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The reality of T2DM. A personal perspective

waleed

waleed

Well-Known Member
Messages
61
Location
Jordan
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Pioneering scientists are throwing away the old modality of treating T2DM and conquering new Lands. They compiled many data revolving around visceral fat being the root cause of the condition, but they have not yet put in place all the pieces of the puzzle.
I am a 55 years old engineer, and have been type 2 diabetic for 17 years. For a good reason I became opssessd with my sickness. This is in brief due to the death of my first wife 7 years ago from breast cancer and my quick remarriage to a younger woman. and for having two wonderful kids soon after. This all made me want to renew my youth again and enjoy the blessings destiny has generously endowed me after the agony that I went through. I consider myself the most motivated person on Earth to want to eradicate his T2DM. And If any is feeling curious, Yes, improving my sexual performance is the biggest reason.
I may continue this personal story, but who cares. Let me tell you what I think diabetes really is.
To describe it better I have to remind you of the presence of a starvation mode. This describes the state through which the body acts when deprived from carbs for a long time. The body literally adapts in one step after the other and tries to allocate energy resources to the organ that needs it the most. But virtually the body will take a beating and suffer from protein deficiency before further complications and death. Most scientists agree on the existence of this starvation mode.
But when people gain weight, no one defines this stage as a storage mode. If the human body can identify a starvation period and take necessary measures, why is it so difficult to assume that when it detects the beginning of a food abundance period it will again take necessary measures to store the anticipated surplus energy!!!
So. A person just swallowed a high quantity of carbs and fat. and the pancreas reacted with a large spike of insulin, loud enough to send the extra fat in the meal to the visceral stores. This starts a signal to the body to physiologically embrace itself for the abundance period and that it's time to start saving energy. So it resorts to the only way it knows how to keep the fat over there without releasing it later between meals.
It elevates its basal insulin levels. And instantaneously instructs the muscles to lower their sensitivity to insulin to avoid hypoglycaemia.
This is the first time in history that it is suggested that IR develops for a good reason. And that IR is not the culprit behind elevated insulin levels.
The rest of the story is very simple. The elevated insulin level makes it even easier to store more fat from the next meal and so on, expecting that in few months this abundance period will come to an end and that a starvation period will ensue just as it has evolved to experience for thousands of years.
However, this is not what happens in our modern days of excessive eating. The storage mode never halts, and the visceral stores become full, meaning that fat will be deposited forcibly in extremely wrong places. The body orders the pancreas to reduce its secretion of insulin, which albeit remains relatively high. And while insulin levels subsides gradually, a point will come when it can no longer serve the muscles' requirements of glucose.
This is not a medical advice. Please consult with your Doctor to manage your diabetes.
 
An hypothesis worth reading and I only have one or two comments. to make. If a person just swallowed a high quantity of carbs and fat then why is this only sent to the visceral stores and not to the subcutaneous stores (or possibly both)? Ingested fat does not get processed by the liver so it is likely to miss the viscera entirely.

"The storage mode never halts, and the visceral stores become full". At the risk of getting another learned professor out of bed I suggest this is most likely if the food contains fructose at the time of gluttony.

Can I take my crash helmet off now?
 
[QUOTquestions ="Squire Fulwood, post: 971156, member: 44622"]An hypothesis worth reading and I only have one or two comments. to make. If a person just swallowed a high quantity of carbs and fat then why is this only sent to the visceral stores and not to the subcutaneous stores (or possibly both)? Ingested fat does not get processed by the liver so it is likely to miss the viscera entirely.

"The storage mode never halts, and the visceral stores become full". At the risk of getting another learned professor out of bed I suggest this is most likely if the food contains fructose at the time of gluttony.

Can I take my crash helmet off now?[/QUOTE]
Your questions are very much valid.
The body usually sends excess fat to subconscious cells first. It will use the visceral stores in two conditions. Either after subconscious cells become full. Or if the insulin spike is so high it will send the fat directly to the visceral stores. Imagine a water pump that pumps water to two tanks one at a higher elevation than the other. When the pump is functioning normally the lower tank gets filled first. But if the pump spikes it will pump water to both tanks concurrently.
For example, Insulin spikes when processed white bread or processed rice is ingested in high quantities.
 
Right, so you are saying that excess carbs and fats go to subcutaneous cells first. I have not idea why the body should then divert to the visceral stores. Your analogy of water tanks is understood but not necessarily accepted.

I know that glucose spikes when high levels of carbs are ingested. I don't understand the last point.
 
[Q. UOTE="Squire Fulwood, post: 971199, member: 44622"]Right, so you are saying that excess carbs and fats go to subcutaneous cells first. I have not idea why the body should then divert to the visceral stores. Your analogy of water tanks is understood but not necessarily accepted.

I know that glucose spikes when high levels of carbs are ingested. I don't understand the last point.[/QUOTE]

No. I am not saying anything gets diverted. The fat will go normally to subcutaneous cells. Unless the fat had been ingested with an abnormal amount of carbs, then the spiking insulin will store some of the fat in the visceral cells.
The abnormal spike of insulin will be due to the ingestion of simple carbs that will arrive in the blood very quickly, unlike natural complex carbs that will seep to the blood over a longer span of time, and although demanding equal amounts of insulin but this insulin is divided over many hours without peaking.
 
waleed said:
[Q. UOTE="Squire Fulwood, post: 971199, member: 44622"]

No. I am not saying anything gets diverted. The fat will go normally to subcutaneous cells. Unless the fat had been ingested with an abnormal amount of carbs, then the spiking insulin will store some of the fat in the visceral cells.
The abnormal spike of insulin will be due to the ingestion of simple carbs that will arrive in the blood very quickly, unlike natural complex carbs that will seep to the blood over a longer span of time, and although demanding equal amounts of insulin but this insulin is divided over many hours without peaking.
Click to expand...
Now I understand.
 
Cl1ve said:
Hi . My problem with this is that not all obese people are insulin resistant . The figure is about 1in3. We would need an explanation as to why such a large number are not insulin resistant

Clive
Click to expand...
Maybe the difference is to do with inherited ability to cope with carbohydrates - there seem to be differences about the number of amylase genes people have and apparently different abilities to cope with carbohydrates. I think that's why it's important for each of us to establish our own level of carbohydrate intolerance. Maybe the obese but non insulin resistant have a better ability to cope with dietary carbohydrate but the ability to store an excess of calories as subcutaneous fat?

A very long video but worth watching, even if just for the first section which discusses the variability of carbohydrate intolerance and insulin resistance:


Information about amylase genes:

 
Cl1ve said:
Hi . My problem with this is that not all obese people are insulin resistant . The figure is about 1in3. We would need an explanation as to why such a large number are not insulin resistant

Clive
Click to expand...

Let me use the two tanks example one more time. Imagine two tanks on top of each other and connected to a ground water pump. When the pump is operated what will determine whether the water will start filling the lower tank first or both tanks together is the strength of the pump or the size of the connecting pipes. Now the lower tank is subcutaneous cells, the upper one is visceral cells, the pump is insulin, and the pipes are your genes.
 
Indy51 said:
Maybe the difference is to do with inherited ability to cope with carbohydrates - there seem to be differences about the number of amylase genes people have and apparently different abilities to cope with carbohydrates. I think that's why it's important for each of us to establish our own level of carbohydrate intolerance. Maybe the obese but non insulin resistant have a better ability to cope with dietary carbohydrate but the ability to store an excess of calories as subcutaneous fat?

A very long video but worth watching, even if just for the first section which discusses the variability of carbohydrate intolerance and insulin resistance:


Information about amylase genes:

Click to expand...

Hi . Thanks for putting the videos on for me . Iv watched them all the way through . It seams that the more I try to learn the more confusing it becomes . There are so many different opinions by so many experts . For me my levels at there worst where 27 . I'm now down to a BG of about 6ish . Iv done this on medication and iv restricted my carbs to under 130 . I still eat grain but only whole grain and organic . It's worked for me . Again thanks for putting the videos

Clive
 
waleed said:
Let me use the two tanks example one more time. Imagine two tanks on top of each other and connected to a ground water pump. When the pump is operated what will determine whether the water will start filling the lower tank first or both tanks together is the strength of the pump or the size of the connecting pipes. Now the lower tank is subcutaneous cells, the upper one is visceral cells, the pump is insulin, and the pipes are your genes.
Click to expand...

Hi I understand the basic principal the you are saying but this does not explain why the is 2 pumps working in a different way . You're analogy only works one out of three

Clive
 
Cl1ve said:
Hi I understand the basic principal the you are saying but this does not explain why the is 2 pumps working in a different way . You're analogy only works one out of three

Clive
Click to expand...
Clive.
One pump only is connected to the two tanks.
 
waleed said:
Let me use the two tanks example one more time. Imagine two tanks on top of each other and connected to a ground water pump. When the pump is operated what will determine whether the water will start filling the lower tank first or both tanks together is the strength of the pump or the size of the connecting pipes. Now the lower tank is subcutaneous cells, the upper one is visceral cells, the pump is insulin, and the pipes are your genes.
Click to expand...

Hand up at the back of the class. Aching arm. Strained face.!!!! :D

Is not gravity a forgotten factor...?
 
Hi. If you insist on turning this to physics. GRAVITY is not a variable.
 
Hi . If every thing is constant with your pump system then everybody that over eats with put on weight but that is not the case . If you are trying to say that the second tank is filled when we over eat . Why have I been able to eat how much I like but my weight has remained constant I'm 61 and my weight has changed very little . Can you explain to me why filling the second tank
has a different effect on different people

Clive
 
The laws of thermodynamics state that if someone eats more than he expends, he should gain weight, and vice versa.
Now the only explanation if this doesn't happen in a particular case is because there is a leak.
If nutritions are not fully digested, they may leak with the stool or the urine.
Some people have high metabolic rate like young people or sportsmen.
 
Then there's the variable of what you fill the tank with. :)

If I eat y amount of carb calories I put on weight. if I eat y x2 fat calories I don't put on weight.
 
Yes. What you eat induces insulin differently. And the amount/rate of insulin determines whether to store or use that nutrition.
 
waleed said:
Hi. If you insist on turning this to physics. GRAVITY is not a variable.
Click to expand...

Physics? Of course not. I was just knocking on the door (later than anticipated) & thinking like a plumber.. ;)
 
Cl1ve said:
Hi . My problem with this is that not all obese people are insulin resistant . The figure is about 1in3. We would need an explanation as to why such a large number are not insulin resistant

Clive
Click to expand...
That is easilty explained. People who are obese but not insulin resistant have a favourable fat disposition. The fat is tucked away at non dangerous places, compared to people with type 2 diabetes genetics, they get their fat stored at poor places,liver pancreas and organs.

This is a swedish youtube video about a swedish company specializing in scanning people for where their fat is located.

If you stop at 1:05 in the video, you will see an example where they compare a pair of female monozygotic twins.


Women 1. has a weight of 94kg a bmi of 34 and a waist of 103cm.

Women 2. has a weight of 109 kg a bmi of 39 and a waist size of 112cm.

The strange thing is this, the first women which seemingly have the better markers,has a liverfat percentage of 5.2 %, But the second women has a liverfat of 1.8 %.

So genetics but also lifestyle matters.

People who smoke get more viscerfal fat than others, and it is probably something to do with toxins in cigarettes,and activity also matters.
 
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