Some things I've been pondering over

[copey399]

When I was first diagnosed in December 2014 I had an HBA1c of 7.3% or 56 mmol/mol. I told the DN that I would lose weight, change my eating habits and exercise more. I didn't do any of these things and carried on eating bread, chips, pies, cakes and biscuits (head in the sand/it's not happening to me syndrome) so by about April when I was tested again I had gone up to 7.4% or 57 mol (not a huge amount but I knew it wouldn't stop there if I didn't change something).

As it says in my signature, was put on Metformin but I didn't give it much of a chance because I didn't like the nausea even on the slow release ones. Then I was given Gliclazide and a monitor. Didn't like the thought of hypos so didn't take them but luckily I stumbled on this forum and decided that lchf was the way to go, spurred on by all the success stories and helpful advice I got here and determined to stay off the pills.

I threw myself into it whole-heartedly, and although I struggled with the weight loss due to not being very active (age and a back problem) the numbers were coming down and although I didn't get the dramatic losses in either it was slow but steady. Weight went down from 12st8 to 10st8 and I was getting readings of mostly 5-6 with occasional spikes.

While I was seeing the GP for something unrelated she remarked that I wasn't taking the meds (could tell by lack of repeat prescriptions obviously) so I told her about the lchf diet and she was very interested but said she would like me to have an interim blood test just to see how it was going.

I was just over 3 months into low carbing by then and my test result was 7.0% or 53 mol which I found a bit disappointing but knew it would take time and my DN was delighted with it.

So (if you're still awake ..lol) that's the background information.

Now to get to the point. Just lately I haven't been feeling very good. According to MyFitnessPal I haven't been having enough calories a lot of the time. Now I know all you dedicated followers of lchf say "how can you get fed up with lchf when there's so much you can have" but that's what's happened. I am fed up and I can't face a lot of the allowable stuff - I've done courgette spaghetti and cauliflower rice til it's coming out my ears.

Anyway, I've read the "What have you eaten today" thread and some people on there seem to have quite a lot of things that I wouldn't dream of having but I've been trying different things and getting really high readings for anything like even 1 slice of Nimble brown bread (9 carbs a slice) or a roast potato or a few carrots (up into the 11s still after 2 hours).

So what I am wondering is, does low carbing make you super-sensitive to normal carbs if you try to re-introduce them? I am just thinking about the marginal difference in my lst and 2nd HBA1C results when I was stuffing all and everything on a daily basis. What the heck were my readings after a Burger King and fries plus milkshake and half a packet of biscuits dunked in tea with sugar???? And why does it just take one small amount of carbs to push my figures up so high now? I'm dreading my next test because my monitor keeps telling my I've been out of range a lot just for minor indiscretions. Considering the marginal drop I had when I was being totally dedicated and being told I was in range by my monitor it's not going to be good.

I'm seriously thinking about trying the Metformin again. Now I'm more carb conscious and certainly wouldn't be going back to my old bad habits I am just wondering if these would help me to have a little of what I fancy now and again.

I'm sorry for the length of this post and I won't blame you if nobody reads it. xxx

 

[poshtotty]

Hi @copey399

I've read all your post!

I can't answer all your questions but I'm a great believer in giving people and things a second chance and I personally think its not a bad idea to reconsider Metformin again. I wonder if you had a bad reaction to it before because you were also still eating carbs?

I speak as someone who didn't have any adverse reaction to Metformin but then I wasn't a particularly heavy carb eater at the time of diagnosis. Since you now understand LCHF and have made it work for yourself with excellent results at times, I'm wondering if you might tolerate the SR version better this time round?

It would be a shame for all your good efforts and knowledge to go to waste.

Let us know what you decide. Keep the LCHF faith!

 

[copey399]

@poshtotty Thank you for plowing through all that. I just read your story so far and it was very inspiring.

I don't think I gave the Metformin a fair chance to be honest. I didn't have the benefit of all the experiences on here at the time either. I should have persevered a bit more. I am also thinking that some of the people who post in the What have you eaten today thread are on some medication too.

 

[superwoman1964]

I read your post too and I completely get where your coming from. What I wonder is how much protein you are eating. I have also found like you that I am very carb intolerant but have recently found that if I am careful not to fill up on too much protein it helps. I currently trying to focus on vegetables as the main part of my meals with plenty of fat with just a small portion of meat. So a really good size helping of cauliflower cheese with half a chicken breast for example whereas before I would have eaten a large chicken breast and a small helping of cauliflower cheese worrying about the carbs in that. It certainly helps with the boredom as there is so many brilliant and varied things you can do with veg.

 

[Prem51]

Hi @copey399 I don't think you should be beating yourself up so much. You have done really well to lose 2 stone and bring your HbA1c from 57 to 53. I have only lost 1.5 stone and brought my HbA1c down from 49 to 44, and I was starting at a lower number than you. But I thought I was doing well.
I don't test at all. I know that would be considered heresy by many on here. But apart from having a fear of needles and not liking the idea of pricking my fingers many times a day, I don't want to become obsessed by temporary BG spikes. I expect my readings would show spikes after eating some of the things I still eat. I do eat rice, potatoes and biscuits, though less often and in far smaller amounts than previously. I am aiming at a longer term reduction, both in weight and BG levels, and not so concerned about any occasional spikes.
I think you are doing well and heading in the right direction. Keep it up.

 

[poshtotty]

@poshtotty Thank you for plowing through all that. I just read your story so far and it was very inspiring.

I don't think I gave the Metformin a fair chance to be honest. I didn't have the benefit of all the experiences on here at the time either. I should have persevered a bit more. I am also thinking that some of the people who post in the What have you eaten today thread are on some medication too.

Thank you! I don't know whether you've seen this thread about Metformin http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/has-anyone-had-a-good-experience-of-metformin.86023/page-5. It might be helpful in making an informed choice

 

[SunnyExpat]

..........So what I am wondering is, does low carbing make you super-sensitive to normal carbs if you try to re-introduce them? I am just thinking about the marginal difference in my lst and 2nd HBA1C results when I was stuffing all and everything on a daily basis. What the heck were my readings after a Burger King and fries plus milkshake and half a packet of biscuits dunked in tea with sugar???? And why does it just take one small amount of carbs to push my figures up so high now? I'm dreading my next test because my monitor keeps telling my I've been out of range a lot just for minor indiscretions. Considering the marginal drop I had when I was being totally dedicated and being told I was in range by my monitor it's not going to be good.

I'm seriously thinking about trying the Metformin again. Now I'm more carb conscious and certainly wouldn't be going back to my old bad habits I am just wondering if these would help me to have a little of what I fancy now and again.

I'm sorry for the length of this post and I won't blame you if nobody reads it. xxx

Have a read of

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/thr...asnt-worked-yet-7-weeks-in.86694/#post-987633

post #6
initial high readings are quite common.

 

[martsnow]

When I was first diagnosed in December 2014 I had an HBA1c of 7.3% or 56 mmol/mol. I told the DN that I would lose weight, change my eating habits and exercise more. I didn't do any of these things and carried on eating bread, chips, pies, cakes and biscuits (head in the sand/it's not happening to me syndrome) so by about April when I was tested again I had gone up to 7.4% or 57 mol (not a huge amount but I knew it wouldn't stop there if I didn't change something).

As it says in my signature, was put on Metformin but I didn't give it much of a chance because I didn't like the nausea even on the slow release ones. Then I was given Gliclazide and a monitor. Didn't like the thought of hypos so didn't take them but luckily I stumbled on this forum and decided that lchf was the way to go, spurred on by all the success stories and helpful advice I got here and determined to stay off the pills.

I threw myself into it whole-heartedly, and although I struggled with the weight loss due to not being very active (age and a back problem) the numbers were coming down and although I didn't get the dramatic losses in either it was slow but steady. Weight went down from 12st8 to 10st8 and I was getting readings of mostly 5-6 with occasional spikes.

While I was seeing the GP for something unrelated she remarked that I wasn't taking the meds (could tell by lack of repeat prescriptions obviously) so I told her about the lchf diet and she was very interested but said she would like me to have an interim blood test just to see how it was going.

I was just over 3 months into low carbing by then and my test result was 7.0% or 53 mol which I found a bit disappointing but knew it would take time and my DN was delighted with it.

So (if you're still awake ..lol) that's the background information.

Now to get to the point. Just lately I haven't been feeling very good. According to MyFitnessPal I haven't been having enough calories a lot of the time. Now I know all you dedicated followers of lchf say "how can you get fed up with lchf when there's so much you can have" but that's what's happened. I am fed up and I can't face a lot of the allowable stuff - I've done courgette spaghetti and cauliflower rice til it's coming out my ears.

Anyway, I've read the "What have you eaten today" thread and some people on there seem to have quite a lot of things that I wouldn't dream of having but I've been trying different things and getting really high readings for anything like even 1 slice of Nimble brown bread (9 carbs a slice) or a roast potato or a few carrots (up into the 11s still after 2 hours).

So what I am wondering is, does low carbing make you super-sensitive to normal carbs if you try to re-introduce them? I am just thinking about the marginal difference in my lst and 2nd HBA1C results when I was stuffing all and everything on a daily basis. What the heck were my readings after a Burger King and fries plus milkshake and half a packet of biscuits dunked in tea with sugar???? And why does it just take one small amount of carbs to push my figures up so high now? I'm dreading my next test because my monitor keeps telling my I've been out of range a lot just for minor indiscretions. Considering the marginal drop I had when I was being totally dedicated and being told I was in range by my monitor it's not going to be good.

I'm seriously thinking about trying the Metformin again. Now I'm more carb conscious and certainly wouldn't be going back to my old bad habits I am just wondering if these would help me to have a little of what I fancy now and again.

I'm sorry for the length of this post and I won't blame you if nobody reads it. xxx

I found your post very interesting, but didn't realise, how long it was, until, after, I had read it mmmm

 

[copey399]

Thank you to everyone who replied xx It's alway good to hear others take on things.

Thank you! I don't know whether you've seen this thread about Metformin http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/has-anyone-had-a-good-experience-of-metformin.86023/page-5. It might be helpful in making an informed choice

That was interesting - some for and some not so keen but it was definitely informative x

Have a read of

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/thr...asnt-worked-yet-7-weeks-in.86694/#post-987633

post #6
initial high readings are quite common.

Yes, that makes sense. Thank you. x

 

[Celeriac]

I have found that as time passes, I have become super-sensitive to sugar and processed carbs.

I've read that low carbing can cause peripheral insulin resistance so that the brain gets any available glucose. I've read that Primal and Paleo types without diabetes, can fail an OGTT unless they refeed carbs for a few days first.

I've also read posts from bodybuilders, who became unable to eat carbs after low carbing, to the point of nausea, any time they attempted it.

Type 2 diabetes is supposed to be progressive, and therefore managing BG is only managing symptoms. It's not treating the underlying cause of the disease. It may be that increasing sensitivity to carbs, in people with T2DM, shows that it does get worse, regardless of how well we manage the symptoms.

Some doctors in the U.S. believe that before Prediabetes there is Pre-prediabetes and some believe that Carbohydrate Intolerance comes before Prediabetes. Theory, but could explain why T2DM develops in some obese people and not others. Coeliac disease is genetic, T2DM often is, too. People who develop T2DM earlier in life, may be triggered by the food they eat, (because most of us ate carbs in some form or other) because genetically we can't handle them. Just like many lactose-intolerant people don't have a milk-processing gene.

So after taking away the carbs, maybe it's not surprising, that some people do better on low carb diets, whether they have diabetes or not.

Maybe high BG after eating them again and being more sensitive to them, is really some sort of allergic reaction ?? A plea, as in NO please don't feed me that stuff'. ???

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[LinsT]

Anyway, I've read the "What have you eaten today" thread and some people on there seem to have quite a lot of things that I wouldn't dream of having but I've been trying different things and getting really high readings for anything like even 1 slice of Nimble brown bread (9 carbs a slice) or a roast potato or a few carrots (up into the 11s still after 2 hours).

Hi @copey399 - I think it's worth noting that people don't always post their post food BG's in this thread. So we don't know for sure that some of those things we see people eating DON'T spike their BG's.

 

[ickihun]

I've always thought that the high amounts of protein I eat gets changed into glucose in the carbs absence. I have ti actively reduce my protein and add fat. Watch the calories thou.
I'm constantly over eating on protein instead of carbs. This has to change if I want to burn fat. This is my personal struggle. I love protein. Always have. Maybe protein is my problem as well as carbs?

 

[vintageutopia]

I had a long history of insulin resistance before being diagnosed as a T2. It started with PCOS, then followed with three pregnancies with gestational diabetes. I may always have to take Metformin, but I am thankful that is all that I need to take (with LC diet) to maintain a healthy BS. Especially, considering that my A1C was 11% at the time I was diagnosed.

Metformin took some time to adjust to, but definitely eating a higher carb diet and taking Metformin do NOT mix. I had terrible GI issues at first, but it evened out when my diet evened out.

Maybe, the Metformin will assist your resistance so that when you do occasionally have that potato, your BS will not rise as high and fall faster after eating? It may be worth discussing with your provider. In the end, you can always stop it if it doesn't work for you.

 

[Celeriac]

My husband had lunch with his mother on Sunday, before driving to the West Country for a course. He ate brisket of beef, roast potatoes, roast parsnips and boiled carrots. No gravy as he has NCGS.

He didn't have any sauces and obviously no wine either. He didn't have any food before he reached the hotel, just his usual sugar-free sweets and chewing gum.

Shortly after arriving he had bad nausea and as he hadn't had gluten, we assume that it had to be the mound of carby veg. MrCeleriac does lower carb, not very low carb.

He eats gluten-free rolls, bread, crispbreads, organic oven chips, the occasional tin of organic baked beans or bag of organic blue corn chips, gluten-free steak & kidney pies, gluten-free quiches and gluten-free fish fingers and organic ice cream - other than this, mostly eats the same as me.

His mother and daughter from first marriage are both T2DM so maybe he does have a carbohydrate intolerance.

Thought I'd mention it as a real life incident of post-carb binge nausea.

 

[vintageutopia]

Do you think it could have been the sugar free treats too? Malitol and I don't get along.

 

[Celeriac]

Previously, if he had overindulged with the sweets it had the proverbial laxative effect

He's free to have roast potatoes and roast parsnips at home, he chooses not to. We reckon the last time he had roast spuds was at his mother's some 6 weeks ago and he was fine.

 

[ickihun]

Do you think once you lose weight from carbs to low carb the weight loss stops? I'm not losing anymore. I guess I'm not fat burning. When I'm sweating during sctivities I must be burning protein as no weight loss. Swimming 3 times a week and 2 mini jogs. My muscles aren't moving freely. Very very stiff. Could I be lacking potassium? What lchf food gives mr potassium? Pls help. :-(

 

[LinsT]

What lchf food gives mr potassium?

green leafy veg, particularly spinach, avocados, yoghurt

 

[cocacola]

I didn't get on with Metformin. I changed to slow release Metformin and there wasn't much improvement for me bowel wise.
I was under the impression I had IBS. I stopped the SR Metformin a few months back. I'm now on diet and exercise and no other medication by my choice. My BG levels are dropping steadily.
Why not go back to your DN or GP and ask to trial the SR Metformin.

 

[ickihun]

Hi @cocacola. Not sure your reply is for me or another.
Myself I've been on metformin and I now have an intolerance to it so I was put on insulin.