Type 1: Prescription fine

[Spiker]

Yes if someone does know that they have a card that has expired, but they continue to tick Box E, then that is technically Fraud. It is only technically not Fraud if someone did not know that their card had expired at the time that they ticked Box E.
i.e. in the former case it is not possible to claim no wrongdoing without lying, but in the latter case it is possible to claim no wrongdoing ..... "if you can show no wrongdoing" is the wording the NHS BSA uses on their website. .

Brian are you suggesting that people avoid checking the expiry date on their card, so that they can deflect a charge of fraud?

If that's not what you are suggesting, then it just seems like a restatement of the obvious.

 

[Spiker]

Ok so what are you actually suggesting in relation to people not knowing the expiry dates of their cards? It doesn't seem to me that people can take any useful action in relation to your observation. Other than deliberately avoid checking their card expiry date.

 

[KK1]

Received a letter from the BSA Chief Exec today saying that he has decided to waive the penalty charge using the discretion within his remit. I still have to pay the £16 prescription charge but the penalty charge is waived. I have gone through my notes and his previous letter said "I would like to reiterate that these regulations do not allow the NHSBSA to exercise discretion or take personal circumstances into account when requesting that patients pay for prescriptions that were incorrectly claimed for free of charge." i had assumed that what he was saying previously was that the BSA had no discretion on any of the charges. I suspect that is what he wanted me to think. I suspect he was being deliberately misleading! He has not given any reason for changing his position on my case, but this might be pressure from whitehall. I am still pursuing a complaint with the Health Service Ombudsmen.

 

[Spiker]

Received a letter from the BSA Chief Exec today saying that he has decided to waive the penalty charge using the discretion within his remit. I still have to pay the £16 prescription charge but the penalty charge is waived. I have gone through my notes and his previous letter said "I would like to reiterate that these regulations do not allow the NHSBSA to exercise discretion or take personal circumstances into account when requesting that patients pay for prescriptions that were incorrectly claimed for free of charge." i had assumed that what he was saying previously was that the BSA had no discretion on any of the charges. I suspect that is what he wanted me to think. I suspect he was being deliberately misleading! He has not given any reason for changing his position on my case, but this might be pressure from whitehall. I am still pursuing a complaint with the Health Service Ombudsmen.

Interesting. So the interpretation that gives him some wiggle room would be "no discretion on the prescription charge, but discretion exists on the penalty charge".

 

[Princesnikki]

This is disgusting! Why don't they make us indefinitely exempt as they is no way we are ever going to be with out diabetes my card has ran out and I only no that coz I checked it after reading this I was diagnosed 13 years ago and have never been asked for it x

 

[KK1]

Interesting. So the interpretation that gives him some wiggle room would be "no discretion on the prescription charge, but discretion exists on the penalty charge".

Exactly. Broadcaster Sybil Ruscoe put in an FOI on the number of penalty charge notices issued over the last 4 months and the figure given was 64,144. This equates to at least £3 million in fines, probably nearer £6 million. The BSA cant say how many of these are diabetics, but wow what a great new way of making money. No wonder the Chief Exec got such a pay rise.

 

[CollieBoy]

Exactly. Broadcaster Sybil Ruscoe put in an FOI on the number of penalty charge notices issued over the last 4 months and the figure given was 64,144. <snip>This equates to at least £3 million in fines, probably nearer £6 million. The BSA cant say how many of these are diabetics, <snip..

i hate to defend the BSA, but it could be hard to identify diabetics from their prescriptions if the only D item has a non D use!(Metformin can be for PCOS) or if there is no D prescription on a script.
So better procedure would have been;
IF <no exemption> and NOT <prevouslywarned> WARN
IF <no exemption> and <prevouslywarned> PENALTYCHARGE

 

[LittleGreyCat]

Don't know if this has already been mentioned, but I was told today at a DUK thrash that fines will be refunded if an up to date form is obtained.

There is a time limit on this concession.

 

[autoimmune chrissy]

Why dont they have a better system we should not have to mess about with cards were exempt,it should have a big red D stamped on the script at gps

 

[caretaker]

Even
the fact they have said no more fines and hopefully refunds for fines and prescriptions no dout it will drag on to after the next Election as MP's have another school holiday.
Do they get holiday pay ?
or. are they on zero hour contracts

 

[Chris1702]

Just to add to this, I have never had a certificate and just assumed that as the only reason for insulin was to treat diabetes there would be no need to get one. I have been T1 since 1983! No one has ever said a thing to me about this.
I suppose I will get one sorted now but this does seem like bureaucratic nonsense really and one of the many ways in which the NHS could save itself some money by reviewing processes.
For example when registering with a new GP I have to see the nurse before I then get to see the specialists at the hospital etc. The nurse often knows less than I do about T1 so why can't the GP just refer me directly? Sorry to derail the thread a bit but stuff like this annoys me

I was diagnosed two years ago but have just (two weeks ago) gone onto insulin - I have asked for a referal to specialists at our local diabetic clinic and the request has been refused several times. So I booked to see a private diabetic specialist consultant and paid the bill as my health is above everything else and I am now hoping I will start to feel better.
As I am a lay member on our CCG and a patient representative at Westminster I find it frustrating that someone who knows how the system works cannot get treatment for myself so I do sympathise with everyone else struggling.
Just to further comment my GP ordered my prescription and made an appointment with our DN who as soon as I walked in said she 'was not prescribing that medicine' and changed the prescription to one whose only function is to make you lose weight by constantly making you feel sick and on the prescription it stated 'not to be prescribed for weight loss'. It is not approved by NICE and has the possiblity of thyroid tumours.
I have been a member here for a couple of years and read occationally but I did not realise things had got so bad or good treatment was post code lottery - now I am on insulin I shall be engaging more with the forum - hope that's ok?

 

[donnellysdogs]

At least you are aware of steps occuring within CCG's etc... I belong to GP PPG and would never had insight of the pressures on GP's or the impact on Patients of things occurring if I wasn't.

Please keep joining in, singularly we can't change anything.

Together improvements can be made as this forum shows.

 

[msb03]

Its been a while since i posted here about my "fine" after fruitless attempts to get any sense out of NHSBSA I contacted my MP who had already had 2 similar cases sent to her, she wrote to the DOH and got a standard 2 page response that said tough in about 800 words!. She is not letting it stand and is continuing to pester them. I did pay a paltry £1 to avoid any surcharge and have heard nothing from the NHSBSA since

Having spent the evening catching up on the forum, some thirty odd pages, there seem to be a similar thread, there is no joined up system within the NHS to weed out the fraudulent claims or to share information across the various branches of it. I was diagnosed in 1988, I was issued a flimsy paper card back then giving me exemption for my medication. I've no idea if it had an expiry date on it and never bothered as my GP a man i respected and believed said i would be exempt from paying for my medication. Some 27 years later and having been seen by my clinic/specialist/doctor probably 5 times a year so about 135 time give or take and by my pharmacist once a month 324 times, never once i have ever been asked about my MEC, advised of any rule changes, or seen any posters advising me they has to be renewed. Obviously because i was not on the system in 2002 when the rules changed the NHSBSA never wrote to me to tell me i needed to renew my MEC

Once i became aware of the need for a replacement MEC, i got one straight away, I asked my pharmacist why they never asked for one, they said we have been giving your medication for the last 27 years, you are type 1 diabetic so we know you are exempt so we don't need to ask for one.

Common sense has just gone out of the window, I am sure if we were all advised that we need to renew our certificates in the first letter that was sent out rather than the very heavy handed "pay the fine you fraudster or you will be dammed for ever letter" and if we did not renew our certificates after the warning we would get fined, 99.9% of us would have done so straight away and none of us would have had the stress and worry which everyone on the forum seems to have had.

 

[niccolino]

I've been diagnosed as Type2 for around 5yrs. The information I was given in the form of a leaflet, when I was prescribed metformin last year, was that I'd be entitled to free prescriptions for 2 yrs, even if my circumstances changed and I didn't need the medication any more. I only took the metformin for a while because it made me ill (I have M.E. as well) so I had to stop it but my exemption card is still valid so I'm not sure if I'm still eligible for free prescriptions or not - I presume I am because of what it said in the leaflet about being entitled for 2yrs even if my circumstances change. (Previously I used to have a prepayment card as I have quite a few prescriptions because of the M.E. and other health probs). It's all a bit confusing.

 

[catherinecherub]

If you were issued with a penalty charge before 17 March 2015
The NHS BSA changed their system on 17 March 2015, to give people the chance to apply for a medical exemption certificate and have their penalty charge waived.

Before 17 March 2015 people were not automatically given the chance to contest their penalty charge. If you received a penalty charge before 17 March, the NHS BSA will write to you again and cancel your outstanding penalty charge, providing you already have a medical exemption certificate or apply for one within 60 days.

If you have already paid a penalty charge, it will be paid back to you providing you have a medical exemption certificate, or get one within 60 days of receiving the letter.

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/claiming-free-prescriptions

 

[donnellysdogs]

Any ideas how the NHS are going to tackle this issue on a longer term basis? I.e the GP's that disgnose have to inform the patients upon any diagnosis of an exempt illness?
Are they going to advertise the nedd for exemption certificates?
Can DUK etc give posters to Practices to print off and display?
Telling pharmacists they have to check and they will get penalised not the patients?

This situation isn't going to go away overnight. People still aren't aware... They will still get fined..

Are they now going to warn people by a letter first?

 

[robswife]

hi
Quick update ..... my husband got the £100 fine and £28(?) prescription charge notice, we wrote the emails and sent letters as advised near the beginning of this thread. He then paid £1 over the phone (also and idea i got from here!) hoping that something would happen before he had to pay the rest.

we havent really got anywhere so he called them today to pay another installment and when he explained to the lady on the phone she put him on hold then eventually came back and said she would waive the £100 fine if he paid for the prescription charge there and then. He agreed and paid, he has his exemption card now so hopefully thats the end of that!

Thank you to everyone who posted the sampl letters and links to the other things.... youve saved us £100

 

[noblehead]

Common sense has finally prevailed, read the following from DUK:

http://www.diabetes.org.uk/About_us/News/-Victory-in-campaign-to-cancel-diabetes-fines-/

 

[Scouser58]

Hello to all, I sign the back of my prescription and tick the box to say I receive the esa benefit, then I do the dob and ni bit then I sign to say I am the patient. I have never been told that I need an exemption certificate for my diabetes, and not with standing all the other medications for my different conditions. So if you are on benefits, do you still need an exemption certificate, when you don't pay for your medications anyway?. This is what I am puzzled about. Why have to eat humble pie, if you were never informed(I wasn't) the you didn't know. ttfn from Karen.

 

[Kazzy Lud]

I had my penalty waived but still had to pay the prescription charge. I told the GP the situation and they apologised and gave me an exemption form to fill in. I now have an exemption certificate (well, it's a card).
However, the problem still exists as before. My son, who will be 18 this month, was diagnosed T 1 3 weeks ago (not the best birthday present I could have given...) Having been through it all myself a year ago, I had to inform the surgery that he needed an exemption card. He now has one. It needs to be part of the procedure at diagnosis. It isn't happening yet in my experiences.