Low B12?

[licklemoose]

i spent 20 minutes on phone to drs today to be told all urgents and on the day appointments have gone
i keep asking at my routine blood tests to get B12 tested but its never done
ive had ongoing issues for what seems like forever but they are getting worse, i was putting it down to low ferritin but been taking iron daily for over a month
fatigue
dizzy now and then
weakness
aching joints
exhausted
chest pains
short of breath
blinding headaches
stiff neck
feel weighed down
heart rate increased
short tempered and very snappy
pins and needles
constipation
increased BS
im now waiting for a dr to call me back
feels like im literally at deaths door

 

[WuTwo]

Are you vegan? We need to supplement for B12. If you're not, and you're eating meat and meat products, you're unlikely to be B12 deficient tbh.

One 3.5-ounce (100-gram) serving of beef contains about 6.2 mcg of vitamin B12. That’s 102% of the RDI. -
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-b12-foods#section4

If you are vegan/veggie and not supplementing (nutritional yeast, fortified foods or actual vitamin supplements) then it is a possibility.

 

[wiflib]

Are you vegan? We need to supplement for B12. If you're not, and you're eating meat and meat products, you're unlikely to be B12 deficient tbh.

One 3.5-ounce (100-gram) serving of beef contains about 6.2 mcg of vitamin B12. That’s 102% of the RDI. -
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-b12-foods#section4

If you are vegan/veggie and not supplementing (nutritional yeast, fortified foods or actual vitamin supplements) then it is a possibility.

Icklemoose takes metformin. All metformin users should have their B12 levels checked regularly.

 

[WuTwo]

Icklemoose takes metformin. All metformin users should have their B12 levels checked regularly.

Thank you. When my husband (T2 in remission) was on metformin I don't think he was checked. Ah well, bit late now!

 

[wiflib]

Thank you. When my husband (T2 in remission) was on metformin I don't think he was checked. Ah well, bit late now!

I think it may be a relatively new guideline but I’m not sure.

It may still be worth getting checked though, I have a feeling that once it is low, it’s hard to increase naturally. A bit like eating rice that’s not been pre rinsed and not cooked in plenty of water; the arsenic builds up.

 

[WuTwo]

I think it may be a relatively new guideline but I’m not sure.

It may still be worth getting checked though, I have a feeling that once it is low, it’s hard to increase naturally. A bit like eating rice that’s not been pre rinsed and not cooked in plenty of water; the arsenic builds up.

Yeah - usually a B12 deficiency requires injections; supplementation won't suffice. Easier not to let it get low in the first place, but I understand meds affecting uptake. I have abnormally low sodium all the time because the drug I take for my epilepsy affects it.

I'll mention it to my husband - many thanks!

 

[licklemoose]

Are you vegan? We need to supplement for B12. If you're not, and you're eating meat and meat products, you're unlikely to be B12 deficient tbh.

One 3.5-ounce (100-gram) serving of beef contains about 6.2 mcg of vitamin B12. That’s 102% of the RDI. -
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-b12-foods#section4

If you are vegan/veggie and not supplementing (nutritional yeast, fortified foods or actual vitamin supplements) then it is a possibility.

i eat lots of meat

 

[licklemoose]

Icklemoose takes metformin. All metformin users should have their B12 levels checked regularly.

dr just called and said he dont think its B12 as my results last year were good b12 460ng/L (180-915.0) also checking folate as ferritin is low and im on spatone
hes only checking because i said it should be checked as im on metformin

 

[kitedoc]

i eat lots of meat

Other conditions like coeliac disease can cause poor absorption of one or more vitamins or minerals. But i as a patiennt with such symptoms you might see it as reasonable perhaps to one's B12 level checked to make sure it is not falling as a response to Metformin ir some other condition.

 

[Energize]

@licklemoose
Yes, as already said above, the absorption of Vit B12 can be affected by Metformin, plus medications to lower the acid in stomach, ie Ranitidine, Omeprazole, Lansoprazole etc. There are other meds that can affect this too.

After some time, some of the symptoms become irreversible

Unfortunately, HCP do not seem to have much, if any, knowledge regarding the importance of B12 and, even if your levels are towards the lower end of the 'range', they will accept that as 'normal' and tell you you're not deficient. Some HCPs are knowledgeable though, apparently

After several tests, a lot of research and trying to convince my GP that my B12 was too low (in spite of being low - out of range!) I was told it was 'fine'. Eventually, out of desparation, I decided to self-inject and soon began feeling very much better. Even the GP has seen the improvement (energy, mood, personality etc) he, of course, doesn't comment!!!

Hydroxocobalamin (Vit B12) is water soluble so body will excrete excess in urine toxic, (so considered to not be toxic) and is relatively cheap to buy, although not available in UK without prescription. Getting diagnosed and prescribed B12 injections can often be a very difficult road.

Taking oral B12 will help only if you don't have an absorption issue although sublingual medications OTC seem to help some. If you begin to supplement, any testing will be skewed so best to hold off until you have a diagnosis or until you decide to self-treat.

PM me if you want further details

 

[Energize]

dr just called and said he dont think its B12 as my results last year were good b12 460ng/L (180-915.0) also checking folate as ferritin is low and im on spatone
hes only checking because i said it should be checked as im on metformin

Sounds like GP doesn't appreciate the importance of Vit B12 deficiency, nor the NICE guidelines!!!

As said above, other conditions can prevent absorption of Vit B12, especially bowel conditions or bowel surgery, including Bariatric surgery.

 

[kitedoc]

@licklemoose
Yes, as already said above, the absorption of Vit B12 can be affected by Metformin, plus medications to lower the acid in stomach, ie Ranitidine, Omeprazole, Lansoprazole etc. There are other meds that can affect this too.

After some time, some of the symptoms become irreversible

Unfortunately, HCP do not seem to have much, if any, knowledge regarding the importance of B12 and, even if your levels are towards the lower end of the 'range', they will accept that as 'normal' and tell you you're not deficient. Some HCPs are knowledgeable though, apparently

After several tests, a lot of research and trying to convince my GP that my B12 was too low (in spite of being low - out of range!) I was told it was 'fine'. Eventually, out of desparation, I decided to self-inject and soon began feeling very much better. Even the GP has seen the improvement (energy, mood, personality etc) he, of course, doesn't comment!!!

Hydroxocobalamin (Vit B12) is water soluble so body will excrete excess in urine toxic, (so considered to not be toxic) and is relatively cheap to buy, although not available in UK without prescription. Getting diagnosed and prescribed B12 injections can often be a very difficult road.

Taking oral B12 will help only if you don't have an absorption issue although sublingual medications OTC seem to help some. If you begin to supplement, any testing will be skewed so best to hold off until you have a diagnosis or until you decide to self-treat.

PM me if you want further details

One has be careful of missing some underlying problem by taking B12 injections though. Maybe getting a second opinion from another doctor is best first and trying to ensure a full history, examination anfpd investigations are done to sort out symptoms.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

dr just called and said he dont think its B12 as my results last year were good b12 460ng/L (180-915.0) also checking folate as ferritin is low and im on spatone
hes only checking because i said it should be checked as im on metformin

Did you have any of these symptoms last year when your levels were checked?

Oh, and any other medications?
The range of symptoms is not far off those I had on statins.

 

[Energize]

A good introduction to B12 defiency is this film (below) It's a 'fun' film but with a very stong message re Vit B12. There is also a book of the same title which is more factual, with lots of references, by the same author

Once I got started on the research, I realised there are so many others with the same problems and HCPs not listening to them!!!

 

[HSSS]

I’m having similar issues. Last year I was 159 and told it was fine. I disagreed and used sublingual to raise levels to above the 800’s in 2 months. Felt much better. Now this year the levels have dropped back to 300’s and still falling. Drs still insisting that’s fine with no explanations as to why with a b12 rich diet and no drugs that might cause issues it’s dropping so rapidly, stores are supposed to last a few years. I’m holding off of supplements again til next blood test next week. Then I’m taking them again. I’m assuming it’s some sort of absorption problem but I can’t get them to take me seriously either.

Incidentally I also have persistently low ferretin and spa tone is nowhere near strong enough for me. Liver seems to work best. Then ferrous sulphate or fumerate.

 

[Energize]

One has be careful of missing some underlying problem by taking B12 injections though. Maybe getting a second opinion from another doctor is best first and trying to ensure a full history, examination anfpd investigations are done to sort out symptoms.

I agree, if only it was that easy. Even the 'specialists' don't seem to understand Vit B12 deficiency and will diagnose other conditions, ie Parkinsons, MS etc. It seems there's little teaching during training.

It's definitely worth doing your own research and not relying on HCPs entirely, I'm afraid to say

 

[WuTwo]

I would always recomment first of all having specific tests to confirm or negate a belief. The test will reveal a deficiency, but after that it's important to know the cause surely? Not just to treat without knowing if there is an underlying cause that treatment will simply mask.

@LittleGreyCat said the symptoms correspond to their response to statins, so it might not even be a B12 deficiency.

Best to get tested first, surely?

 

[DCUKMod]

Are you vegan? We need to supplement for B12. If you're not, and you're eating meat and meat products, you're unlikely to be B12 deficient tbh.

One 3.5-ounce (100-gram) serving of beef contains about 6.2 mcg of vitamin B12. That’s 102% of the RDI. -
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-b12-foods#section4

If you are vegan/veggie and not supplementing (nutritional yeast, fortified foods or actual vitamin supplements) then it is a possibility.

I'd challenge the unlikely to be B12 short in meat eaters.

I am an omnivore, but eat meat most days, and plenty of it. I have never taken Metformin, yet I am currently having to supplement with a decent B complex.

Those with wonky thyroids often develop nitamin issues, particularly around D, B12, ferritin and folate. Without those being at decent levels it is very difficult to get the best out of any thyroid hormones taken, and symptoms often persist.

I use a thyroid forum and a great percentage find themselves in a similar situation to myself. Incidences of thyroid irregularities are very common indeed - especially for women.

 

[WuTwo]

I think the idea that meat is sufficient assumes that one is otherwise healthy. Apologies for not posting caveats etc.

 

[Resurgam]

my thyroid has been defunct for a very long time, and I have found, only recently, that taking folic acid a couple of times a week resolves my insomnia and vivid dreams problems.