Disagreement is not rejection.

[leslie10152]

I'm sorry I can't agree, please don't take that as a rejection. It's just my warped sense of humour.

I got it!

 

[leslie10152]

OK, any volunteers. Perhaps I could put my name forward for peer reviewing the jokes section.
Sally

I second the motion, all in favour say "I"...?

 

[Hotpepper20000]

"I"

 

[noblehead]

To quote Socrates:

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

 

[therower]

If you truly believe, can you lose a debate?

Not trying to be clever here but my question is genuine.
@noblehead your ability to quote Socrates is impressive, genuinely wish I had such knowledge to hand.

 

[Deleted member 308541]

@noblehead your ability to quote Socrates is impressive, genuinely wish I had such knowledge to hand.

Socrates: True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing.

A quick Google and voila Socrates quotes, scroll down the page a bit.

http://www.keepinspiring.me/socrates-quotes/

 

[leslie10152]

This is one of the best forums I have ever been on. I have posted a few times incorrectly, usually when tired, then quickly been corected - this ensures newbies get very good advice.

There are many "bright" contributors who have opposing methodologies e.g low calorie / low carb etc. The only opinion I will never accept is that Type 2 can be reversed on a high carb lifestyle (with no drugs or gastric band ir similar)

There is no doubt about it. I have been on other forums, but they lacked the serious scrutiny of incoming information that you find here.

 

[leslie10152]

Socrates: True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing.

A quick Google and voila Socrates quotes, scroll down the page a bit.

http://www.keepinspiring.me/socrates-quotes/

An inspiring thought!

 

[pleinster]

If you truly believe, can you lose a debate?

Not trying to be clever here but my question is genuine.
@noblehead your ability to quote Socrates is impressive, genuinely wish I had such knowledge to hand.

Philosophers in ancient Athens (including student of Socrates such as Plato) taught Socratic dialogue among other forms of argument. Wealthy families sent their sons to learn from these men the best forms of argument so that when they were appearing and indeed speaking in courts they would win regardless of truth. The best speaker, most convincing in debating skills and in trapping opponents with their own words and expressed or implied thoughts, could and often did win - if he knew he was wrong, his opponent knew he was wrong and everyone present knew he was wrong. Today, we call these people court room solicitors or politicians. Black can be white if the argument is better than he who argues for difference.

 

[GrantGam]

The forum thrives on incoming information - but to be effective it should be 'peer reviewed'. By that, I mean that any information entered into the forum should be presented for assessment and argument. Any and all points should be addressed and any relevent additional information be presented. Some may feel that an argument against a finding is a rejection. Not so - it is more a quality control on such information to avoid dissemination of inaccurate information.

I do not take as truth, everything I read on the internet. There are too many people inputting too frequently to keep the records accurate.

Peer reviewing is a good concept, but it would fall down when the majority of the peers have the same beliefs - there is an element of that here.

If 75% of the forum believed the earth was flat - and I quoted Steven Hawking saying it was round, my quote would receive poor reviews. Not because it's a misquote, but just because it's not the status quo.

Peer reviewing would be a great tool with an independent body or impartial group. Unfortunately though, if you implemented that here, it would likely just become a matter of opinion and a like/dislike function. The lines between fact, fiction and personal opinion can become extremely blurred when you add in human emotion.

 

[Robinredbreast]

I read a lot and I often keep interesting quotes from the books.
This is from Think of a Numb3r - John Verdon :- Dichotomy.

A detective and an owner of a 'recluse get away institute' a few quotes :-

"The simplest conflict is the one between the way we view ourselves and the way we view others. Example, if we were arguing and you screamed at me, I would see your inability to control your temper. However, if I screamed at you, I would see the cause not as my temper but your provocation - something in you to which my scream is an appropriate response " We each seem to be wired to believe my situation causes my problems, but your personality causes yours. This creates trouble. My desire to have everything my way seems to makes sense, while your desire to have your way seems infantile "
The mind is a mass of contradictions and conflicts.

Fascinating

 

[SockFiddler]

But I've seen plenty of challenges and disagreement here, some of it blunt and direct, some of it cloaked with humour but still just as sincere and I've not really seen anyone get uppity about it*

Compared to other fora I've been on in the past, this one is impressively civilised and I don't think it's anything to do with "We're all in the same boat" - I've moderated forums for parents of disabled children and disagreements were... well, different there

There's a particular sort of kindness and acceptance here that I've not encountered before, which does allow lots of differing opinions to flourish. Look at the recent Cannabis and Diabetes thread for a perfect example of people with strongly-held views engaging in really interesting debate - without anyone feeling rejected:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/cannabis-use-and-diabetes.123081/page-3#post-1517344

I like the idea of "peer review" but how do we define "peer" in our population? In science (where the term is frequently used) it means people doing work in the same field and is as much a test of method as a review of the published results. There is a sort of "peership" here, in that we're all random people who came across this site and decided to start writing, but I think that's where our egality ends: different types of diabetics (or family members of such), researchers, writers, doctors. And we're all in different stages of our illnesses with very different background.

That's not to say we're not peers, just not in a way I think would be useful. Our strength, as a community, is in our diversity. And maybe, if a "peer review group" was to be formed, it should be of people who represent the vast array of differences in the people who post here regularly**

I do love the idea, @leslie10152 ; I'm just trying to rummage about for a way to make it work meaningfully.


*To be fair, I've not been around for years and years.

** And even that won't be a true reflection because, as with any busy forum, I'm prepared to bet that only 1/10th of the regular members post frequently and that we have no idea what the other 90% of regular readers are thinking. Beyond the fact that they're enjoying it enough to keep coming back.

 

[Janet_rabbit]

I'm not sure peer reviewing is a good idea. There's a danger the reviewers' own ideas and viewpoints will then wrongly be put forward or taken as 'the right advice. Better that we all feel able to use our own judgment about posts and post a counter-point to anything that seems 'incorrect' to try and give as full and accurate a picture as

 

[Fleegle]

Peer reviewing is a good concept, but it would fall down when the majority of the peers have the same beliefs - there is an element of that here.

If 75% of the forum believed the earth was flat - and I quoted Steven Hawking saying it was round, my quote would receive poor reviews. Not because it's a misquote, but just because it's not the status quo.

Peer reviewing would be a great tool with an independent body or impartial group. Unfortunately though, if you implemented that here, it would likely just become a matter of opinion and a like/dislike function. The lines between fact, fiction and personal opinion can become extremely blurred when you add in human emotion.

That is so true!

 

[busydiabeticmum]

Peer reviewing is a good concept, but it would fall down when the majority of the peers have the same beliefs - there is an element of that here.

If 75% of the forum believed the earth was flat - and I quoted Steven Hawking saying it was round, my quote would receive poor reviews. Not because it's a misquote, but just because it's not the status quo.

Peer reviewing would be a great tool with an independent body or impartial group. Unfortunately though, if you implemented that here, it would likely just become a matter of opinion and a like/dislike function. The lines between fact, fiction and personal opinion can become extremely blurred when you add in human emotion.

But there is a difference here... we have an illness and the truth comes from whether it works or it doesn't, the fact that we are all completely unique and react in a different way to the same thing (no one size fits all)... this means that people who have been recently diagnosed can come upon lots of different things to try (just like clothes/shoe shopping) until they find what fits them.

Personally I find the debates really useful as it equips me for the doctors visits, where by I am having the one size fits all shoved down my throat, without the information I get on here I would be on insulin now... we can ALL share our experience of diets and medicine etc, for me it is just like reading all the info in the medicine leaflets... you can choose to take it or reject it based on an informed decision.

By having pier debates, it means that 75% don't block out the 25%... just like with the nhs who's pushed diet is considered the ONLY diet and the people who it doesn't work for are left without a voice.

We also have to remember people who read the posts but are not part of the debate (so are neither the 75% or the 25%) who may use the information both sides put forward... again it is about what works for that individual and not winning or losing against each other... the diabetes is what we are trying to win against.

I just discovered I can go on a different medicine other than metformin and insulin if my Bgl get out of hand... being intolerant to metformin and not liking the idea of injecting for the rest of my life... I would not have known this had it not been for this forum, my doctors etc only push metformin and threaten insulin as the only other option. Yes I may be behind the times but it is nice to be able to learn from others on here.

 

[GrantGam]

But there is a difference here... we have an illness and the truth comes from whether it works or it doesn't, the fact that we are all completely unique and react in a different way to the same thing (no one size fits all)... this means that people who have been recently diagnosed can come upon lots of different things to try (just like clothes/shoe shopping) until they find what fits them.

Personally I find the debates really useful as it equips me for the doctors visits, where by I am having the one size fits all shoved down my throat, without the information I get on here I would be on insulin now... we can ALL share our experience of diets and medicine etc, for me it is just like reading all the info in the medicine leaflets... you can choose to take it or reject it based on an informed decision.

By having pier debates, it means that 75% don't block out the 25%... just like with the nhs who's pushed diet is considered the ONLY diet and the people who it doesn't work for are left without a voice.

We also have to remember people who read the posts but are not part of the debate (so are neither the 75% or the 25%) who may use the information both sides put forward... again it is about what works for that individual and not winning or losing against each other... the diabetes is what we are trying to win against.

I just discovered I can go on a different medicine other than metformin and insulin if my Bgl get out of hand... being intolerant to metformin and not liking the idea of injecting for the rest of my life... I would not have known this had it not been for this forum, my doctors etc only push metformin and threaten insulin as the only other option. Yes I may be behind the times but it is nice to be able to learn from others on here.

But on here the 75% do block out the 25%, you see it every single day on the forum regarding diet. As such, many members have left or are pondering leaving - because they feel like idiots. I fully support debate and quite enjoy it, but unfortunately this forum has lost its way recently wrt what is healthy debate and is now bordering on belittling/bullying of those with alternative views on specific matters. And that's not because the information opposing the masses has been reviewed and gauged to be fictional fantasy, but simply because it's a different view to what's currently deemed "the only way"...

Peer review is good, effective and useful "if" the parties involved are at least willing to listen to the opinions of others instead of instantly dismissing them just because they're different.

There we go I've said my bit

 

[leslie10152]

I'm not sure peer reviewing is a good idea. There's a danger the reviewers' own ideas and viewpoints will then wrongly be put forward or taken as 'the right advice. Better that we all feel able to use our own judgment about posts and post a counter-point to anything that seems 'incorrect' to try and give as full and accurate a picture as

I agree. Free choice to make a decision.

 

[Bluetit1802]

But on here the 75% do block out the 25%, you see it every single day on the forum regarding diet. As such, many members have left or are pondering leaving - because they feel like idiots. I fully support debate and quite enjoy it, but unfortunately this forum has lost its way recently wrt what is healthy debate and is now bordering on belittling/bullying of those with alternative views on specific matters.

Speaking as an old timer on this forum, had everyone been here 3 or 4 years ago they really would have had reason to complain. Believe it or not, people were banned for daring to even mention LCHF. Bullying was rife. That was the atmosphere on here when I first started lurking. It wasn't a pleasant place to be a lot of the time, especially for newbies. These days I don't believe this is the case on the whole, and certainly no-one is banned for offering different opinions.

 

[JohnEGreen]

Debate the argument not the person making the argument.

I have a friend of 30 years plus standing, on many issues we hold diametrically opposite views. When we visit if at the end of the visit we have not had a good row he is very disappointed but we will always be the best of friends. That's what it's like here.

 

[Jaylee]

To quote Socrates:

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

A guy in tights also wrote this for a 2000 year old dude in a robe..

"you know you cannot see yourself, so well as by reflection,
I, your glass, will modestly discover to yourself, that of yourself which you yet know not of."