Attended my Desmond course today.

[jim1951]

Had my long awaited course today, part 1 of 2.

I didn't learn anything I didn't already know from this site. There were 10 of us and apart from one other person who was also clued up, the others were certainly beginners.

Two of us had been lucky enough to have been given meters at GP surgery, but I was very surprised at the end when the nurse running the course gave the other 8 people a meter and strips to take away. Now the cynic in me suggests these are provided by the manufacturer's rep to the nurse and when these 8 people approach their respective surgeries for some more strips they will be out of luck, I hope I am wrong.

I didn't know what stance to take on low carbing. I knew the dietician would have to tow the party line, plus I didn't want to confuse the "beginners". I did gently challenge the dietician in open session when she was saying that pots/rice/bread/pasta was okay to eat. She had just said to keep sugar intake low, I asked her to confirm that the items she was saying were okay would turn to sugar. She hesitated and said if you ate large portions your levels would rise. I asked if she could confirm then that if you had low portions then your levels would fall. She said carbs affect people differently, that is certainly true, but it was avoiding the question.

She spoke to me at the end and asked if I was on a low carb diet, I said I was, she asked if I knew what the long term effects of that would be on my vital organs? I said no, but I knew what the long term effects on my sugar levels would be if I had a high carb diet.

This is certainly an area where the NHS has to modify some of the advice it is giving out.

I await session 2 with great interest

jim

 

[Brunneria]

Had my long awaited course today, part 1 of 2.

I didn't learn anything I didn't already know from this site. There were 10 of us and apart from one other person who was also clued up, the others were certainly beginners.

Two of us had been lucky enough to have been given meters at GP surgery, but I was very surprised at the end when the nurse running the course gave the other 8 people a meter and strips to take away. Now the cynic in me suggests these are provided by the manufacturer's rep to the nurse and when these 8 people approach their respective surgeries for some more strips they will be out of luck, I hope I am wrong.

I didn't know what stance to take on low carbing. I knew the dietician would have to tow the party line, plus I didn't want to confuse the "beginners". I did gently challenge the dietician in open session when she was saying that pots/rice/bread/pasta was okay to eat. She had just said to keep sugar intake low, I asked her to confirm that the items she was saying were okay would turn to sugar. She hesitated and said if you ate large portions your levels would rise. I asked if she could confirm then that if you had low portions then your levels would fall. She said carbs affect people differently, that is certainly true, but it was avoiding the question.

She spoke to me at the end and asked if I was on a low carb diet, I said I was, she asked if I knew what the long term effects of that would be on my vital organs? I said no, but I knew what the long term effects on my sugar levels would be if I had a high carb diet.

This is certainly an area where the NHS has to modify some of the advice it is giving out.

I await session 2 with great interest

jim

May I gently suggest that, by your next session, you research 'the longterm effects of a low carb diet on the internal organs'.

And print off your findings.

And give them to her.

I think she may be surprised.

 

[KathrynB]

Jim I had a similar experience on a Diabetes Expert course. I was told by the nurse that I should be eating 230g carbs a day. I told her I eat low carb and she was very disapproving! When I told her my last Hb was 42 she was stunned. One lady there is T2 and on insulin. She said she regularly has hypos and has to eat white bread to feel better. I'd think she should see about having her dosage adjusted as it sounds like she is having too much insulin but the nurse told her to eat lots of carb! I know diabetes nurses have to follow the official "lots of carbs, take your meds" line, but I would love to know what they really think when they see the evidence that low carb works

 

[AndBreathe]

May I gently suggest that, by your next session, you research 'the longterm effects of a low carb diet on the internal organs'.

And print off your findings.

And give them to her.

I think she may be surprised.

Interestingly, @Southport GP recently (relatively) reported some excitement about the impact of Low Carb on fatty liver, and that he can predict improved numbers in Low Carb compliant patients. If you search out his postings (I can't recall if this had a new thread of it's own), you'll find it.

 

[JontyW]

Jim,

You might like to look at this article ..."Why Is the Low-Carb Diet Bad for You?". The key point is in the next to last paragraph entitled .."
"Long-Term Effects
Another concern is that long-term studies of low-carb diets suggest they may increase health risks. Low-carb diets often lead to higher saturated fat and cholesterol consumption, and over long periods of time this can lead to heart disease and other cardiovascular problems."

The answer appears to ensure that, if on a low carb diet, then you have a 'balanced' nutritional diet in terms of fats and proteins.

http://getfit.jillianmichaels.com/lowcarb-diet-bad-you-1313.html

I've had T1 diabetes for 45 years, and in the last few years have reduced by daily carbs from about 150g/day down to ~100g/day and have achieved the lowest HbA1cs I have ever had at around 6.5%. But I eat sensibly and am happy with both my diet and blood glucose control. I think the NHS need to drastically change their strategy regarding low carbs and assisting T2s to lose weight. Best of luck ..... JontyW

 

[jim1951]

Thanks for the replies everyone, some really interesting material contained in the links.

I do struggle with the dynamics of my personal way forward.

Since official diagnosis 3 months ago I have been low carbing. Because I have wanted to lose weight I have not gone high fat and restricted calories to 50% of norm. Naturally I have lost weight, 28lbs to date and my BS numbers are really good. My concern is that my numbers are partially good because of restrictive diet?

I am now nearly at my ideal weight and whereas I have been quite draconian in my diet, I will now start to experiment to see what I can add back in. I will not continue low carb and would like to build up to 150g to 200g a day (I am currently averaging 50g) and I would probably add a few fats in but not high fat.

I do wonder whether I am living in a fantasy world of hoping that with 100% calorie allowance and increased carbs, I can keep my HBA1C below 40?

 

[Bluetit1802]

Hi Jim,

It is a dilemma. I'm in a similar position, except I don't want to increase my carbs until my BS are a little lower. My last HbA1c was 46. I want it down to at least 41. But I have to add something back.

In your case, I think you could try adding a few extra carbs at a time, and be vigilant with your testing.

 

[douglas99]

I work on the old numbers, my Ha1BC is 5.3. Low GI, always when I can, but always calorie controlled, allowing for the exercise I'm doing, but my lifestyle means I can't pick and choose what I eat, so I have to expect, and allow for that some times it's going to be carb heavy. Exercise sems to be the key issue for me, along with balancing calories in and calories out.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I work on the old numbers, my Ha1BC is 5.3. Low GI, always when I can, but always calorie controlled, allowing for the exercise I'm doing, but my lifestyle means I can't pick and choose what I eat, so I have to expect, and allow for that some times it's going to be carb heavy. Exercise sems to be the key issue for me, along with balancing calories in and calories out.

Your old money Hba1c of 5.3% equates to 34 in new money, or 5.9mmol/l. Whatever you are doing clearly works for you, Douglas.
Adding extra calories without extra carbs isn't easy unless you are prepared to add extra fats or can actually manage extra protein. I eat as much protein in my meals as I can physically eat, and am very reluctant to eat more fat. very difficult.

 

[douglas99]

Your old money Hba1c of 5.3% equates to 34 in new money, or 5.9mmol/l. Whatever you are doing clearly works for you, Douglas.
Adding extra calories without extra carbs isn't easy unless you are prepared to add extra fats or can actually manage extra protein. I eat as much protein in my meals as I can physically eat, and am very reluctant to eat more fat. very difficult.

I've found if I avoid carbs, I become unresponsive, and suffer accordingly.

But if I eat carbs as the 'extra' calories, and do it regularly, I manage to cope.

I do exercise quite quickly after the intake though, so maybe that helps.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I've found if I avoid carbs, I become unresponsive, and suffer accordingly.

But if I eat carbs as the 'extra' calories, and do it regularly, I manage to cope.

I do exercise quite quickly after the intake though, so maybe that helps.

@Andrew Colvin has got his levels down to non-diabetic levels and then began adding back carbs, quite a lot to be honest. It doesn't seem to affect his levels, but like you, he does exercise a lot.

 

[Katchoo]

Two of us had been lucky enough to have been given meters at GP surgery, but I was very surprised at the end when the nurse running the course gave the other 8 people a meter and strips to take away. Now the cynic in me suggests these are provided by the manufacturer's rep to the nurse and when these 8 people approach their respective surgeries for some more strips they will be out of luck, I hope I am wrong.

I rather suspect you're right about the meters. The Desmond course I attended certainly didn't hand them out, in fact they told us we don't need to test... so unless something's changed since March their policy doesn't seem to be handing freebies out to Type 2 sufferers.

I must have been lucky with the dietician on our course though, as she was quite informative about carbs (for those that hadn't done any research) and that cutting them down would help a lot. She still dragged out the portion plate though, but at least she didn't poo-poo low carb diets.

 

[jim1951]

I rather suspect you're right about the meters. The Desmond course I attended certainly didn't hand them out, in fact they told us we don't need to test... so unless something's changed since March their policy doesn't seem to be handing freebies out to Type 2 sufferers.

I must have been lucky with the dietician on our course though, as she was quite informative about carbs (for those that hadn't done any research) and that cutting them down would help a lot. She still dragged out the portion plate though, but at least she didn't poo-poo low carb diets.

from what I have read over the weeks on this forum it would appear that the Desmond courses around the country are variable in their approach.

jim

 

[Katchoo]

That's pretty frustrating. A course that's designed to help people with newly diagnosed diabetes should be standardised, whether we agree with it's contents or not. If I hadn't joined this forum when I was first diagnosed I wouldn't have the faintest idea about the benefits of testing, and testing is what helps me know I'm doing things right, alongside the fact that I've lost 2.5 stone..

 

[jim1951]

That's pretty frustrating. A course that's designed to help people with newly diagnosed diabetes should be standardised, whether we agree with it's contents or not. If I hadn't joined this forum when I was first diagnosed I wouldn't have the faintest idea about the benefits of testing, and testing is what helps me know I'm doing things right, alongside the fact that I've lost 2.5 stone..

the contents are standardised, the interpretation is variable. Whilst I accept no two courses will be the same at least the messages should agree.

jim

 

[Sancho panza]

That's pretty frustrating. A course that's designed to help people with newly diagnosed diabetes should be standardised, whether we agree with it's contents or not. If I hadn't joined this forum when I was first diagnosed I wouldn't have the faintest idea about the benefits of testing, and testing is what helps me know I'm doing things right, alongside the fact that I've lost 2.5 stone..

What's more frustrating for me is I was diagnosed in June given a prescription for Metformin and pretty much told to get on with it.
My Desmond course is in November six months after diagnosis.
If I hadn't have found this place I would have still been stumbling along blindly,

 

[jim1951]

What's more frustrating for me is I was diagnosed in June given a prescription for Metformin and pretty much told to get on with it.
My Desmond course is in November six months after diagnosis.
If I hadn't have found this place I would have still been stumbling along blindly,

Six months is a long time. I had to wait 3 months but another participant on the course had only been diagnosed a few days earlier, it is luck of the draw and timing.

jim

 

[andcol]

I got on one fast but rang up and booked and was willing to travel. The ones in my area where booked up for 6 months - must live in a hot spot!

 

[twinny1974]

Hi

I was diagnosed Feb 13 and I am still on the waiting list for my Desmond course have chased with no luck was told there are lots of people on the list and to wait my turn

 

[KathrynB]

I waited 9 years for mine To be fair though, I don't think they'd been invented when I was diagnosed