Disagreement is not rejection.

leslie10152

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,110
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Ignorance
The forum thrives on incoming information - but to be effective it should be 'peer reviewed'. By that, I mean that any information entered into the forum should be presented for assessment and argument. Any and all points should be addressed and any relevent additional information be presented. Some may feel that an argument against a finding is a rejection. Not so - it is more a quality control on such information to avoid dissemination of inaccurate information.

I do not take as truth, everything I read on the internet. There are too many people inputting too frequently to keep the records accurate.
 
B

badcat

Guest
I quite agree
I think where this, and other forums, begin to fall to pieces is when it becomes semi factional / tribal with individuals / groups adopting the position of arguing from a position of " I know what I believe, I know what I believe is right, and I therefore know that anything / anyone who believes something elses is wrong". I have seen shades of that from some posters on the forum ( thankfully a minority)
That position reminds me far too much of the "one size must fit all" dogma spouted by elements of the medical profession
 

hh1

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,355
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
I believe we move forward through sharing information, debate, discussion and questioning. One of the things I like about this site is how often people say what works for them and add the caveat that 'we're all different'; there seems to me to be more acceptance of that than elsewhere, and long may it last.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bon83 and Looseboy

Mbaker

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,339
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Available fast foods in Supermarkets
This is one of the best forums I have ever been on. I have posted a few times incorrectly, usually when tired, then quickly been corected - this ensures newbies get very good advice.

There are many "bright" contributors who have opposing methodologies e.g low calorie / low carb etc. The only opinion I will never accept is that Type 2 can be reversed on a high carb lifestyle (with no drugs or gastric band ir similar)
 

Guzzler

Master
Messages
10,577
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Poor grammar, bullying and drunks.
We are human. We love to succeed and advertise our successes openly. Our failures, however, are kept close. If we choose a particular successful pathway then we mostly want to share that success but we should be mindful that our pathway may lead someone else to failure and vice versa. I am new here but have seen several stories of a return to healthier status all being fantastic but does it mean that any of those methods would automatically suit me? Not at all, and should I succeed in my quest to take back control I cannot poo poo anyone else's methods of control. Honesty and open mindedness are key to keeping a forum of this size from becoming a one trick pony. We are a diverse community therefore it follows there will be diverse roads to recovery. Respectful debate, yes but peer reviewed input? I'm not sure about that one. After all, we are in the business of taking anecdotal evidence to educate each other in the main with a goodly amount of science that backs up the stories of recovery but we may be fighting for a long time to come in the battle to change the accepted norms, until that day comes we must stand together.
 

ickihun

Master
Messages
13,698
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Bullies
Just back from consultant who told me to half insulin for milk and yogart liver shrinking diet for bariatric surgery. I reminded him that those foods increase my insulin need not decrease it. He was surprised as most of his other diabetic patients have hypos on milk and yogart.
Seems to me they are on too much insulin to start with? Type2s preparing for bariatric surgery that is. Well, again one size fits all, advice.
Strinking of liver before op is a very very important undertaking. Poor surgeon needs to see the stomach if he is to operate on it.

Then dietican said take no notice. Diabetics don't do that diet, they're given a different diet to shrink liver.

Whose right and whose wrong?
.......... Answer : me. Whatever my body needs.
Specialist agreed.

Confused? Only if you take every piece of advice as gospel.

Moral of the story.
Take the info and apply it to your own individual need. If it doesn't work it doesn't mean it won't ever work in the future... things change.
For me especially.

Personally I cannot spend loads of time reading upteen links and commenting on everything but I don't think posters expect a huge discussion but any constructive criticism is healthy, about any angle of diabetes care. I feel.
 

SockFiddler

Well-Known Member
Messages
623
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
A useful tool I (try to) remember is the following:

I believe / think / understand: For expressing an opinion based largely in personal experience and lacking "credible" evidence <insert Cancer Protocol argument here - I'll detail at the end>. Largely has no scientific references or reputable sources that can be quoted, e.g. while Sam Ramsden up the road might write a blog that agrees with your anti-toenail polish stance, the chances are you won't find agreement in New Scientist. These statements are written from the poster's perspective.

It is known / proven / has been shown: For expressing a demonstrable "fact" (given that science is a constantly changing and evolving field and accepting that what is known to be "true" now may not, actually be correct: Flat World Syndrome). To be polite and to demonstrate credibility, it's good to find a reputable source for your information.

Accept someone else's reality: Basic Theory of Mind stuff, but still easy to forget. Just because the sun sets at 4pm for you, doesn't mean it's dark everywhere else in the world. People construct their own realities from their own experiences; no two are the same, and no-one has the right to disclaim or deny someone else's "reality", no matter how hockey and bonkers it might seem (see: anything about religion, politics or alternative medicine).

I am (you may have noticed!) highly opinionated and very vocal about my thoughts (though I try not to be aggressive!) and I learned these three forum "rules" the hard way. But in my years of opining, they're the three rules that best help a community rub along nicely.


*The Cancer Protocol Argument:
This is an extreme version of the "It worked for me!" argument. Essentially, new cancer protocols are measured in "success rates" which (brutally) translates into "How many people died before this one patient survived?". That's the objective view. If you are that one, single patient for whom the new protocol was successful, you'll swear blind by it, because you can only see things subjectively: you won't know that you're Patient 15, and you won't really care. However, the impact the treatment has had upon you - i.e. miracle cure, saved my life etc - will absolutely convince you that this new, amazing treatment worked for you, therefore it will work for everyone. (You don't have the data, but you do have the evidence)

Both subjective and objective arguments are important, but it's also important to be clear about the differences between them. The Cancer Protocol Argument is just an extreme example of why.
 

Guzzler

Master
Messages
10,577
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Poor grammar, bullying and drunks.
Ah, Sock . This reminds me immediately of the oft used phrase that has followed me around for decades.
"If I can give up smoking anyone can". I swear if one more eejit says that to me I will poke them in the eye with a dirty stick.
 

Bluetit1802

Legend
Messages
25,216
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Ah, Sock . This reminds me immediately of the oft used phrase that has followed me around for decades.
"If I can give up smoking anyone can". I swear if one more eejit says that to me I will poke them in the eye with a dirty stick.

And as we say up north, "there's nowt wus than an ex smoker" !
 

SockFiddler

Well-Known Member
Messages
623
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Ah, Sock . This reminds me immediately of the oft used phrase that has followed me around for decades.
"If I can give up smoking anyone can". I swear if one more eejit says that to me I will poke them in the eye with a dirty stick.

And, actually, it leads back to @leslie10152 's initial post: Just change "smoking" to "carbs".
 

Fleegle

Well-Known Member
Messages
775
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
The forum thrives on incoming information - but to be effective it should be 'peer reviewed'. By that, I mean that any information entered into the forum should be presented for assessment and argument. Any and all points should be addressed and any relevent additional information be presented. Some may feel that an argument against a finding is a rejection. Not so - it is more a quality control on such information to avoid dissemination of inaccurate information.

I do not take as truth, everything I read on the internet. There are too many people inputting too frequently to keep the records accurate.
Fantastic post @leslie10152.

Perhaps a thread should be started called "peer reviewed" and once a new idea has been reviewed or many people acknowledge it then it should be moved there. Because I suspect there are many good facts buried in the posts too hard to find. For example - someone posted about fermented milk the other day - amazing - but I bet that has been before and the summary could of been posted along with apple cider vinegar, cinnamon, turmeric etc.
 

Bluetit1802

Legend
Messages
25,216
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Fantastic post @leslie10152.

Perhaps a thread should be started called "peer reviewed" and once a new idea has been reviewed or many people acknowledge it then it should be moved there. Because I suspect there are many good facts buried in the posts too hard to find. For example - someone posted about fermented milk the other day - amazing - but I bet that has been before and the summary could of been posted along with apple cider vinegar, cinnamon, turmeric etc.

You can use the search facility to find previous threads. It does work. (if the forum is working quickly enough, that is!)
 

busydiabeticmum

Well-Known Member
Messages
441
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
As long as the "debating" is debating and not insulting... there are some who do go on the attack just because of you having a different opinion... I would be all for pier reviews as that is about changing minds and setting records straight, p.s I love reading through the debates, very informative.

You can not change minds with insults, insults show defeat!
 
  • Like
Reactions: ziggy_w and Salvia

Hotpepper20000

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,065
I love the phrase "raise your words not your voice."
Intelligent lively debate does not require insults or belittling.
And so what if someone has a different view or experience? It does nothing to diminish our personal experience.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Salvia

ally1

Expert
Messages
5,402
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Dislikes
liver
I love this forum because it's got me where I am with my diabetes, as in eating etc. That's because we have the same illness whether to or t2.
Full of great advice. Like meds for us, some work for some and not others, some react to certain meds some Don, t
 

leslie10152

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,110
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Ignorance
Fantastic post @leslie10152.

Perhaps a thread should be started called "peer reviewed" and once a new idea has been reviewed or many people acknowledge it then it should be moved there. Because I suspect there are many good facts buried in the posts too hard to find. For example - someone posted about fermented milk the other day - amazing - but I bet that has been before and the summary could of been posted along with apple cider vinegar, cinnamon, turmeric etc.
I like the idea.