Ditch The Statins

[JohnEGreen]

And meanwhile the plan is to medicate whole populations? I cannot see the logic in that at all.

Including children under the age of 10 crazy idea IMO.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

My father takes statins and I have sent him ubiquinol/co Q10 but not sure if that is enough since he is of the opinion that he should do as he is told by his GP.

I had done a lot of reading around the subject but I'm no expert, but then neither are GPs, they do what NICE says. I had read more than my brain could cope with and eventually just made a decision based on my experience. As a result of my low carb approach my total cholesterol dropped to 4 anyway and I will not be persuaded to take meds for high cholesterol. Somebody did hint at taking statins again, but as soon a the person said the side effects weren't the same I smelled a rat, actually I smelled BS.

I think doing as the GP says has to be one's first choice, until the side effects become more than one feels tolerable.

 

[JohnEGreen]

What doctors advise and promote changes over time some times slowly some times not. In a few years doctors may not be so keen on statins as they are now. But will they then admit that the advise they give now was totally wrong no it will be exused or rationalised in some way.

I don't think many doctors would seriously suggest a lobotomy for schizophrenia or other mental health conditions in this day and age, nor blood letting for fever or even trapaning. Now they use the term craniectomy and its mostly used to relieve inter cranial pressure not to keep people docile.

 

[bulkbiker]

I don't think many doctors would seriously suggest a lobotomy for schizophrenia or other mental health conditions in this day and age, nor blood letting for fever or even trapaning. Now they use the term craniectomy and its mostly used to relieve inter cranial pressure not to keep people docile.

At least that’s what we would hope.. Never letting my doc get me on the table just in case!

 

[carol43]

I shared the film Statin Nation with my friends on a small chat site and they are friends as we have all met each other. Anyways I have had a response from some of them saying the film really opened their eyes. Frank says that he was put on statins and his cholesterol is now 2 and he is full of aches and pains. Reply from Wendy Well had a full triglycerides blood test. And amazingly, it's now 6.1. Which it's been for years. He tried to put me on low dose statin. I said no ta. He said you need to diet properly then. !!! And exercise. I showed him the soles of my 6 month old work shoes. And told him what I ate !!!! This is the same lad that told me open a window for night sweats when I saw him about please getting help for menopause as I was now reaching a very low point !!

None of them has the breakdown given to them.

 

[KK123]

The thing that annoys me about the statin debate is that high cholesterol is viewed in the same way that diabetes is, ie, it's your own fault! It simply must be that you are eating rubbish, not exercising, overweight etc. I have high cholesterol (8 total with 0.5 trigs and 2.45 HDL), I am at the lower end of the bmi chart, exercise manically and always have done, don't smoke, don't drink and follow a lowish carb diet (I don't even follow the high fat bit...I know, I know, I'm too afraid!) and still my Doctor goes on and on about 'What are you eating'!!! I don't have FH as far as I know. What else can I do? Even after I told her all that she said well you've got 3 months to improve it and then we'll talk about statins. I really think that this cholesterol level is just me, I have always had high cholesterol, pre diabetes diagnosis, during diabetes diagnosis and post diabetes diagnosis, it's natural for me as far as I am concerned and nothing I do changes it. I know statins would lower it artificially but surely my body knows what it is doing. I sympathise greatly with anyone who doesn't look the part and has high cholesterol, I felt ashamed enough even knowing I follow a text book lifestyle.

 

[bulkbiker]

The thing that annoys me about the statin debate is that high cholesterol is viewed in the same way that diabetes is, ie, it's your own fault! It simply must be that you are eating rubbish, not exercising, overweight etc. I have high cholesterol (8 total with 0.5 trigs and 2.45 HDL), I am at the lower end of the bmi chart, exercise manically and always have done, don't smoke, don't drink and follow a lowish carb diet (I don't even follow the high fat bit...I know, I know, I'm too afraid!) and still my Doctor goes on and on about 'What are you eating'!!! I don't have FH as far as I know. What else can I do? Even after I told her all that she said well you've got 3 months to improve it and then we'll talk about statins. I really think that this cholesterol level is just me, I have always had high cholesterol, pre diabetes diagnosis, during diabetes diagnosis and post diabetes diagnosis, it's natural for me as far as I am concerned and nothing I do changes it. I know statins would lower it artificially but surely my body knows what it is doing. I sympathise greatly with anyone who doesn't look the part and has high cholesterol, I felt ashamed enough even knowing I follow a text book lifestyle.

Wow your Trigs HDL ratio is amazing..
I want it please.. sounds like you might be a lean mass hyper responder.. check out www.cholesterolcode.com. Dave Feldman is doing amazing research into cholesterol way more detailed than your GP... your u can blind him with science next time you meet...

 

[KK123]

Wow your Trigs HDL ratio is amazing..
I want it please.. sounds like you might be a lean mass hyper responder.. check out www.cholesterolcode.com. Dave Feldman is doing amazing research into cholesterol way more detailed than your GP... your u can blind him with science next time you meet...

Well thank you bulkbiker, actually having read your previous posts I was tempted to say to my Doc, listen mate, Bulkbiker says......I will read the link and appreciate your response!

 

[bulkbiker]

Well thank you bulkbiker, actually having read your previous posts I was tempted to say to my Doc, listen mate, Bulkbiker says......I will read the link and appreciate your response!

No worries I hope you (and your doc?) find it informative.

 

[lindisfel]

Just throwing one in the pot.
Some of our luminaries are not so anti statin as many of us are on some low carb forums
Prof.Phinney, for example, in a YouTube video points out that inflammation in the body. Re:CRP marker, is considerably reduced by taken a statin, thus reducing heart attacks. Not the reduction in LDL, but a parallel process.

Perhaps one should discuss this with our medics if we have high CRP.

On the other hand, Red wine, Omega three oily fish, olive oil and a supplement vitamin of E can reduce inflammation appreciably.
D.

 

[Guzzler]

For me it all boils down to trust. When a HCP tells me "That's impossible" when I report pain and weakness within a week of starting a drug and when another HCP uses fear tactics to convince me to take said drug for its supposed potential benefit ignoring the impact on my quality of life and when the scientific data on the drug is incomplete at best and manipulated beyond recognition at worst I tend, call me cynical, to wonder if they have my best interests at heart. No pun intended.

As for a comment upthread about 'phantom pain' I resent the implication.

Edited for typos.

 

[Indy51]

The thing that annoys me about the statin debate is that high cholesterol is viewed in the same way that diabetes is, ie, it's your own fault! It simply must be that you are eating rubbish, not exercising, overweight etc. I have high cholesterol (8 total with 0.5 trigs and 2.45 HDL), I am at the lower end of the bmi chart, exercise manically and always have done, don't smoke, don't drink and follow a lowish carb diet (I don't even follow the high fat bit...I know, I know, I'm too afraid!) and still my Doctor goes on and on about 'What are you eating'!!! I don't have FH as far as I know. What else can I do? Even after I told her all that she said well you've got 3 months to improve it and then we'll talk about statins. I really think that this cholesterol level is just me, I have always had high cholesterol, pre diabetes diagnosis, during diabetes diagnosis and post diabetes diagnosis, it's natural for me as far as I am concerned and nothing I do changes it. I know statins would lower it artificially but surely my body knows what it is doing. I sympathise greatly with anyone who doesn't look the part and has high cholesterol, I felt ashamed enough even knowing I follow a text book lifestyle.

You might want to watch this video presentation that @DaveKeto just gave on lean mass hyper-responders. I believe there is also now a Facebook group where the LMHR gang are hanging out

(This is the rough cut - apparently an edited version will be available later.)

 

[bulkbiker]

Just throwing one in the pot.
Some of our luminaries are not so anti statin as many of us are on some low carb forums
Prof.Phinney, for example, in a YouTube video points out that inflammation in the body. Re:CRP marker, is considerably reduced by taken a statin, thus reducing heart attacks. Not the reduction in LDL, but a parallel process.

Perhaps one should discuss this with our medics if we have high CRP.

On the other hand, Red wine, Omega three oily fish, olive oil and a supplement vitamin of E can reduce inflammation appreciably.
D.

Prof Phinney is also fairly anti extended fasting too... everyone has their own opinions not always based on much..

 

[millenium]

From two cases of stroke patient rushing to a&e of a hospital, it seems to me giving them 40mg of atorvastatin and a blood thinner immediately is one of the first thing the doc do. After that, they will do mri and other scanning once they can.

 

[JohnEGreen]

Then maybe a good hefty dose of diamorphine you know just to send them on their way.

 

[lindisfel]

I’d dearly love to hear him explain exactly how the statin achieves that.

It calcifies the plaque!
Seriously, in lieu of a low carb high goods fats diet they do reduce inflammation hence reduce plaque formation as do ARBs.
D.

 

[Daphne917]

For me it all boils down to trust. When a HCP tells me "That's impossible" when I report pain and weakness within a week of starting a drug and when another HCP uses fear tactics to convince me to take said drug for its supposed potential benefit ignoring the impact on my quality of life and when the scientific data on the drug is incomplete at best and manipulated beyond recognition at worst I tend, call me cynical, to wonder if they have my best interests at heart. No pun intended.

As for a comment upthread about 'phantom pain' I resent the implication.

Edited for typos.

When I started taking statins my hba1c rose from 48 to 54 and other side effects inc dizziness and sleep disturbance. When I told my DN that there was a correlation between statins and increased BS she was dismissive and told me not to believe everything I read in the Daily Mail - her face was a picture when I told her it came from the companies own website!

 

[dbr10]

When I started taking statins my hba1c rose from 48 to 54 and other side effects inc dizziness and sleep disturbance. When I told my DN that there was a correlation between statins and increased BS she was dismissive and told me not to believe everything I read in the Daily Mail - her face was a picture when I told her it came from the companies own website!

I think it usually mentions it on the leaflets too.