Self diagnosing noob - Am I doing this right?

Should I continue eating all the snacks and cola or not?


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    2

DodgyD

Member
Messages
24
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
Diet only
gILWc14.jpg

DatWDv0.jpg


whoa *** is happening? Sleep deprivation is pretty normal for me although these days I do less all-nighters. Went to sleep at 6am and got up at 11.30am and was happy to see no significant impact on my glucose levels. That is... until I drank some all natural squeezed mango juice which spiked me crazy high, ate some mushroom and meat dish that preceded a crash to 3.2. I feel kinda ok though, just sleep deprived. I speculate that the sleep deprivation is masking any awareness of a glucose crash? Does that sound plausible?

All thoughts, advice, or insights welcome :)
 

DodgyD

Member
Messages
24
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
Diet only
Feeling the crash now.

Sweating,
Exhausted,
slight head ache,
slightly nauseous,
Blurry vision. damnit. Very much not OK with blurry vision, I love driving/riding/racing :/
 

DodgyD

Member
Messages
24
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
Diet only
4QSSVls.png


I do some technical analysis on forex and crypto markets. It's a bit obvious but based on my chart analysis I have a high likelihood of stabilizing back up around 4.5~ish.

Just a bit of fun :)
 

DodgyD

Member
Messages
24
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
Diet only
https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/features/diabetes-sleep-connection#1

They simulated a 5-day work week with nights of 5 hours of sleep. They included times that subjects were wide awake and eating when they should’ve been sleeping. Next, they noted when participants’ melatoninlevels were highest. (Melatonin is a hormone that helps regulate sleep.) Normally, that’s when you’re supposed to be asleep. But scientists found that if it stayed high after the subjects woke up, their bodies were less sensitive to the effects of insulin. In fact, it was 20% lower.

:banghead:
 

kokhongw

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,394
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
gILWc14.jpg

DatWDv0.jpg


whoa *** is happening? Sleep deprivation is pretty normal for me although these days I do less all-nighters. Went to sleep at 6am and got up at 11.30am and was happy to see no significant impact on my glucose levels. That is... until I drank some all natural squeezed mango juice which spiked me crazy high, ate some mushroom and meat dish that preceded a crash to 3.2. I feel kinda ok though, just sleep deprived. I speculate that the sleep deprivation is masking any awareness of a glucose crash? Does that sound plausible?

All thoughts, advice, or insights welcome :)

The problem here is that we do not have a home insulin meter. We are only using glucose meter as a proxy to diagnose reactive hypoglycemia...

We would get a clearer picture if we are able to see and track the insulin response. The reason why a low carb high fat approach seems effective is that such a diet has the least insulin requirement...and maintain very stable glucose/insulin energy levels all day long.
upload_2017-10-29_17-33-8.png


http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/newbie-guide-to-t2d.1858/
 

DodgyD

Member
Messages
24
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
Diet only
The problem here is that we do not have a home insulin meter. We are only using glucose meter as a proxy to diagnose reactive hypoglycemia...

We would get a clearer picture if we are able to see and track the insulin response. The reason why a low carb high fat approach seems effective is that such a diet has the least insulin requirement...and maintain very stable glucose/insulin energy levels all day long.
View attachment 24335

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/blog-entry/newbie-guide-to-t2d.1858/

Interesting...

Is there such a thing as a home insulin meter?

I hadn't considered the possibility of my being diabetic due to (until today) my consistently low glucose levels. I understand from the link you provided that the pre-diagnosis phase of people with T2D is high levels of insulin. My testing with glucose strips thus far only tells us what my glucose levels are. Are you suggesting that if I could monitor my insulin levels we could determine whether this is or is not the cause of my low glucose levels?

From what I understand, low carb high fat diets can circumvent the problems I appear to be having. If I were to return to the UK and seek proper medical care, are there more desirable outcomes than just figuring out a diet that keeps my glucose more balanced?

If I were to return to the UK, what does NHS support for these kind of problems look like? I've been living abroad for 7+ years and have not seen a GP in longer than that. Also is there anything in the way of benefits for 30+ year olds dealing with these problems. It would be really challenging to move back and give up my current income and lifestyle. Honestly I'm not sure what I would do back in the UK these days... :/

If there was a reliable support network so that I could function while focusing on dealing with my health issues, it would make all the difference.

The more I learn about all this the more I appreciate how serious it might be, and how costly this condition has been to my life so far. I used to think that this is just what living was; now I understand that those occasional good days are what living is supposed to be like.

I'm so grateful to all of you for helping me learn more about this.
 

kokhongw

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,394
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
@DodgyD Unfortunately, the technology for home insulin meter is not available.

In fact very few Dr offers OGTT with insulin test to confirm reactive hypoglycemia or a hypoglycemia condition such as yours.

Some of us are able to make the connection only after our T2D diagnosis and stumbled upon the information that years or decades before we became T2D, we had experience frequent hypoglycemic events without realizing what it was. It was simply brushed off as being grow spurts etc...just eat more frequently.

But in reality it is the beginning of a metabolic dysfunction or loss of metabolic balance that was not recognized. Dr Joseph Kraft correctly identified that this should be the early stage or progression of T2D...even before there loss of glycemic control. At this stage, the pancreas is still capable of producing large amount of insulin to hold the glucose level with normal/healthy range. But over time, if there is no change in diet, there will be beta cells exhaustion and more frequent glucose spikes and crashes.

Understanding this early in life gives us the chance to prevent further deterioration of the condition. Knowing that we can be fueled by both glucose and ketones help us to provide our brain and body with alternative stable energy sources to counter the effects of low blood glucose. Consider adding some virgin coconut oil/butter to your coffee.
 
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DodgyD

Member
Messages
24
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
Diet only
@DodgyD Unfortunately, the technology for home insulin meter is not available.

In fact very few Dr offers OGTT with insulin test to confirm reactive hypoglycemia or a hypoglycemia condition such as yours.

Some of us are able to make the connection only after our T2D diagnosis and stumbled upon the information that years or decades before we became T2D, we had experience frequent hypoglycemic events without realizing what it was. It was simply brushed off as being grow spurts etc...just eat more frequently.

But in reality it is the beginning of a metabolic dysfunction or loss of metabolic balance that was not recognized. Dr Joseph Kraft correctly identified that this should be the early stage or progression of T2D...even before there loss of glycemic control. At this stage, the pancreas is still capable of producing large amount of insulin to hold the glucose level with normal/healthy range. But over time, if there is no change in diet, there will be beta cells exhaustion and more frequent glucose spikes and crashes.

Understanding this early in life gives us the chance to prevent further deterioration of the condition. Knowing that we can be fueled by both glucose and ketones help us to provide our brain and body with alternative stable energy sources to counter the effects of low blood glucose. Consider adding some virgin coconut oil/butter to your coffee.

Actually I have some coconut oil in the fridge atm. I have a friend nearby that went on a pure ketones diet too and it has helped him tremendously, so the idea isn't entirely foreign to me. While I am obviously lacking a proper medical examination it seems that in the end, I'll be best of focusing on a low carb high fat diet anyway.

If that is the case then I can make those changes by myself. However if there is something critical I'm not aware of that really demands regular visits to quality healthcare I'd consider coming back the UK.

Not really sure if that is necessary at this point.
 
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Kaz261

Well-Known Member
Messages
413
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
Diet only
Actually I have some coconut oil in the fridge atm. I have a friend nearby that went on a pure ketones diet too and it has helped him tremendously, so the idea isn't entirely foreign to me. While I am obviously lacking a proper medical examination it seems that in the end, I'll be best of focusing on a low carb high fat diet anyway.

If that is the case then I can make those changes by myself. However if there is something critical I'm not aware of that really demands regular visits to quality healthcare I'd consider coming back the UK.

Not really sure if that is necessary at this point.

Hi @DodgyD, my experience would suggest you may be wasting your time in returning to the UK, from the perspective that regular follow up visits and check ups don't appear to be necessary. Although a definite diagnosis and tests to rule out other possible conditions would be prudent and hopefully put your mind at ease.

I was diagnosed with RH approx 2 years ago now and unless I request blood tests (for example A1C or cholesterol etc) during a GP visit, they don't get checked. I guess this is due to me not being registered as diabetic and I therefore don't get the regular checks that a diabetic patient would.

I manage my own condition through eating a significantly reduced carb diet, but not low carb as others on here do. I have more energy than I have for years (although still have the occasional off day) and don't experience anywhere near as many of those horrible dizzy, sweaty, anxious, jittery spells that were a daily occurrence in the early days.

This is of course just my experience. Others in the U.K may well get a better level of care than I do. Unfortunately, this seems to largely depend on how good your GP or Endocrinologist is.

I hope you find some answers and start to feel better very soon.
 

DodgyD

Member
Messages
24
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi @DodgyD, my experience would suggest you may be wasting your time in returning to the UK, from the perspective that regular follow up visits and check ups don't appear to be necessary. Although a definite diagnosis and tests to rule out other possible conditions would be prudent and hopefully put your mind at ease.

I was diagnosed with RH approx 2 years ago now and unless I request blood tests (for example A1C or cholesterol etc) during a GP visit, they don't get checked. I guess this is due to me not being registered as diabetic and I therefore don't get the regular checks that a diabetic patient would.

I manage my own condition through eating a significantly reduced carb diet, but not low carb as others on here do. I have more energy than I have for years (although still have the occasional off day) and don't experience anywhere near as many of those horrible dizzy, sweaty, anxious, jittery spells that were a daily occurrence in the early days.

This is of course just my experience. Others in the U.K may well get a better level of care than I do. Unfortunately, this seems to largely depend on how good your GP or Endocrinologist is.

I hope you find some answers and start to feel better very soon.

Thanks for the input Kaz I appreciate it. I reckon I'll wind up doing something similar. With the insight I am learning now it seems doable to control my energy in much the same way you too. I will seek an initial consultation during my next trip just in case. :)
 
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Lamont D

Oracle
Messages
15,796
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Even with my great endocrinologist, and I was lucky to get him, the advice is still in the dark ages in the NHS, regardless of what diagnosis you get.
You definitely have something going on and it would be wrong for me to try to be specific.
A ketogenic diet would reduce your insulin resistance, your circulating insulin, your blood glucose levels, within a few weeks. Not triggering the excess insulin would also improve your sleep, your health and alleviate your symptoms.

I had some shocking nights, maybe a couple of hours each night, on sleeping tablets that just made it worse and the Technicolour nightmares dreams! Wow!
I only sleep or dream like that if I'm ill with a cold or out of ketosis

You had the symptoms from the mango juice, that is too much fructose, if you like fruit like I do, only very small pieces throughout the day, or combine it with something that has full fat, like cream, yoghurt or cheese, or something that would slow the digestion down. The higher the fat content the lower the carb levels.

I would keep testing and take your time finding what is good for you, eliminating the baddies. You must still have high insulin because you keep going low quickly. It should be a lot longer in time but I'm only guessing.

Keep learning, asking, posting.

It is control that is the aim and as @kokhongw graph shows, that it is possible to be healthy being in control.

Best wishes
 
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Lamont D

Oracle
Messages
15,796
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Sorry, in one of your posts, you asked if it was insulin that was causing your low blood glucose levels.

Yes, it is!

You are creating either in your first or second insulin response, a surplus of insulin which if it is circulating around, when you trigger more insulin when you eat again, it will happen again. You have an imbalance in your glucose/insulin phase of digestion.
It is a metabolic condition, that can be controlled through diet only.

The viscous circle that creates this scenario is exacerbated by the increasing insulin resistance and high circulating insulin, leading to higher glucose levels. Then because of the insulin response and excess insulin, the lows.
You are continually in fluctuating blood glucose levels, up and down, hyper from the meals, then hypos from the excess insulin.
You have corrected it somewhat, to a certain extent but the symptoms will come back quickly if you have too many carbs.
 

DodgyD

Member
Messages
24
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
Diet only
Sorry, in one of your posts, you asked if it was insulin that was causing your low blood glucose levels.

Yes, it is!

You are creating either in your first or second insulin response, a surplus of insulin which if it is circulating around, when you trigger more insulin when you eat again, it will happen again. You have an imbalance in your glucose/insulin phase of digestion.
It is a metabolic condition, that can be controlled through diet only.

The viscous circle that creates this scenario is exacerbated by the increasing insulin resistance and high circulating insulin, leading to higher glucose levels. Then because of the insulin response and excess insulin, the lows.
You are continually in fluctuating blood glucose levels, up and down, hyper from the meals, then hypos from the excess insulin.
You have corrected it somewhat, to a certain extent but the symptoms will come back quickly if you have too many carbs.

OK thanks, I think I get it.

Basically no matter where I go, the best thing I can do is monitor my glucose levels and figure out how to keep them stable. Pretty much just what I have been doing so far? :)
 
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Lamont D

Oracle
Messages
15,796
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Hi Lamont,
Have you had your insulin measured during the first phase of the blood glucose peak?
ATB
Derek
Yes, during an eOGTT and since, I know it was low, but not the exact figure.
ATB mate, you ok?
 

Lamont D

Oracle
Messages
15,796
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
OK thanks, I think I get it.

Basically no matter where I go, the best thing I can do is monitor my glucose levels and figure out how to keep them stable. Pretty much just what I have been doing so far? :)

As Hypoglycaemia is caused by what you eat, then it's logical to control it by dietary management.
I know that fasting also helps after a couple of months of steady glucose levels.
But doing things to alter your metabolism takes time.
You have to find your balance of protein, fats and carbohydrates.
And only testing, testing, recording and experimentation. Then more testing, recording, experience and experimenting will get you there.
You have different tastes, food source and environmental issues, I can't dictate what you eat, but your diet should now be more based on protein and high saturated fats, very low carb and stay away from high carbs, low fat food.
Fresh food, meals cooked from scratch, no processed foods. High fat dairy is recommended, but I'm intolerant to dairy (except Greek full fat yoghurt!) Don't know why!
This is a lifestyle change, the food that should be staple diet is not healthy for you, bread is one of the worst, potatoes are evil to me! (I went to mid teens from normal when I tested for a baked spuds) grains are awful.
So I just don't eat them. Avoiding these baddies makes me healthy!

Keep asking, keep posting, keep getting knowledge.

Test, test test, record.

Best wishes
 

lindisfel

Expert
Messages
5,659
Yes, during an eOGTT and since, I know it was low, but not the exact figure.
ATB mate, you ok?
Hi Lamont,
I'm fine and started to use an exercise bike to improve my fitness. Got up to an equivalent of 10k now.
But at 78 what can one expect with a pacemaker and afib? :)

What I thought at first phase! So does that mean it's not insulin resistance? There certainly is very little resistance when we stack away bg later and we hypo!
regards
Derek
 

Lamont D

Oracle
Messages
15,796
Type of diabetes
Reactive hypoglycemia
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
Hi Lamont,
I'm fine and started to use an exercise bike to improve my fitness. Got up to an equivalent of 10k now.
But at 78 what can one expect with a pacemaker and afib? :)

What I thought at first phase! So does that mean it's not insulin resistance? There certainly is very little resistance when we stack away bg later and we hypo!
regards
Derek

Hi Derek,
Glad you're okay!
It all depends on how much the insulin resistance interferes with the insulin response.
If your first insulin response is poor due to whatever reason, the second will almost counter and overshoot the amount of glucose still there.
The amount of insulin should be balanced to the amount of glucose produced but it isnt.
Getting a lower insulin resistance will help obviously.
And if you low carb the background insulin and just the poor insulin response should be enough to cope and stop the extra insulin response.
The more time without excess insulin and the lower your insulin resistance is, the first insulin response should be better at coping with the glucose derived from the food you eat.
Hope that helps.
But, (isn't there always!)
Other hormones and the likes of beta cells, glucagon, glycogen, your liver and meds will give you different cocktail of circumstances. And what we eat and drink!

Best wishes mate.
 
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