Use of CGM in Non Diabetics

[Listlad]

There appears to be quite a few cases where those without a diabetes diagnosis have researched the potential benefit of the use of a continuous glucose monitor to non diabetics. A quick google brings up quite a lot of material on this including some interesting trials. The question of why is often addressed and typically better glucose control is one typical answer given.

Here are a number of such sources.

Cost for the average individual is a factor in the potential usage of these devices so they would need to be cheaper than they are today but typically new technology ends up that way anyway.

https://time.com/4703099/continuous-glucose-monitor-blood-sugar-diabetes/

https://lilynicholsrdn.com/cgm-experiment-non-diabetic-continuous-glucose-monitor/

https://forum.fudiabetes.org/t/gp-wears-freestyle-libre/8282

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/p...ood-sugar-and-improve-their-health-2018-09-10

https://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/67/Supplement_1/1542-P

There are more. Undoubtedly there are benefits to those that are non diabetic from the wearing of one of these devices. The sources make very interesting reading and it is easy to see where the benefit might be derived.

One potential area of interest and benefit might also be in the area of T2 prevention.

Does this forum conclude that these devices are of no use to non diabetics and if so then why?

 

[Listlad]

Obviously this forum sees no merit in the topic or doesn’t care. One or the other.

 

[chrisonator70]

I think that it's an interesting topic for sure. I am a healthy non-diabetic 19 year old and I have recently been checking my blood sugar on occasion due to a family history of diabetes/ heart disease, and I wanted to see what different foods would do to my glucose. I am actually surprised at how variable it is even as a young non-diabetic. I have seen it as high as 200 right after a bunch of pizza! I think many people have this idea that a non diabetics blood sugar never gets above 120, but thats clearly not true based on most studies that I have looked at. They generally spend a significant portion of the day above 140, anywhere from 20 min per day to a few hours per day (lots of heterogeneity). My glycemic responses also show this although mine may betowards the higher end of normal.
This fact that healthy non diabetics blood sugar is so very variable means that there is a great opportunity to be had with non diabetics wearing cgm's if it could help them see what foods are causing the unhealthy spikes and then avoid them. Maybe not permanently, but just for a few weeks to get an idea.

 

[Ronancastled]

The GP wears freestyle libre link above is very enlightening.
I remember seeing a 160 (8.8) spike once after a heavy carb pasta meal & having a canary, wish I'd known about this research earlier.

 

[KK123]

The GP wears freestyle libre link above is very enlightening.
I remember seeing a 160 (8.8) spike once after a heavy carb pasta meal & having a canary, wish I'd known about this research earlier.

I've just read that one as I have recently started on a libre. My graphs roughly match his and are actually better! It makes me realise that even non diabetics have levels that go up and down way beyond this 'magic' 7.8 number that people go on about, 'go above that and you'll lose a toe' etc. That mantra can really make people feel stressed when it is actually impossible to stay under that 7.8 all the time. Fascinating stuff I reckon & thanks to @Listlad for posting.

 

[Ronancastled]

I've just read that one as I have recently started on a libre. My graphs roughly match his and are actually better! It makes me realise that even non diabetics have levels that go up and down way beyond this 'magic' 7.8 number that people go on about, 'go above that and you'll lose a toe' etc. That mantra can really make people feel stressed when it is actually impossible to stay under that 7.8 all the time. Fascinating stuff I reckon & thanks to @Listlad for posting.

I believe Google & Apple are close to adding their version of a CGM to their lifestyle wearables.
The Google one uses a type of contact lens which senses glucose in your eye.
Once these become mainstream it will bring a huge awakening to the high cab diet we've been eating all these years.
Mightn't be a time to buy shares in Nestle.

 

[bulkbiker]

it is actually impossible to stay under that 7.8 all the time

? really?

 

[Member496333]

Post deleted. I don't have the will to debate the magic 7.8

 

[KK123]

? really?

It is for me but of course I appreciate that some can do it and I think my point was that going above this number doesn't automatically mean a toe is about to drop off.

 

[KK123]

Post deleted. I don't have the will to debate the magic 7.8

Come on Jim, don't be shy. I like hearing information about such things, I won't take it personally, honest. x

 

[lucylocket61]

It is for me but of course I appreciate that some can do it and I think my point was that going above this number doesn't automatically mean a toe is about to drop off.

with respect, you are type 1. Some of us type 2's can stay under 7.8 all the time, as you can see by some of the posts on this forum.

 

[KK123]

with respect, you are type 1. Some of us type 2's can stay under 7.8 all the time, as you can see by some of the posts on this forum.

Yes, of course. I was posting as a type 1.

 

[Member496333]

Come on Jim, don't be shy. I like hearing information about such things, I won't take it personally, honest. x

You may not, but I bet you 10p someone else will.

In summary, I don't believe there's such a thing as "normal" glucose in the population when an estimated ~86% of Americans, and probably not many less Britons, are already all aboard HMS Insulin Resistance. I'll leave it at that

 

[lucylocket61]

Yes, of course. I was posting as a type 1.

I am assuming, from what my friends type 1 husband their two type 1 adult sons say, that it is harder for a type 1 to avoid bigger swings in their blood sugar levels? I apologise if I have used their experience and applied it to many type 1's wrongly.

 

[KK123]

You may not, but I bet you 10p someone else will.

In summary, I don't believe there's such a thing as "normal" glucose in the population when an estimated ~86% of Americans, and probably not many less Britons, are already all aboard HMS Insulin Resistance. I'll leave it at that

That's an interesting point. I tend to think the same about cholesterol as well, it's not that exact.

 

[KK123]

I am assuming, from what my friends type 1 husband their two type 2 adult sons say, that it is harder for a type 1 to avoid bigger swings in their blood sugar levels? I apologise if I have used their experience and applied it to many type 1's wrongly.

Hi Lucylocket, both have challenges of course. I think the hardest thing when using insulin is that you can NEVER inject the exact right amount bearing in mind not only food (low carb or otherwise) but all of those other influences in any given day. I guess when you are controlling it with food, it's more of an exact science?, again given several other factors.

 

[Member496333]

Really, insulin is actually supposed to counter regulate glucagon. Under the action (primarily) of glucagon, a healthy liver is supposed to constantly drip glucose into the bloodstream and maintain a flatline concentration. Insulin is supposed to temporarily block the action of glucagon when there is some extra glucose that needs dealing with. Then the levels should drop again and hand the wheel back to glucagon.

But in the modern food environment we have reversed this process and put insulin in the driving seat, which now spends 24 hours a day frantically cleaning up the landslide of glucose that people are shovelling into themselves. Unfortunately, even a CGM won’t bring attention to this until the individual is already damaged by hyperinsulinemia. In the words of the eminent Timothy Noakes; “It’s the insulin resistance, stupid”. We really need to stop obsessing over glucose (the symptom) and focus on measuring insulin (the cause).

 

[Member496333]

Hi Lucylocket, both have challenges of course. I think the hardest thing when using insulin is that you can NEVER inject the exact right amount bearing in mind not only food (low carb or otherwise) but all of those other influences in any given day. I guess when you are controlling it with food, it's more of an exact science?, again given several other factors.

This is also doubtless made more difficult for type 1 because their insulin isn’t being passed directly from the pancreas into the liver via the portal vein. This has to make accurate dosing somewhat hit and miss. It also means that at any given moment, for any given amount of circulating glucose, a person using exogenous injections will have a higher overall concentration of insulin circulating in the general bloodstream than would otherwise have been the case had the pancreas handed it directly to the neighbouring liver.

 

[HSSS]

And to be fair the “magic” 7.8mmol is the 90-120 min post prandial ideal maximum for non diabetics - not all the time or for any particular type of diabetic.

I guess it’s the goal to be in normal range at that time point. The same as below 48mmol hb1ac is the cutoff for non diabetes and 5.5mmol fasting is. https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes_care/blood-sugar-level-ranges.html

 

[lindisfel]

What would be interesting would be a comparison between their (the constant blood glucose measuring group) area under graph or average blood glucose, to see how it correlated with their hba1c from glycated blood!

This comparison done in a number of patients may give some indication how accurate or inaccurate hba1c is?
D.