Pesky dawn phenomenon

[Tweetypie]

What treatment are you on? I'm type 1 with DP. I use insulin to correct but also exercise to use it up. I don't actually eat breakfast as that just complicates it during the week.
If you are not in insulin and type 2 some people say eating something as soon as you get up helps to stop it. I think Brunerria uses cheese strings. Sounds like something with protein helps a lot of people.


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

Thanks for this. I think I am type 2 as I now control it with diet and exercise, but I was on insulin 2 years ago. Seems I will have to just eat something as soon as I am up! Will try that. Just that sometimes, I don't always feel like eating protein first thing. Will have to get into the habit I think!

 

[Mrs Vimes]

I know - 23 years of eating cereal for breakfast as a type 1, eating anything else does feel strange. You can only try until you find something that works for you.


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[AndBreathe]

Thanks for this. I think I am type 2 as I now control it with diet and exercise, but I was on insulin 2 years ago. Seems I will have to just eat something as soon as I am up! Will try that. Just that sometimes, I don't always feel like eating protein first thing. Will have to get into the habit I think!

tweetypie - as a matter of interest, when are you testing in the morning? Is it immediately you get up, or a bit later, after your shower, for example?

 

[Tweetypie]

tweetypie - as a matter of interest, when are you testing in the morning? Is it immediately you get up, or a bit later, after your shower, for example?

It depends, really. Sometimes I test after I get up, sometimes later. Sometimes I get DP, sometimes I don't. If I test later, it will only get worse, until I eat breakfast. Unfortunately what seems to directly affect it is what I eat the day before. What I really struggle with is something quick to do for breakfast, with minimal carbs as anything remotely carby will make it worse. I used to pop 2 rounds of toast in with my eyes still closed, but now I can't have bread. Even the livlife with peanut butter on it raises my BS - my body is very clever! I have been thinking about making oopsie breads as I am desperate to find something that I can just toast and spread something on of a morning - low carb of course!

 

[dlmoak]

I've been a type 2 for 30 years. I have had difficulty getting my fasting blood sugar to stay below 5.5. For the last three weeks I have been trying Intermittent Fasting (IF) and have found it to be very helpful. Basically, on days that I IF, I eat a very low carb breakfast and lunch (but they are large meals) and no dinner. I have been eating very low carb off and on for a long time (in other words, I am not always successful at doing so). I have not been snacking between meals on any days. On mornings following and IF, my glucose has been as low as 4.9. The range of fasting glucose over the last three weeks is 4.9 to 6.6, but most days are below 5.5. There are any number of ways to IF. some people don't eat for 24 hours one day a week. I skip dinner several days a week. It will be interesting to see how successful I am long term.

 

[sanguine]

That's very interesting and ties in with @Andrew Colvin 's observation that his fasting readings are often lower when he swaps light lunch and more substantial dinner around. I might give that a try.

 

[ChrisWoodward]

To be honest to me that sounds good, try going to bed with a bg of 5, 3am test 6ish and waking up at 20.

 

[Brunneria]

@Tweetypie

Wotcha and welcome to the Great DP Experiment!

I started off on cheese strings (but baby bels would be just as good), but 2.5 weeks into the experiment I switched to cashew nuts. And I'm planning to switch to Brazils on Monday.

The key ingredients that help seem to be the proteins and fats. So I wouldn't choose a low fat cheese...

Let us know how you get on!

 

[Bluetit1802]

My fasting and before meals readings have started to drop slightly over the last few days. The only thing different is I stopped taking my statins on 22nd May.
Coincidence?

 

[Tweetypie]

@Tweetypie

Wotcha and welcome to the Great DP Experiment!

I started off on cheese strings (but baby bels would be just as good), but 2.5 weeks into the experiment I switched to cashew nuts. And I'm planning to switch to Brazils on Monday.

The key ingredients that help seem to be the proteins and fats. So I wouldn't choose a low fat cheese...

Let us know how you get on!

Hello! When do you have the cheese or nuts? Is it on waking or last thing at night? At the moment I am giving coconut oil in my lemon and ginger tea a try. Just add it to my hot tea when I get up. This morning 5.4, waiting to test and see if it comes down or rises before I have breakfast. In the past, I have even been out for my walk or gone swimming (without food) and it STILL rises, DP is a nightmare. We will conquer this one!

 

[Tweetypie]

@Tweetypie

Wotcha and welcome to the Great DP Experiment!

I started off on cheese strings (but baby bels would be just as good), but 2.5 weeks into the experiment I switched to cashew nuts. And I'm planning to switch to Brazils on Monday.

The key ingredients that help seem to be the proteins and fats. So I wouldn't choose a low fat cheese...

Let us know how you get on!

Also, Brunneria, are low carbing?
Just tested and now up to 6.7, not sure the coconut oil works

 

[Tweetypie]

That's very interesting and ties in with @Andrew Colvin 's observation that his fasting readings are often lower when he swaps light lunch and more substantial dinner around. I might give that a try.

There's also a book called The Warrior Diet. It's very interesting but his is based on fasting in the day (called undereating) and then eating a lot in the evening (yes, including carbs, so I'm not sure I agree with it all). It is a good read though and promotes good clean living based on our warrior instincts

 

[Brunneria]

I have a... nervousness (fear, phobia)... about trying to sleep when hungry. It's a hang over from my multiple failed attempts at low fat calorie controlled weight loss. Oh, the wasted years...
Ok, pity fest over.

Anyway, that is the reason I have a wee snackette on my way to bed (currently 6 cashews). It is more of a token gesture really, since I'm not convinced that it makes any difference to my dawn phenomenon at all.

Then, in the morning, I have the snack of choice (again, currently cashews) before I get up. Usually within about 2 mins of opening my eyes.

 

[Brunneria]

Hello! When do you have the cheese or nuts? Is it on waking or last thing at night? At the moment I am giving coconut oil in my lemon and ginger tea a try. Just add it to my hot tea when I get up. This morning 5.4, waiting to test and see if it comes down or rises before I have breakfast. In the past, I have even been out for my walk or gone swimming (without food) and it STILL rises, DP is a nightmare. We will conquer this one!

Hi, just re-read this post, and maybe the problem is making your snack as tea...

Presumably you are moving about (bathroom, kitchen, stairs?) in order to get the tea?
That would be too much activity for me. My liver dump seems to be on a hair trigger. On a morning when I take the dog downstairs to widdle, then return to bed for the snack, my dawn phen is significantly higher than if I snack before dog widdling.

And yes, I'm low carbing.

 

[Tweetypie]

I have a... nervousness (fear, phobia)... about trying to sleep when hungry. It's a hang over from my multiple failed attempts at low fat calorie controlled weight loss. Oh, the wasted years...
Ok, pity fest over.

Anyway, that is the reason I have a wee snackette on my way to bed (currently 6 cashews). It is more of a token gesture really, since I'm not convinced that it makes any difference to my dawn phenomenon at all.

Then, in the morning, I have the snack of choice (again, currently cashews) before I get up. Usually within about 2 mins of opening my eyes.

O.k, so do you keep snacks in your bedside draw? Never thought of that before as afraid I might start helping myself whilst asleep! I meant to ask before, are you low carbing in the day?

 

[Brunneria]

O.k, so do you keep snacks in your bedside draw? Never thought of that before as afraid I might start helping myself whilst asleep! I meant to ask before, are you low carbing in the day?

Yup, bag of nuts on bedside table.

We have gone from Mr B's complaints about my cheesy breath, to balefull glares at the cellophane rustling.

I tell him it is all in the interests of science.

 

[Tweetypie]

Hi, just re-read this post, and maybe the problem is making your snack as tea...

Presumably you are moving about (bathroom, kitchen, stairs?) in order to get the tea?
That would be too much activity for me. My liver dump seems to be on a hair trigger. On a morning when I take the dog downstairs to widdle, then return to bed for the snack, my dawn phen is significantly higher than if I snack before dog widdling.

And yes, I'm low carbing.

Thanks! Yes, this could be the problem. Actually, I forgot to say, I actually made hubby his sarnies before testing or having tea - doh! Think I might be getting there.............
Next trial will be some nuts on waking (so to speak), failing that, I'll be getting a teas maid!

 

[sunspots]

This is fascinating. I only found it because, unusually, I had a late breakfast today and went from 6.9 waking to 8.0 within an hour. i shall try nuts or something by the bed as long as I can keep them out of reach of the dog - he's half labrador, need I say more.

 

[Debmcgee]

Thanks! Yes, this could be the problem. Actually, I forgot to say, I actually made hubby his sarnies before testing or having tea - doh! Think I might be getting there.............
Next trial will be some nuts on waking (so to speak), failing that, I'll be getting a teas maid!

Newbie question: to test fasting BG are we supposed to do it as soon as we get out of bed?

I get everyone else in the house sorted before I test so could be approx 20-30 mins after waking. Is this wrong?!

X


Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

Diagnosed prediabetic Easter 2014. Just left to get on with it, no guidance or help from GP. Every day I'm learning something new.

 

[Bluetit1802]

No way is wrong Deb. Why not experiment. Test immediately on waking then again after your family is sorted but before you eat or drink. See what the difference is.
Remember though that when you go to the docs for your fasting test you will have done lots of things since getting up, not least getting to the surgery!
It really doesn't matter, as long as you are consistent - you are looking for trends.