of all those new clothes.
  • When you are obviously blooming with health, it will be more difficult to "throw a sicky" when you want to get out of something.
  • You need to start saving more money into your pension scheme, because you are now running the risk of living longer.
  • You may feel and look sexier. This can lead to all sorts of time wasting activity.
That's my contribution.
Sally
Haa that's brilliant love it
 
Following on from the previous post.

If any newbie, wether whatever type except some exclusions, T1, etc. had a conundrum like I have and many others who have RH, (reactive hypoglycaemia) then the answer to all diabetic problems would be very low carb and it would be restrictive in the sense that the baddies, ( medium to high carbs and all sugars), would not be part of the diet!
The difference that a very low carb lifestyle has had on me has been truly life changing!
It is because low carb diet gives people a free choice to eat a few carbs that is often the downfall because of the constant cravings of carbs that is prevalent in a diet of that nature.
It is also true that posters revert to more carbs because they believe that they have done enough to be feeling better, but don't need to be restrictive as before, so because they are feeling better, the more carbs they eat.
This has much to do with modern living, convenience and budget. And if you have a family cooking separate meals for yourself is a little too far sometimes.
It is absurd that and it's my opinion that some posters boast about how many carbs they can eat but is it a delusion or someone fishing for reaction?
If you had to very low carb, like I do, how many could actually do it?
Eat to be in ketosis permanently or feel ill all the time?
That's what I and my other RH ers have to contend with every mealtime (6-8 times a day!!!)
 
Before oral meds, people with T2DM were always always put on low carbohydrate diets, that's why it's so crazy that the medical establishment says now that there's no long term data on safety.

I eat 20 - 30g of carbs a day, my carbs usually only come from veg and dairy products (other than milk).
 
Type 1 here who seriously low carbs. Downsides:
No more roller coaster sugars - shame cos it was me fave at the fair
Highs are now 8s or very infrequently 9s when trying something new- shame cos I love living dangerously
Lows are now high 3s - shame cos I loved that out of control feeling, cheap version of drunk
Can go to bed with blood sugars of 6 and know I'm not dropping in my sleep because low carb, small amount of insulin, small mistakes - shame cos..........
 
OK, so here are the down sides of low carb:
  • If, as a T2, you go seriously low-carb, you may end up coming off all diabetic medications and may, therefore lose your right to free prescriptions.
  • If you are carrying a bit of excess weight, you will probably lose it, so there is the expense of all those new clothes.
  • When you are obviously blooming with health, it will be more difficult to "throw a sicky" when you want to get out of something.
  • You need to start saving more money into your pension scheme, because you are now running the risk of living longer.
  • You may feel and look sexier. This can lead to all sorts of time wasting activity.
That's my contribution.
Sally
LOL
 
it's my opinion that some posters boast about how many carbs they can eat but is it a delusion or someone fishing for reaction?
In Sheri Colberg's Diabetic Athlete, the very first case study is of a triathlete whose insulin:carb ratio for breakfast is 0.5:125. After breakfast and training, he eats again at 9:30 - 130g carbohydrate. That's his mid-morning snack. He also eats power bars, lunch and dinner.
I don't think he does that because he's fishing for a reaction. I don't think Colberg writes about it because he's fishing for a reaction. I don't think people offer alternatives here because they are fishing for reactions. I think they offer alternatives because they have different experiences, different strategies, and because they are concerned that a single viewpoint should not obliterate all others on a discussion forum. There are other strategies than LCHF. One of them is LFHC, plus exercise.
 
...........In his book 'Waist Disposal', Dr John Briffa advocates giving up sweeteners and sweet things generally rather than trying to substitute lower carb sweet things. He says (and I totally agree) that if you don't lose the taste for them, they are always there to trip you up.
If this was a forum for alcoholics, and you were trying to give up your addiction, would it be helpful for forum members to talk about going into the pub for a shandy or comparing low alcohol bottled beers ?............

To be honest, most of us are diabetics on here.
So I can't really say I'm addicted to diabetes, but I do seem to be stuck with it.
 
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In Sheri Colberg's Diabetic Athlete, the very first case study is of a triathlete whose insulin:carb ratio for breakfast is 0.5:125. After breakfast and training, he eats again at 9:30 - 130g carbohydrate. That's his mid-morning snack. He also eats power bars, lunch and dinner.
I don't think he does that because he's fishing for a reaction. I don't think Colberg writes about it because he's fishing for a reaction. I don't think people offer alternatives here because they are fishing for reactions. I think they offer alternatives because they have different experiences, different strategies, and because they are concerned that a single viewpoint should not obliterate all others on a discussion forum. There are other strategies than LCHF. One of them is LFHC, plus exercise.
I agree with you totally, I do not believe there is only one approach simply because we are all unique in our conditions.
For T1s and some others that is fine and I wouldn't dream of disagreeing with them.
But there have been instances from the other way around.
I still believe it is illogical to high carb with any hormonal imbalance disorders.
I have to very low carb because there isn't yet an alternative unless I would want to live in permanent hypo hell!
It has done wonders for my health and as I keep saying never been fitter or healthier.
All my life signs are in the normal range, including cholesterol, blood pressure, liver function and any other symptom you care to mention.
It has been my experience that has given me my knowledge and an understanding of what my condition would do to me, if I'm not in control!
It is the only 'diet' that has worked for me!

Modern sports men and women are now adopting a very low carb lifestyle as the need for recarbing or overloading on carbs is having adverse effects on performance and abilities.
I'm not to post names or links (not that I can!) But it is now all over the internet that performance levels are greatly enhanced whilst in ketosis, including me. I can now work harder and longer than young healthy men.

I live in ketosis, and I wouldn't dream of telling you what to do!
But I would have you think about it, if the need ever came about!
 
In answer to the OP again. Something I forgot: LCHF is relatively expensive.

I totally disagree!
That is a myth.
I am on a small wage and small pension and if you shop for natural foods and cook yourself, then it can be cheaper!
There has been a thread about this recently but I can't do the link thingy!
 
I totally disagree!
That is a myth.
I am on a small wage and small pension and if you shop for natural foods and cook yourself, then it can be cheaper!
There has been a thread about this recently but I can't do the link thingy!

Cheaper that what though?
 
I don't agree with the idea that a T1 or a T2 cannot comment on ways of living with/treating each other's condition. There may be more risk of getting it wrong, but to me it's quite reasonable to make comments based on the comments others have made, or scientific literature the person has read. If it was necessary to have a condition before commenting on it, how could medicine be carried out? Doctors cannot possibly be required to have all the illnesses they treat.

Lived experiences can provide valuable insights, but they are not the only way to share and gain knowledge.
 
That's absolutely true and for the most part, I don't blame them. Many people are proud of their success and many people have made significant improvements in their health by maintaining a LCHF diet.

Then, someone like me comes along and "challenges" (not to be misinterpreted as "disagrees with") their opinions and it can be difficult to have an objective discussion.

I rarely claim that someone is flat out wrong, but I do ask people loaded questions and challenge them to justify their opinions. I've been posting on Internet forums for 15 years and see how easy it is for biases to develop. My only goal is to seek the truth (and help others seek it) about diabetes and especially what is still unknown.
I so agree with what you have said here.
 
I totally disagree!
That is a myth.
I am on a small wage and small pension and if you shop for natural foods and cook yourself, then it can be cheaper!
There has been a thread about this recently but I can't do the link thingy!
You're right in that it can be cheaper, but IMO that depends on a number of factors such as cooking skill/interest, and physical ability to plan, shop, store, and prepare food, often from scratch. Some people have physical limitations that mean the most feasible way to manage this is by relying on slightly more expensive foods, such as clotted cream, cheese, pre-packaged salads, cooked chicken/meat, veges that are not in season, and so on. It's hard to balance cost with required effort, LCHF content, perishability, and taste/texture. Something has to give.
 
If I were to add up the cost of the things that I don't buy now, either because I'm low carb or because husband is gluten free, I think if I bought only non-organic food I'd be saving a lot of money.

When people say that low carb is expensive, I always assume that they are eating massive amounts of steak, sausages and bacon. LCHF is moderate protein and low carb protein can be eggs or fish not just meat. We eat quite a lot of eggs, fish, cheese and nuts. We also eat chicken and lamb more than we do beef.
 
If I were to add up the cost of the things that I don't buy now, either because I'm low carb or because husband is gluten free, I think if I bought only non-organic food I'd be saving a lot of money.

When people say that low carb is expensive, I always assume that they are eating massive amounts of steak, sausages and bacon. LCHF is moderate protein and low carb protein can be eggs or fish not just meat. We eat quite a lot of eggs, fish, cheese and nuts. We also eat chicken and lamb more than we do beef.
You're right, probably the main cost driver for you is organic food. For me it's that I have difficulty cooking food from scratch so I choose half or fully prepared options.

When I used to eat large amounts of food, and processed food, it was pretty expensive. And the health problems it caused were expensive too, lol.
 
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